The Instigator
Koopin
Pro (for)
Winning
38 Points
The Contender
Shadowparadox
Con (against)
Losing
22 Points

Shadowparadox can not prove to me that he is black.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 9 votes the winner is...
Koopin
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/18/2009 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,933 times Debate No: 10519
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (47)
Votes (9)

 

Koopin

Pro

Shadowparadox can not prove to me that he is black.
Shadowparadox

Con

here is a picture of my father: http://www.brianbergerpr.com..., he is the man in the middle.
Debate Round No. 1
Koopin

Pro

Thank you for excepting this debate.
There are two things wrong with Shadowparadox's argument.

1. Pictures are not proof.
This picture could be anyone. If a picture is proof of what race someone is, then I could say that this person is my father:
http://onemanbandwidth.com...

2. Even if the picture is real, and the black man was his dad, his mother could be any color. Which would make him Bi-Racial.

I look forward to your response.

Sources:
(1). http://dictionary.reference.com...
Shadowparadox

Con

To refute my opponents argument(s)
1. My opponent states that pictures are not proof, but how else am I supposed to prove my race? make demeaning comments towards myself or call myself a name that I dare not say ever?
2. I am indeed multi-racial, but because my father is black, that makes me half-black. Because there is "black blood" in my system, that technically makes me black.
Debate Round No. 2
Koopin

Pro

Thank you for posting.

1. The Point of this debate was to prove to you that you can not prove to me that you are black. So far you have provided me with no solid proof. Why would you have to call yourself a bad name?

2. Please how me proof that one white + one black = one black. It does not make since.
If my dad is Native American, and my mother is Chinese, that does not make me Native American. My mother is black and my father is white. If someone looks at me they will not say, 'Look at that kid, he is white.'
But that is beside the point, you must still prove to me that you are black.

Audience, keep in mind that my opponent has admitted to being Biracial, which is not fully black.
Shadowparadox

Con

To refute my opponent's arguments:

1) Who said that 'one white + one black = one black'? I am simply stating that because My father is black, that makes me at least half-blac; The resolution states that I can not prove that I am black, not ONLY black. In addition, you have not stated your definition of 'black,' which may conflict with my definition. I would also like to say that I am MULTI-racial, not BI-racial.

Thank you for your time, and please vote CON.
Debate Round No. 3
47 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by nonentity 7 years ago
nonentity
"Sure, you could call that flower "Red" or "Pink" but then someone might think you're colourblind or illiterate."

Sorry, I meant to say "Red or *white"
Posted by nonentity 7 years ago
nonentity
Yeah like I said, it seems to be an American thing, where things are either black or white (I don't mean that literally or in terms of race, I mean "clear-cut"), and people want to rigidly define others for simplicity reasons. I guess that's the difference between the "American melting pot" and the "Canadian tossed salad". I am a Canadian citizen and I am Nigerian. It depends who I'm talking to. I travel to the U.S. at least once a year (this year, twice) and when people in the U.S. ask where I'm from I will say Canada. But when you date in Canada, or meet people in Canada, a common question to ask (along with your age and where you live) is where you're from, and in that case, I would say Nigeria. I'm not either or. I'm both. Nobody I know discards a part of their identity so callously lol even other races, if someone is Chinese and Korean they don't just call themselves "Chinese". "What's your nationality?" "Chinese and Korean". "What are you?" "Puerto Riqueno y Guatemalteco". "What are you?" "My mom is white and my dad is black". Not that hard to do lol.

I guess you're right in the sense that the resolution doesn't say "fully black", but at the same time, when people call themselves "black" when they are other ethnicities also, it is still not accurate. If you breed a red flower with a white flower, you are likely to get a pink flower and not either or. Sure, you could call that flower "Red" or "Pink" but then someone might think you're colourblind or illiterate.
Posted by feverish 7 years ago
feverish
Yeah Bob Marley's dad was a white Brit and while I agree that defining people by race is often inaccurate, I'm not sure defining them by nationality is necesarilly any better. For example if you become a Canadian citizen (if you're not already) then will you cease to be Nigerian?

If shadowparadox is mixed black and white then he is both. The resolution doesn't state "fully black" or "black and not any other ethnicity". It is of course a separate issue whether he could prove this.

I don't think him calling himself black automatically excludes him from the 'white race' unless he was to specify further. It may not be the whole truth but that doesn't make it untrue.

