The Instigator
Lyndsee
Con (against)
Losing
43 Points
The Contender
Kleptin
Pro (for)
Winning
53 Points

Should Illegal mexicans be allowed in the U.S.A?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/8/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 5,101 times Debate No: 2497
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (24)
Votes (24)

 

Lyndsee

Con

Makes me so angry to them stealing our money when they're not even supposed to be here in the first place!!. I also don't believe that they should be able to recieve a license to drive either;If you get into an accident with an illegal immigrant you're screwed! All they are going to do is run from the government and you're not gonna get crap for the damages they made!!.(no offense to anyone who is legal just had to get that off of my chest )
Kleptin

Pro

Yeah. I have no problem with that, as long as they don't send money out of the country, or keep crossing the border. I'd much rather they live here with their whole family.

Illegal immigrants provide good, cheap labor. They do things that no one wants to do for a salary that no one thinks is worth it.

They're hardworking, they don't really cause too much trouble, and their kids end up to be good members of society.

There are two more rounds. I suppose this is enough for now.
Debate Round No. 1
Lyndsee

Con

That's exactly what they do...they make the money here and send it back to Mexico. The American dollar is worth 2 or 3 times more than the Mexican dollar. So they come to our country take our money and send it back to Mexico. They're not here because America is better than Mexico, they come here because our money is better. If the Mexicans keep doing this for another 20 yrs., then America is gonna end up being just like Mexico. What do you mean "as long as they don't keep crossing the border"?...HELLO! what do you think they're doing?? What do you think this whole argument is about? "Should Illegal Mexican be allowed in the U.S.A"? How else would they get here??...umm lets see..they cross the border maybe? And they're gonna keep crossing the border until Mexico becomes just as wealthy as the USA. Why don't you try to go to Mexico illegaly?...my cousin went there for spring break and got killed so does that mean they can come to america illegaly and steal out money and jobs, but when we wanna go there "legally" they suddenly have a problem with it? Ok well you do the math...you go to Mexico and see what happens. You get into a car accident with an illegal immigrant and see if you SH** back for the damages. Are you telling me that you enjoy paying their taxes?? Since they are here illegaly they don't have to pay anykind of taxes...all they have to pay is rent for their "homes". So you go ahead and pay their taxes...pay their bills...and pay for their cars...fo ranother 20yrs. and see if you still want them here. so have a good day and respond to this if you think you can top this. Thanks!
Kleptin

Pro

"That's exactly what they do...they make the money here and send it back to Mexico."

You misunderstood my point. I'm arguing that it is fine to allow illegal Mexicans to stay here so long as they aren't supporting a family in Mexico with American money. It would be perfectly okay if they support their entire family IN America, brought along all their kids and spouses.

"The American dollar is worth 2 or 3 times more than the Mexican dollar. So they come to our country take our money and send it back to Mexico. They're not here because America is better than Mexico, they come here because our money is better. If the Mexicans keep doing this for another 20 yrs., then America is gonna end up being just like Mexico. "

Many families illegally immigrate here permanently with no intention of going back. I'm fine with that. As I said before, both types exist and I am only against those who bring American money outside the country.

"What do you mean "as long as they don't keep crossing the border"?"

I mean Jose Ramirez shouldn't go to America to work a 12 hour day, then back to Mexico with his paycheck, and back to America the day after to work again. As I said before, either stay here and support your family here, or stay there and support your family there.

"...HELLO! "

Yes, Hello. How are you today?

"what do you think they're doing??"

The macarena

"What do you think this whole argument is about? "Should Illegal Mexican be allowed in the U.S.A"? How else would they get here??...umm lets see..they cross the border maybe?"

Okay, kidding aside, this is a strawman fallacy. If there's a possibility for you misunderstanding my point (which is what happened there) it's a waste of your time, my time, and the voters' time to keep arguing as if though I meant exactly what you thought.

You completely misunderstood my point, so the sarcasm and likewise unprofessional garbage in this response? I'm going to wipe it out.

"Why don't you try to go to Mexico illegaly?..."

Ad hominem argument, non sequitor. An attack on my person instead of my argument that happens to make no logical sense.

"my cousin went there for spring break and got killed so does that mean they can come to america illegaly and steal out money and jobs, but when we wanna go there "legally" they suddenly have a problem with it?"

Non sequitor fallacy. Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. First, your argument doesn't follow. Your cousin being killed has nothing to do with whether or not Mexicans steal money or jobs. Second, your cousin being killed in Mexico can be for a variety of reasons, not necessarily because Mexicans don't welcome Americans.

"Ok well you do the math...you go to Mexico and see what happens. You get into a car accident with an illegal immigrant and see if you SH** back for the damages."

More ad hominem attack. I'll treat this as an actual argument though, even though it isn't one. The illegal immigrant causes car accidents and has no insurance. In both cases, auto repair must be sought. In that case, the auto repair industry and the car factories get money from the consumers. The economy as a whole is unharmed so long as the accident takes place in America.

"Are you telling me that you enjoy paying their taxes?? Since they are here illegaly they don't have to pay anykind of taxes...all they have to pay is rent for their "homes"."

Again, another ad hominem attack, and again, I'll pretend it's an argument.

They have to pay sales tax. Besides, their children aren't enrolled in schools, they don't get medical care, they don't get anything that our taxes pay for, so why should they have to pay taxes? We're not paying for anything of theirs. They're stimulating OUR economy for free.

