The Instigator
MasturDbtor
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
dappleshade
Con (against)
Winning
22 Points

Shaming Should Be Used To Prevent Suicide

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision - Required
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/30/2011 Category: Society
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,817 times Debate No: 18462
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (5)

 

MasturDbtor

Pro

Suicide is ultimately a selfish act that hurts one's loved ones. People who commit suicide often feel lonely and unloved. This shows that these people commit suicide with the motivation of getting more love and attention when dead.

Society could decrease the risk of suicide by making it abundantly clear that it considers suicide to be a shame and does not feel sympathy or sorrow for the "suffering" of suicide so-called 'victims'.

When someone commits suicide a mass assembly should be held where a speaker gives a lecture on suicide and how it impacts society. Then the people who loved the suicider should each get a chance to speak. They can cry if they want over THEIR personal loss but need to make it clear that it is the fault of the suicider and that they are disappointed and upset at that decision and that the tears are being shed from the loss of companionship not for any 'suffering' the suicider was going through.

The assembly should also stress that while suicide is a shame there is no shame in getting help dealing with suicidal thoughts. Speakers who had thought about suicide and decided not to do it should talk about their experiences and stress that suicide is always a choice BUT it is NEVER the right choice so don't commit suicide.

A person who commits suicide should have their tombstone labeled "Suicide" and then "This man/woman hurt (names of close friends and family) with his/her choice to take his/her life."

Currently the way the media handles suicide is to paint the people who committed suicide as poor victims of taunting, bullying, or depression, removing all responsibility from the person who actually committed suicide. The message that sends is that if you face social rejection or are depressed that you have no choice and must commit suicide. This decreases the chance that a person about to commit suicide is going to stop themselves and get help.

Suicide in society today also has a romantic dimension to it, especially with more and more gay teenage suicides reported in the media. Many teenage drama stories also romanticize suicide. This cultural "romanticization" can't be stopped with censorship. That would infringe on the 1st amendment. But it can be stopped by stressing that the suicider is the main culprit, the one responsible for his/her actions and that suicide is not in any way romantic or otherwise desireable.

Stressing that suicide hurts society could also be a big help in stopping people from committing suicide out of feelings of "doing wrong", because the assemblies would stress that even if you had done something wrong or as in the case of gay people growing up in homophobic families something that you are only told is wrong, that regardless suicide is worse.
dappleshade

Con

The problem with Pro’s contention, though I see where they are going in theory, is that suicide most often happens as a result of depression (1). Depression in turn is often caused or made worse by a sense of self-hate, guilt and above all, shame.

It would be easy to paint suicide as self-obsessed, or inconsiderate. It would not necessarily be true. Let us begin as follows. My opponent has not considered assisted suicide in case of terminal or chronic illness and suffering. Often, in such cases, families are desperate to alleviate the suffering. Is there shame in such cases? It’s a difficult case, but I would say not, especially if the family is informed and supports the decision. Few of us would want to watch a loved one linger on in intense pain.

I put forward the argument instead that suicide with depression as a reason is an attempt at an identical ‘self-medication’ with the intent of alleviating emotional pain. The reason it is so ill-advised is because the act of suicide is not truly the only solution to extreme, chronic, prolonged emotional pain. The alternatives are prolonged therapy, and the emotional comfort, support and love of those around them.

Mental illness is miserable not least because it isn’t easily visible on the outside. If you have a broken leg, anyone with compassion can see that it hurts, it isn’t going to go away without medical assistance and that you need treatment. If you’re crying, the same person may not see that there is any difference between the tears that represent ordinary sadness and that can be fixed by a weepy movie with friends, and the all-encompassing, inescapable pain that is depression and which needs to be treated by a therapist and/or anti-depressants. Few people will realise that someone has an actual illness, a dopamine imbalance in the brain triggered by stress, until it is too late (1) (2). Another reason for suicide, albeit less common, is the 'cry for help' that goes too far. Someone trying to demonstrate the magnitude of emotional pain may, as described in the sources mentioned, 'swallows a bottle of Tylenol—not realizing that in high enough doses Tylenol causes irreversible liver damage.'

Now, I agree with my opponent completely that it is never the right choice to commit suicide, excepting perhaps in the case of terminal or chronic illness with the intent of limiting the pain experienced by the self and by loved ones. (I tend to believe that it is the glamorising of death, not suicide, that is the problem. Few people have seen a dead body, or watched someone die; the ‘movie death’ means that too many think that death is a tragically limp pose with pallid make-up where you get magically revived and cooed over at the last minute, and don’t really understand the irrevocable finality of it, or the horror. But I digress.)

If someone is inclined to commit suicide through depression, they often do think of family and friends. First of all, this makes them feel more inclined, not less, to commit suicide. They feel ashamed of letting down and hurting their families, and yet at the same time aware of the immense, inescapable, relentless pain. They will write notes asking forgiveness, hoping their families ‘will understand’ and grant them absolution (3). This would be because they are pleading with their families to recognise the great duress they were under and have the sympathy and mercy to understand that their loved one needed to be relieved of the emotional pain.

