The Instigator
ASB
Pro (for)
Winning
35 Points
The Contender
ollie342
Con (against)
Losing
7 Points

Shaq was Batman, Kobe was Robin, if the Kobe now replaced the Kobe then this would still be the case

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
ASB
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/4/2011 Category: Sports
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,620 times Debate No: 14251
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
Votes (6)

 

ASB

Pro

Everyone knows that Kobe Bryant is he greatest player of all-time right... so we know that he is not. Shaq did not need Kobe to win yet Kobe needed Shaq to win.
If I remember correctly the saying was let Kobe get his and worry about guarding Shaq. This was said because Kobe then like now tends to over shoot to the point were he has to rely on his team to get points rather than him giving his team mates a chance. One playoff game where Kobe lost trying to get his team mates more involved, reporters asked Kobe why he decided to pass the ball and cause his team to lose rather than shoot as he was doing in the first half. This guy not word for word basically replied by saying that his coach told him that he was not passing the ball enough. Kobe decided to pass himself into a loss eventually getting his team eliminated from the playoffs. Shaq was so hard to stop. Game footage and stats will prove this point that Shaq was more efficient than Kobe ever will be.

My opponent will give you some facts by saying that Shaq never won before he had Kobe or that Kobe won championships without Shaq. But my opponent will just seem to forget that Lamar Odom, Gasol, and just recently Artest were playing for this team. These people for their teams before the Lakers were the go to people for offensive production... Odom and Brand for the Clippers, Artest for the Kings, and Gasol for the Grizzlies.

Shaq only seemed to have had Dwayne wade on his team as they won a title after he played for "kobe Bryant's team"

Kobe's dependency on others:
As of now it still seems that Kobe needs his team more than his team needs him...
before getting his pieces to win a championship in recent history he was planning on jumping ship, because he never had that cushion to fall back on since Shaq left. It just seemed that when this Lakers team added Gasol and then Artest they started winning. On game 7 of the NBA Finals Kobe just seemed to disappear as the Lakers found some way to win. Only because of Perkins' injury and the rebounding down low from the Lakers helped them win game 7.
ollie342

Con

Michael Jordan is better.
Debate Round No. 1
ASB

Pro

well i never said anything about Jordan... The question is that do you think that Shaq was the driver and that Kobe was along for the ride?

If you agree then I do not see a reason this contest should go on. Your obviously a Kobe hater, just like me.
ollie342

Con

I did not say that I agree. Please do not put words into my mouth. This is a debate not some weird gay witch hunt.
Debate Round No. 2
ASB

Pro

Okay then go ahead and state your case as to why Kobe was more valuable than Shaq
ollie342

Con

He scored more, played guard, a much more valuable position, and led the offense as a team leader. He also has more rings than LeBron and also Michael Jordan is not better than Landry Fields
Debate Round No. 3
ASB

Pro

Shaq played on the Cavs for one season. And LeBron James never had a dominant center like Kobe had or has now.
James is also a forward which contradicts your argument.

This man says that the guard position is a more valuable position than a center. When in actuality rebounds help to win games more than assists do.

But since Kobe is not known for his assists you say that he still ran the game.
So tell me this since Kobe never was asked to play point guard for a season, so how did he run the offense.

Kobe Bryant shot a better percentage with Shaq on his team than with Shaq not on his team. This is a sign of dependency. When Shaq left, Kobe never had that security blanket.

Dwayne Wade had a chance to experience that blanket as he won an NBA title with Shaq who was averaging 20ppg and 10rpg.

The guards with the most assists in the league do not win championships. They win all-star votes.
Shooting guards who try to win all by themselves do the same.

If we take a look into recent history.
The only guard that was a leader on his team who has won the nba finals consistently without a big man was Michael Jordan who is considered to be the greatest basketball player of all time.

The Celtics with Bird and McHale won without guards

The Lakers with Jabbar as their best player won with Magic, but Jabbar was definitely the one who made the greatest impact. He is the all-time leading scorer.

The Spurs won with Duncan as the best player along with Robinson.

All of these players scored and grabbed rebounds they were more essential to their team than Kobe is to the Lakers.
ollie342

Con

I'm not talking abou them, I'm talking about Shaq. Kobe led his team, dummy. Better luck next time on your debates. Don't mess with basketball legends like that or LeBron might just make a commercial about you.
~BOOM HEADSHOT~
Debate Round No. 4
ASB

Pro

Head shot??? this is not counter-strike, while O'Neal and Kobe where on the same team, O'Neal won an MVP award, Kobe did not win once.

Shaq won all three NBA Finals MVP's when Kobe won none on same the team. Now that is a head shot.

I started this debate. So follow my topic statement. And yes my debate is based on comparing Kobe and Shaq.
Shaq lead his team to victory.

Listing other big men who lead their team to victory like Jabbar, McHale, Bird, Robinson, Duncan who won an MVP and 3 Finals MVP's secures my argument by saying that big men are more valuable than guards.

Shaq contributed more to the team when he was there.
If Kobe was the leader... what was he the leader of... not contributing the most.

Kobe was the leader when Shaq left.

Kobe Bryant was a failure in leading a team. Instead of him winning he wanted out of Los Angeles.
So on top of Odom, they gave him Gasol, and Artest.

All three of those players were the best players for their team that they once were on.

Now Kobe is as happy as ever in kissing every one's behind... Mr. Humble.

Kobe is the master at behind kissing and corny sayings:
-Artest is the greatest defensive player in the league
-Gasol has that killer instinct (Gasol is scared to take the ball inside).
-Morrison can play... that guy can go once you give him the chance.
-I have studied black mamba's in the African deserts and I love their killer
instinct.
If people didn't know that Black Mamba was Kobe's nickname... you do now.

I'm sorry kissing every one's behind does not make a person a quality leader.
ollie342

Con

I'll talk about what I want. How old are you? Countersrike. wtf? CALL OF DUTY! zombiesssss
Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Alex 6 years ago
Alex
I would have taken this, i am dissapointed in how this turned out.
Posted by SuperRobotWars 6 years ago
SuperRobotWars
WTF . . . wtf . . .
Posted by Rednerrus 6 years ago
Rednerrus
one word: ShaqCantMakeFreeThrowsAndKobeisMoreClutch.
Posted by ASB 6 years ago
ASB
simple acceptance would do i would like a win right away... this challenge is for all the kobe lovers who think kobe bryant is an asset instead of a liability for the Lakers
Posted by Deistdude90 6 years ago
Deistdude90
Would you like the first round to counter right away or do you prefer a simple acceptance?
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by Blank 6 years ago
Blank
ASBollie342Tied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by Doulos1202 6 years ago
Doulos1202
ASBollie342Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by 513Creed 6 years ago
513Creed
ASBollie342Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by Deistdude90 6 years ago
Deistdude90
ASBollie342Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by marker 6 years ago
marker
ASBollie342Tied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by ollie342 6 years ago
ollie342
ASBollie342Tied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07