The Instigator
CJBPrewrather
Pro (for)
The Contender
KGlife
Con (against)

Should America ban the burqa?

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Debate Round Forfeited
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/15/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 month ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 247 times Debate No: 106741
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (8)
Votes (0)

 

CJBPrewrather

Pro

I say yes, because the burqa is a symbol of the enslavement of women. Wear a damn headscarf, but don't bring that misogyny in my back yard. Give me a burqa, and I will burn it.
KGlife

Con

Alright, I'll debate you here. I strongly disagree with this sort of ideology. To me, it is simply anti-Islamic discrimination disguised as having some sort of other cause. I'll assume this round is for acceptance only, so feel free to proceed with your argument.
Debate Round No. 1
CJBPrewrather

Pro

So you support Shariah law and the enslavement of women? As a woman, I don't want that in my country. You have the right to choose your holy book, but you don't have any right to a theocracy.
KGlife

Con

Woah, hold on there. Suggesting that I support the enslavement of women is a bit of a leap, don't you think? Please hear me out here. In this round, I will refute my opponent's claims and explain how the idea of banning burqas is nothing but Islamophobic propaganda. Just to make it clear, I don't think my opponent is Islamophobic. I think she has been misled, and doesn't understand the issue well enough. Anyways, I will now proceed to make my argument.

"So you support Shariah law and the enslavement of women? As a woman, I don't want that in my country. You have the right to choose your holy book, but you don't have any right to a theocracy."

Firstly, I am opposed to any religious law becoming the law of a nation on any condition. It is undemocratic, and a lot of religious ideas (from all religions) have plenty of outdated material. Additionally, of course I don't support the enslavement of women. Because I simply support a religion's freedom of expression, does not mean I am a sexist. Please get that into your head.

This round, I will explain the concerning correlation between Islamophobia and this burqa ban. The Newstatesman made a great article regarding how this ideology is wrong. To paraphrase this article, it makes the point that politicians who support this don't really care about women's rights; they are just trying to stir up Anti-Islamic sentiment.

'In Britain, where the ban is also being proposed by Ukip the services that actually protect women from domestic violence have been slashed over the past six years " the charity Refuge, the largest provider of domestic violence services in the UK, has seen a reduction in funding across 80% of its service contracts since 2011'

Strange how a party like Ukip, which has little to do with women's rights, is suddenly pro-feminist when it comes to an issue that may alienate Islam.

"In the wake of the Brexit vote, racist and Islamophobic attacks spiked in the UK. Hate crimes nationally shot up by 42% in the two weeks following the vote on 23 June. Hate crimes against Muslim women increased by over 300%, with visibly Muslim women experiencing 46% of all hate incidents. Instances of headscarves being ripped off have become so common that self-defense videos are being shared online, showing women how to deflect the "hijab grab". In this context, it is absurd to claim that politicians proposing a burqa ban care about protecting women: the move is transparently designed to placate the very people who are making Muslim women feel unsafe in their own communities."

Essentially, the stats prove the correlation between a burqa ban and Islamophobia. The very people who claim to be taking a stand against sexism also happen to be supported by people who are attacking Muslim women. A burqa ban has nothing to do with women's rights. It is simply a rope that conservative parties sling around centrists in an attempt to
get them to adopt Islamophobic views. If you believe that banning burqas in any way leads to female empowerment, you are sorely mistaken.

What it does do, is inspire anti-Islamic ideals and attacks, and is proven to lead to a larger amount of Muslim women murdered. A burqa ban is clearly not pro-feminist, so that is an invalid argument

"When politicians talk about banning the burqa, the public hears an attack on all Islamic headscarves " not everyone knows the difference between the hijab, the niqab and the burqa, and not everyone cares. The important thing is that seeing women dressed that way makes some people feel uncomfortable, and desperate politicians are casting about for ways to validate that discomfort."

This is another great point this article makes. A lot of people are simple-minded, and don't care to find the difference between various Islamic clothing. You and I may comprehend the difference, but I can guarantee you, a concerning amount of people do not. Think about this: You are an average citizen in the west. You are hearing about all of these terrible terrorist attacks. Meanwhile, people are actively attempting to convince you that Islam is bad.

Then, you hear that burqas are sexist. At this point, most people are aware that this is a Muslim article of clothing. They don't go out of their way to do research, they adopt anti-Islamic ideals. This is precisely what a burqa ban inspires.

Additionally, to say that a burqa is sexist is a subjective statement. A lot of Muslim women will wear one as an expression of religious faith or as a statement against governmental oppression. A lot of others believe it is a sexist symbol. Either way, no one is forcing you to wear one. Who is the average person to declare a Muslim woman's choice of attire is sexist and needs to be removed? You, specifically as a non-Muslim, are in no credible position to enforce a subjective statement, being 'Burqas are sexist' onto Muslims.

Another concerning link to Islamophobia is the fact that seemingly every politician who supports this happens to have coincidentally have an incentive to discriminate against Muslims. Fascist politicians have supporters who will cheer on Islamophobia regardless of logic. Islam is, therefore, an easy target for fascists. Angela Merkel (obviously not a fascist) was widely believed to be too soft on Islam. She needed to find a way to prove to everyone that she didn't sympathize with terrorism. Hence, she suddenly came out against burqas. In my country of Canada, Stephen Harper found that he was losing in the polls. The entire conservative party proceeded to go on a tirade against Islam.

With the 'Barbaric culture practices' hotline which was paired with the banning of the burka. I hope my opponent is able to see how the burka ban is simply another form of Islamophobia disguised as a pro-feminist statement.