Consider it like this; they consider themselves to have intense pain that cannot be cured. They don’t want to hurt their families, but they feel they have no choice. Since they are suffering, they are offering themselves a kind of euthanasia, and hoping their families will understand afterwards how desperately their euthanasia was needed. Accept, in short, that they needed to ‘put themselves out of their misery’. It can even be described as ‘problem-solving action’ (4). Desperate, but not necessarily thoughtless. Telling them that what they are contemplating doing will hurt other people will not make them feel less emotional pain. So it won’t stop them from committing suicide. If you feel there is no other escape, and if you know the pain will be gone even if you will be condemned after you die the condemnation will be of little consequence.

Next, my opponent has failed to consider scenarios in which the suicide either had no friends or family, as is often the case in the elderly suicide, the most common type of suicide (5); or whose families were cruel, abusive or otherwise contributed to their misery. If such people are not specifically going to be grieved by anyone, they will feel that they are harming no one by their deaths. A lot of people feel that their loved ones either ‘don’t care’, or ‘don’t understand’. The latter is often true, with people failing to see the pain their loved one is in until too late.

Finally, emotional support. Someone suicidal needs to be told, ultimately, that things can get better and will get better. If, however, society is conditioned to condemn the suicide, I cannot see that it would not also reach to condemn the person seriously contemplating it, despite Pro’s assertion that one could support the suicidal and condemn the person who goes through with it. Few people offer emotional support to the would-be paedophile, or the would-be murderer. Why does Pro believe that the outright condemnation of the suicide would be different? Pro of course has not addressed here the attempted suicide, someone who made a serious attempt on their life but failed. What will be their fate, if having failed, they are held in contempt for having tried, rather than supported and shown that they have other options?

Ultimately, no one will never get more love and attention when dead; because they are dead. For Pro to mistake the motivation ‘escape pain’ with ‘get attention’ is understandable in the media climate, but certainly not true.

(1) http://www.psychologytoday.com...
(2) http://www.samaritans.org...
(3) http://en.wikipedia.org...
(4) http://www.psychologytoday.com...
(5) http://www.befrienders.org...;

Debate Round No. 1
MasturDbtor

Pro

MasturDbtor forfeited this round.
dappleshade

Con

Well, I feel I have nothing further to add since my opponent forfeited the previous round.
Debate Round No. 2
MasturDbtor

Pro

MasturDbtor forfeited this round.
dappleshade

Con

To conclude, then. Using shame as a weapon is rarely a wise plan, and usually backfires into defensiveness or worsening the problem in some other way. Since the primary cause behind suicide is depression and feelings of shame and inferiority are involved there, the threat of shame will either fail to be significant or merely deepen the misery. Pro fails to consider the attempted suicide or suicide in the elderly. In short, shaming is not a sensible plan to deal with suicidal people or to dishonour the dead, however ill-advised their attempts were.
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by erijoro 2 years ago
erijoro
I honest to God don't think it's possible for you to be any more ignorant. Lol. Mind = blown. My God.
Posted by nonentity 5 years ago
nonentity
"A person who commits suicide should have their tombstone labeled "Suicide" and then "This man/woman hurt (names of close friends and family) with his/her choice to take his/her life.""

LMAO. I hope someone interesting takes this.
Posted by 1stLordofTheVenerability 5 years ago
1stLordofTheVenerability
I tend to agree, Mastur. If suicide wasn't "condoned", then the rates wouldn't be increasing.
Posted by phantom 5 years ago
phantom
Sorry that forfeit was on purpose. I misread the opening round. I thought you were arguing for something else.
Posted by MasturDbtor 5 years ago
MasturDbtor
It is. But I removed some letters to make it look like masturbater at first glance.
Posted by phantom 5 years ago
phantom
Oh so it's not supposed to be master debater?
Posted by MasturDbtor 5 years ago
MasturDbtor
LOL

That was the idea.
Posted by phantom 5 years ago
phantom
Lol when I first read your name I didn't notice the d in it so it looked like masturbater :D

Sorry of topic. Looking forward to the debate :)
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by Maikuru 5 years ago
Maikuru
MasturDbtordappleshadeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Con's take on suicide, as well as the potentially damaging role of shaming, was much more accurate and detailed.
Vote Placed by kohai 5 years ago
kohai
MasturDbtordappleshadeTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Ff
Vote Placed by Man-is-good 5 years ago
Man-is-good
MasturDbtordappleshadeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Con, among other contentions, showed the flaws in MasturDbtor's case: she noted that Pro never considered specific scenarios where the suicidal person did NOT have a family or one that was kind and emotionally supportive and made a fairly-strong case showing that emotional support was a better tool to prevent suicide...
Vote Placed by 000ike 5 years ago
000ike
MasturDbtordappleshadeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: There was a far stronger case from CON.
Vote Placed by F-16_Fighting_Falcon 5 years ago
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
MasturDbtordappleshadeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: While Con doesn't directly address Pro's points, she provides a better counterplan in order to prevent suicide and shows how it is more effective. Pro was unable to respond. The word "should" in the resolution indicates an ideal scenario and Con shows why her scenario is more ideal and should be followed. Pro's arguments were unorthodox and interesting and I would have liked to have seen a completed debate.