The Instigator
Sniper1576
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
dcsee1
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Should Christians be murdered?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/20/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 716 times Debate No: 75557
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (19)
Votes (0)

 

Sniper1576

Con

Christians (Such as myself) shouldn't be persecuted (Murdered). Not whatsoever. Now, this is also my opinion from being a Christian myself. Christians are persecuted because of what we believe. Now... That just isn't right. We have helped all of you (Other people of different religions.) all throughout history... The Holocaust and other massacres and events all throughout history.
dcsee1

Pro

What if Jesus had not been murdered? Imagine the consequences?

Personally I hate persecution. I am persecution phobic. Even the slightest hint of abuse or ridicule towards me causes me immense distress. But the apostle Paul said everyone who wants to live a godly life will be persecuted (2 Timothy). Jesus said in this world you will have trouble but take heart because I have overcome the world (John). Hebrews 11 speaks of Christians who wanted persecution to get a better resurrection. All the disciples except John were martyred, even Paul who wrote the majority of the new testament.

There is a place for the murder of Christians in the plan of God.
Debate Round No. 1
Sniper1576

Con

God's plan does have a point where Christians are to murdered, but, if Jesus wasn't murdered.... Well, then none of our sins would be forgiven. But, Jesus' death has nothing to do with our persecution.... Really, we are persecuted just for having a relationship with our Lord and our Saviour.
dcsee1

Pro

There is an expression Jesus used: don't throw your pearls to pigs or what is sacred to you to dogs. This means that you should be discerning who you share your faith with. There is a place for defiant preaching in the face of death, then there is a place for not sharing your innermost relationship with God to others (i.e. pearls / what is sacred to you) unless it is safe. He says after that: because they will trample them under their feet and then turn and tare you to pieces. There is another verse that implies not even Jesus told people his innermost thoughts because he knew what people were like i.e. that people could not be trusted. (John 3.24-25) "But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all people. He did not need any testimony about mankind, for he knew what was in each person." Of course, Jesus later went on to preach in the face of death threats from the Pharisees, who eventually didn't just threat but carried through with the murder. In fact his first sermon, he enraged the religious folks in his synagogue so much that they tried to throw him off a cliff (Luke 4). Amazingly, it says he simply walked though the midst of the crowd and went his way. So god simply stopped it from happening because it wasn't time. Likewise later on he enraged another group of people so much with his preaching that they tried to seize him, but no one laid a hand on him because "his hour had not yet come" (John 7:30). So it seems God rescued Jesus again because it wasn't time for his death. Long story short, it seems that God will not permit you to die until it is time for you to die. My theory is that when it is your time to die, God will sometimes permit your murder so that you can pass the ultimate test of faith - faith in the face of death, and not renouncing your faith to save your earthly life. The book of Hebrews suggests that intentionally renouncing your faith will cost you your salvation (the unforgivable sin), but keeping it will see you in glory forever on the other side. Hence, like Jesus permitted Satan to enter Judas and betray him, I believe God permits the devil to use people to persecute and murder Christians for a purpose - the ultimate test of faith before glory.

(Hebrews 12:2) "fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God."
Debate Round No. 2
Sniper1576

Con

The first part of your statement is not correct... We aren't to limit who we share our faith with! We are to share it with everyone. We are to bring people out of eternal suffering and into eternal life. Though, when faithful Christians die, they go to heaven, their job, at times, is not yet done. Though, in some cases, people come to know Christ through the death of a faithful Christian, the Christian still has more to fulfil. Though, in my case, I have few experiences (For I am only 13) on this subject, still.
Why should we be persecuted? Why are we the one of the few religions ridiculed? Why us?
This is like abortion. People are killing others that haven't done anything. True, some Christians are murderers themselves, but... Do they deserve to die? Does anyone deserve to die?
dcsee1

Pro

There is a difference between sharing the gospel message and sharing our innermost thoughts and feelings that we share only with God. You said we get persecuted for our relationship with God... I guess I was trying to tease out the distinction between persecution for our relationship and persecution for the gospel. I agree we shouldn't be afraid, but at the same time we shouldn't share our intimate things between us and god with those who will "trample them under foot and turn and tare you to pieces". These are Jesus words, and I believe the application is for those precious relationship things that God tells you personally to you, that are for you and no one else. In this forum for example, neither you or I should tell personal things that are valuable and specific only to us. General sharing like what you and I are doing now is not a problem, but its not advisable to share intimate details unless it was a safe place to do it. It leaves you vulnerable to attacks from people who would prefer to rip you to pieces at the first sign of vulnerability just because they can and it feels good. Those people would not be receptive to your testimony anyway. So, I believe we keep our pearls close, and not "cast them to pigs" (Jesus words from Matthew 7). And yes, folks who like to rip others apart for the joy of it ARE pigs, I don't care what anyone says, or what belief system they subscribe to. There is a verse that says we should evangelise but make a distinction between 2 types of people... on the receptive listeners we should save with compassion, but on the hostile listeners we should "save with fear". (Jude 1:22-23) "And on some have compassion, making a distinction; but on others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire..." So, I agree that we shouldn't be afraid about sharing the gospel message, but I think we should be "afraid" (cautious would be a better word) about who we tell our innermost secrets with i.e. the details of your personal relationship with God. Unless it is safe, and you know that person isn't mocking you and/or pretending to be interested, you should stay reserved about sharing your spiritual life with random people. General gospel - fine. Secrets between you and God - not fine.

Regarding why WE should be the religion that is persecuted... my take on it is this: Satan hates Christ. Satan is behind every other religion. He works in those people (Ephesians 2:2). And if Satan hates Christ, who do you think he is going to target? Christians.
Debate Round No. 3
19 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by SNP1 1 year ago
SNP1
No true scotsman fallacy?
Posted by Lotbing 1 year ago
Lotbing
If you're a real Christian, you're going to get persecuted and maybe killed, but it would be wrong to kill you.

It depends on how you use the word "should".
Posted by Sniper1576 1 year ago
Sniper1576
I agree that some christians are not innocent of their ways, which, in turn, makes them not a disciple of Jesus Christ.
Posted by SNP1 1 year ago
SNP1
Just one question, are you aware that Hitler was a Christian?
Posted by Sniper1576 1 year ago
Sniper1576
Oi... I am done here... I'm not in a fighting mode right now. I feel very pleasant.
Posted by SNP1 1 year ago
SNP1
"We have helped all of you (Other people of different religions.) all throughout history... The Holocaust"

Someone, call the irony police!
Posted by Sniper1576 1 year ago
Sniper1576
I am not in the killing mode. I am just very frustrated right now with you saying that God shall follows nature.
Posted by canis 1 year ago
canis
Now you are in the killing mode. No thinking at all..That is natures defense of you and your thinking..
Posted by Sniper1576 1 year ago
Sniper1576
God IS nature! God is the creator. He CREATED nature. Nature is outdoors, and God DOES NOT bow down to anything. He is the King of kings, Lord of lords... He is the Great I Am.
Posted by canis 1 year ago
canis
No. Nature is why you do exist. You nature killed the neanther. Your god will have to follow that nature.
No votes have been placed for this debate.