Source:

https://www.newstatesman.com...
Debate Round No. 2
CJBPrewrather

Pro

I do not want female oppression in my back yard. Your misogyny is apparent.
KGlife

Con

CJB, please consider what I'm saying. If you're calling me a misogynist, that means you're calling all women who wear burqas misogynists as well. If you look into my debate history, I have defended feminism and actively berated Trump. Take my word here, I am not a misogynist. If you cannot list any examples of me saying anything sexist besides my defense of women having the right to wear burqas, I have no choice but to not take you seriously. Let's have a reasonable debate here, instead of resorting to undeserved name-calling.

For this round, I will further prove how the banning of the burqas is linked to Islamophobia, by naming many other comparable religious exercises. While many things I will list are clearly different from this issue, one cannot ethically oppose burqas but support these practices.

In certain branches of Judaism, women are not allowed being rabbis or canters. Sometimes, they're even excluded from reading the Torah. (which to you, is the old testament) Separate male and female seating is also mandatory in these branches of Judaism. However, I rarely see politicians criticizing Judaism in the same way as Islam in this regard. Additionally, women are not allowed to wear keepas or talliot. If you are against burqas, I would expect you to oppose this as well.

In Roman Catholicism, by your logic, perhaps one could argue that the attire of a nun is sexist. For example, the attire of a nun reinforces a gender stereotype that women are not allowed to be priests. What makes this any less sexist than a burqa?

In Hinduism, there are many questionable quotations.
"5.148. In childhood a female must be subject to her father, in youth to her husband, when her lord is dead to her sons; a woman must never be independent.
5.149. She must not seek to separate herself from her father, husband, or sons; by leaving them she would make both (her own and her husband"s) families contemptible.
5.150. She must always be cheerful, clever in (the management of her) household affairs, careful in cleaning her utensils, and economical in expenditure.
5.151. Him to whom her father may give her, or her brother with the father"s permission, she shall obey as long as he lives, and when he is dead, she must not insult (his memory).
5.152. For the sake of procuring good fortune to (brides), the recitation of benedictory texts (svastyayana), and the sacrifice to the Lord of creatures (Pragapati) are used at weddings; (but) the betrothal (by the father or guardian) is the cause of (the husband"s) dominion (over his wife).
5.154. Though destitute of virtue, or seeking pleasure (elsewhere), or devoid of good qualities, (yet) a husband must be constantly worshipped as a god by a faithful wife.
5.155. No sacrifice, no vow, no fast must be performed by women apart (from their husbands); if a wife obeys her husband, she will for that (reason alone) be exalted in heaven."

Should we ban Hindu attire because it reinforces these ideas?

Unfortunately, there is a never-ending list of questionable remarks made by each religion. We can go on and on. In Buddhism for example, we see things like this:

"It is better for you to have put your manhood in the mouth of a venomous snake or a pit of burning charcoal than a woman."

"Of all the scents that can enslave, none is more lethal than that of a woman. Of all the tastes that can enslave, none is more lethal than that of a woman. Of all the voices that can enslave, none is more lethal than that of a woman. Of all the caresses that can enslave, none is more lethal than that of a woman."

Now, when someone tells me burqas are connected to Misogyny, they are not wrong. What they are missing, however, is that almost every large religion has some form of sexism in it. The fact that people are singling out Islam is bigoted. You can disagree with Muslim women wearing burqas all you'd like. In the end, however, it is their culture and their choice.

Additionally, the idea that a burqa makes Islam any more sexist than other religions is ludicrous and objectively incorrect. I really hope you can have a change of heart here, CJB. I honestly believe you are just mistaken. I don't think you're a bad person at all.

Sources:

http://www.captaincynic.com...
https://qz.com...
Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by Zombieguy835 2 weeks ago
Zombieguy835
CJBP is ironically being misogynistic in this
Posted by J-A-Moore 1 month ago
J-A-Moore
Con is making a flimsy argument based on a lot of correlation. But at least con is making an argument.
Posted by J-A-Moore 1 month ago
J-A-Moore
Con is making a flimsy argument based on a lot of correlation. But at least con is making an argument.
Posted by missmedic 1 month ago
missmedic
Pro is arguing to remove the rights of women to choose, is that not misogynistic. Shouldn't we all have the right to choose?
Posted by MRAAJ.evil 1 month ago
MRAAJ.evil
CJBPrewrather, you should argue w/ Followerofchrist1955, the argument would be so hilarious, as nothing will be said apart from deflections and insults.
Posted by MRAAJ.evil 1 month ago
MRAAJ.evil
For Muslim its not a symbol of misogyny, its a symbol of culture, tradition and respect. For any non muslim, saying its should or should not be banned is ignorant, its not your place to say. Obviously there is misogyny tied to it. but misogyny is present regardless of clothing or not, ie that wont change things
Posted by Knaveslayer99 1 month ago
Knaveslayer99
It's already obvious whose going to win this debate also funny that Pro claims to be Socialist yet shows so much hatred of Islamic Fashion. The Burqa isn't just worn by women in Shia Islamic places but also in Sunni and in most cases the women do get to choose what to wear but they commit to their faith and wear the clothing of Islam. Well some do and some don't that is after all they are free to express themselves.
Posted by Absolutely_Fundamental 1 month ago
Absolutely_Fundamental
Misogyny - dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.

I don't understand why your only counter argument to the contender is that he or she is misogynist, I haven't seen them make a single statement that belittles or is prejudice to one gender or the other, they actually seem to remain quite impartial to their own beliefs and are arguing purely in fact, or what they believe it factual evidence. How are you supposed to have a debate if every time you make a factual claim you get slammed because you're views aren't seen as "politically correct" and to to be clear I believe the contenders views are politically correct, it only mentioned that for the sake of argument. If you didn't want to actually have a discussion about the topic perhaps you shouldn't try pass it off as a debate.

TLDR: don't let your feelings get in the way of someone's factual point's and try win via reason instead of throwing around words that don't make sense in this context.
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