Thanks for explaining the marriage thing but I would similarly argue that divorced, separated or widowed people are indeed all single.
Posted by nonentity 7 years ago
nonentity
Well sure, if Bob Marley had one white parent then he would be mixed. I've never called Bob Marley "Black" and I wouldn't know if he had a white parent; I've only ever called him "Jamaican" because that's what he is. Like I said, it seems to be an American thing where people are defined by their race. Where I live, we're more likely to define someone by their nationality, which is accurate.

Exactly, you said it yourself, with gender you can be in both categories. That's exactly my point, you don't called a "he-she" a girl, and you don't call a "he-she" a boy, because simply labelling them in one category is not accurate. Same with race, if you're half black and half white, you're mixed. My point about categories of marriage is that there are two distinct categories: you are either married or not married. However, people identify themselves as also separated, divorced, or widowed, and not simply "not married". To all yourself "single" when you are any of those things is just not the whole story and therefore not accurate.

Mixed race people do belong to a race--mixed race? lol I don't get your point about "belongingness" here. If anything they should be INCLUDED in every race that they are, and simply calling them "black" would be EXCLUDING them from the white race. So NOT calling them mixed would be EXCLUSION.
Posted by feverish 7 years ago
feverish
TulleKrazy: "If your parent or grandparent is non-black, then that can be pin-pointed to say you are not fully black."

What does 'fully black' mean? Is a 'pure' Igbo Nigerian more 'fully black' than a 'pure' Somalian or a 'pure' Native Australian?

"It's not like these mixed race people are talking about one non-black ancestor wayyy down the line..."

Not sure what you mean here but would you have told Bob Marley (half white) and Malcolm X (quarter white) that they weren't black?

" you can't generalize "everyone on this planet".

This must be directed at R v L because I said "unless your using some racial purity criteria that would class MOST of the world as multi racial."

And it's not a matter of inclusion or exclusion. What's the problem in making a separate category? We make separate categories for gender, marital status, and a whole host of other things.

Whut? Gender? Do you mean He-Shes lol? They are generally regarded as both male AND female rather than neither anyway, not sure what you mean about marriage. My point was that telling a multi racial child they don't fit in or belong to any race can leave them feeling isolated, it is better to focus on the connections rather than the distinctions.

"mixed people here (in Toronto) tend to be PREFERRED to black people... There tends to be a preference here for light skin, so if there's any discrimination, it's against the darker people anyway."

I'm aware of the reality of lighter complexions being preferred but anyone racist enough to regard a mixed race person as better than a black person will still regard them as inferior to white people. There can also be a backlash effect in some communities with lighter skinned people being regarded by other black folks as (to use hideous outdated epithets) "uppity, high yellow, house slave, Uncle Tom" etc.
Posted by Right-vs-Left 7 years ago
Right-vs-Left
Very, I am surprised this has just been made aware to you. The way most conduct their arguments here is far more firce then what I am use to. I joined thinking I stood a fair chance but that was until I noticed how far out of my league I was. My poin with "purity" is simply this. Has been known to happen that familes whom have had nothing but "white" ancestors for decades but oddly enough a lady would given birth to a "black" baby. This I am guessing is due to ressessive traits. That was my argument on that matter. Further more I said in my first comment dealing with the nonpurity that "Tis rarely any "purity" when speaking of race." My apologies for not stating it in a manner that better suits my original statment. I was hoping that perhaps you had read it.
Posted by Koopin 7 years ago
Koopin
dude, I am not mocking you, its a joke? are you new here?
Posted by Right-vs-Left 7 years ago
Right-vs-Left
I am not even aware of what that is. Perhaps I should look into it. However I am sure you are mocking me in some form of fashion so I will take it into consideration. Unless that is, you would like to take the time to explain it to me.
Posted by Koopin 7 years ago
Koopin
I think Right-vs-Left has been watching a little to much of the movie Imitation Of Life.
Posted by nonentity 7 years ago
nonentity
"Out of every being on this planet there is no purity. We are all mixed through our ansestors."

Umm

If your parent or grandparent is non-black, then that can be pin-pointed to say you are not fully black. It's not like these mixed race people are talking about one non-black ancestor wayyy down the line... As far as I know, I am not mixed anywhere throughout my ancestry. I was born in Nigeria, both parents were born there, all their parents were born there, and so on and so forth. So you can't generalize "everyone on this planet".

And it's not a matter of inclusion or exclusion. What's the problem in making a separate category? We make separate categories for gender, marital status, and a whole host of other things. I wouldn't call it a "black power" thing either, in fact, mixed people here (in Toronto) tend to be PREFERRED to black people... There tends to be a preference here for light skin, so if there's any discrimination, it's against the darker people anyway.
9 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Vote Placed by Pikachu 7 years ago
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