Should God Exist?
Debate Rounds (4)
This round is a confirmation round.
This argument is assuming that God exists, and elaborating from that, specifically, whether of not the actions of God are actually good, or rather done by a corrupted being.
Both Pro and Con should look at the hypothetical God, and the events on Earth that could correspond with said God. In shorter terms, both should look at the perfect concept of God, and what it translates to in real events.
If God does exist, then by nature he must be good, and all loving/caring.
Since that is his nature, then all actions, which are derived from one's nature, must be good.
The events on earth, such as 9/11, and many other horrible tragedies also not associated with religion, are not good.
If God has the power to stop all evil, is a good being, and loves us, why do his actions not correspond with his nature?
When God made Adam and Eve, they lived in a an uncorrupted world of great possibilities, but the possibilities were limited by creating Adam and Eve innocent of evil. A clear warning was given that if they chose to gain knowledge of evil, they would die. They ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil when they believed the lie that God was holding something back from them by not "sharing" evil. They died spiritually that day, (Jesus told a disciple to "let the dead bury their own dead," when he wanted to delay being with Jesus to attend a funeral, and the Bible also speaks of a second death, eternal punishment.) Fortunately for Adam and Eve and their children, God's intolerance of evil is complemented by his mercy that allows us to live and possibly come back to him, so that we might only die physically to get out of our bodies that hold us in this world.
The problem is not that God allows evil to happen to innocent people. Someone asked Jesus pretty much the same question:
"About this time Jesus was informed that Pilate had murdered some people from Galilee as they were offering sacrifices at the Temple. "Do you think those Galileans were worse sinners than all the other people from Galilee?" Jesus asked. "Is that why they suffered? Not at all! And you will perish, too, unless you repent of your sins and turn to God. And what about the eighteen people who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them? Were they the worst sinners in Jerusalem? No, and I tell you again that unless you repent, you will perish, too." -Luke, Chapter 13
If someone has ever sinned once in the slightest, they are just as guilty as someone who breaks all of God's laws. That's how little he tolerates evil and people who cause unjust suffering on others.
God's intolerance of evil ensures we will all someday die, but his mercy allows us to live for a while so we may realize our sin and repent. Because his justice remains intact, he still requires the death penalty for sin be paid, so he paid it himself through his Son Jesus, for anyone who he calls to trust in him.
I ask my opponent why God would create the temptation in the first place? God must at least support evil, if he cannot be evil for the following reason:
God created the temptation. He had the power to stop it, but didn't.
As Epicurus puts in:
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
God has the ability to will.
God has the power to stop evil, but he doesn't.
God must be malacious.
Where did evil come from, and why doesn't God stop it?
Where did evil come from?
If you have something with definition, that is exclusive, as in other traits are excluded. If you have a red car, that car is defined as red, and also defined as not being green or yellow. It is also defined as being a car because of it's car like traits, and in exclusion of other traits that would have made it a pear, a rock, or a saxophone.
God is defined as being good. If he is defined as being good, he must necessarily not be bad. He may have knowledge of evil, but that doesn't make him so.
But if before the Universe, there was only God, and he was still defined then as good, then wouldn't bad need to exist within God to define him, because he was the only thing to exist?
God created us in his image, so we know a little about him from our own nature. He has a mind, and can imagine things. Things that don't exist. God is God, and not other things, like a whale. That's part of his defining characteristics. He thought up and created whales before they existed, but he was not a whale, and whales were not existing in him before he created them.
The Bible says God cannot sin, tempt, or be tempted. Sin is part of what is excluded from his nature to define him.
A yellow car does not need to exist for the red car to be defined as a red car. The yellow is excluded from the nature of the red car, but it's existence is possible. The Earth is round, but we don't need a pyramid Earth to determine that.
Sin is what was outside of the extant parameters of a created good universe, but within the realm of possibility considering infinite possibilities. It says in Ezekiel 28:15 that pride was found in the serpent (Devil) at a certain point, despite him being created sinless. He accessed a possibility that combined love and introspective (and probably some other things) improperly, creating pride, despite him knowing better.
Part of the image of God he put in us is our creativity. We misused that to get where we are today. The serpent tempted Eve by improperly combining curiosity and desire for self-betterment, and maybe some other things, to create disbelief and disobedience despite knowing better.
Why doesn't God stop evil, if he can?
God does stop evil. Just not on our terms. Hitler died. Stalin died. Kim Jong-Il died. A bit late for all the suffering they caused, you might say.
God does not tolerate evil. Have you ever lied? Even a small lie? Have you ever stolen? Even a little, tiny thing? Have you ever looked someone lustfully? These are all violations of God's law put into place after man sinned. One infraction is the same as breaking the whole law, as I pointed out earlier, because the same one who said "don't steal" said "don't commit adultery."
(James 2, Matthew 5:28)
The wages of sin is death. Since we all sin, we all deserve to die. I'm not going to complain about a stay of execution so I can straighten things out with God. And since starting out, Hitler, Stalin, and I were all destined to go to the same place, (death, then Hell), in the end, a little suffering on Earth is not something that should cloud my vision about the suffering to come. We all have suffering because we chose to do wrong, and our race is destined for judgement because we are corrupted.
God is good, (created a perfect world) just, (does not tolerate sin and punishes evil), merciful (allows the condemned to get right with him before they die), and gracious (allows those who are right with him to not only be forgiven, but live again with him in perfection afterward).
I apologize that I cannot respond to your previous points, which are good, since the round is over, and frankly I don't have good points to counter those views. Voters, you should vote Pro, since I was unable to respond to his arguments.
Thank you again.
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