"So you go ahead and pay their taxes...pay their bills...and pay for their cars...fo ranother 20yrs. and see if you still want them here. so have a good day and respond to this if you think you can top this. Thanks!"

We don't pay their bills. They pay their own bills. If they choose to live here, they have to pay rent. If they choose to eat, they have to buy food. All they're doing is stimulating the economy.

*********************

I've responded to your points. You haven't responded to any of mine. So I'll begin.

Let me repeat again that I am against the illegal immigrants who bring money outside the country. For example, if they have to support their family in Mexico with American money.

Most illegal immigrants come here with their entire family and support them in America.

I am for these people.

First of all, they provide the economy with demand. Illegal immigrants living in America need food, water, shelter, etc. and they need capital to get that. They create a demand which our economy fulfills.

Second, they provide the economy with capital. Illegal immigrants are cheap hires that do comparatively efficient work for low wages. They also work long hours and are very productive.

Third, they take jobs that no one else wants. Most of the jobs that we would be disgusted with doing are done by illegal immigrants. So job competition is a void argument.

I look forward to your response and hope that the next one will be less emotionally charged, since I am more used to dealing with professional and well-worded presentations of an argument rather than being yelled at.
Debate Round No. 2
Lyndsee

Con

Sorry..didnt mean to come off as i was yelling...ill use less exclamation points. But i do not think I misunderstood anyhting. I'm not saying that Mexicans literally go to mexico everyday when they make their money...What i'm saying is that when they get their paycheck they take somewhere that can mail money to their people in mexico. What is that really doing for us? we're losing more and more money because of them. And no I don't have a problem with Mexicans being here , but if they are here ILLEGALY then thats where i have a problem. Why do you think a huge fence is being put up at the border? Do you think it's because we are welcoming illegal immigrants into our country for our money and our jobs? No i think they are trying to get it through their heads that we don't want them here illegaly. If they're gonna come In our country and not expect to have to pay taxes or anything else then what is the point of even being here? They're not making or improving our country in any way. And yes my cousin being killed does have a lot to do with how mexicans feel when we step foot into their country, so please don't tell me that I dont know what im talking about because we have proof that he was killed for being there and you dont know the whole story.
Kleptin

Pro

"Sorry..didnt mean to come off as i was yelling...ill use less exclamation points."

It's not just the exclamation points. If you're going to take debate seriously, you can't be so biased.

"But i do not think I misunderstood anyhting."

That's not up for you to decide. I made a point, you responded to something else. Hence, there was a misunderstanding.

"I'm not saying that Mexicans literally go to mexico everyday when they make their money...What i'm saying is that when they get their paycheck they take somewhere that can mail money to their people in mexico. "

And still many more bring their whole family here and raise them here. I told you before, these are two different things. I am against illegal immigrants who send money outside the country, but I am FOR illegal immigrants who are in the country and use money in this country. I have made myself quite clear and you have consistently sidestepped this point. Possibly because you agree with me?

"What is that really doing for us? we're losing more and more money because of them."

The illegal immigrants who are raising families here are bolstering our economy without using up the resources we allocate from taxes.

"And no I don't have a problem with Mexicans being here , but if they are here ILLEGALY then thats where i have a problem. Why do you think a huge fence is being put up at the border? Do you think it's because we are welcoming illegal immigrants into our country for our money and our jobs? No i think they are trying to get it through their heads that we don't want them here illegaly."

Never ask rhetorical questions in debate, because you can never be sure how I'm going to answer. Please don't use sarcasm. Please don't assume what I will say. Rhetorical questions don't emphasize your point, they just act as filler for a non-existing argument.

This debate is about illegal immigrants and whether or not we should take FURTHER action against them. I argue that the illegal immigrants who are raising their families here are not harming our society, and I have given evidence for my point. So far, all you have done is repeat, like a parrot, that they are stealing our money and jobs. I have already addressed those points but you have not bothered to respond.

"If they're gonna come In our country and not expect to have to pay taxes or anything else then what is the point of even being here?"

I have also addressed this point. If you're not going to read what I have to say, why debate? Just post on a blog.

"They're not making or improving our country in any way."

Again, I have given you examples against this. You absolutely refuse to acknowledge that there is someone besides you participating in this debate.

"And yes my cousin being killed does have a lot to do with how mexicans feel when we step foot into their country, so please don't tell me that I dont know what im talking about because we have proof that he was killed for being there and you dont know the whole story"

This debate is in round 3 of 3, it is not my fault you didn't decide to give the full story, but for some reason, you chose not to. Thus, your point is invalid. In addition, one example proves nothing. You can't generalize and say that all Mexicans are American-hating xenophobes based on one incident. So yes, I can invalidate your point even though I don't know the whole story.

*********

That was my response to your last post, which is basically a repeat of your initial argument.

I will now restate my arguments since you purposely avoided addressing ANYTHING that I have said.

********

First and foremost, I have made it quite clear that I am AGAINST illegal immigrants that damage our economy by sending American money out of the country. That point I give to my opponent.

HOWEVER

I am absolutely FOR the illegal immigrants who come in and raise their families here without shipping money outwards.

My opponent has refused to address that point in favor of yelling at me.

My opponent has declared that they are not paying taxes. I have already replied to this point:

"They have to pay sales tax. Besides, their children aren't enrolled in schools, they don't get medical care, they don't get anything that our taxes pay for, so why should they have to pay taxes? We're not paying for anything of theirs. They're stimulating OUR economy for free. We don't pay their bills. They pay their own bills. If they choose to live here, they have to pay rent. If they choose to eat, they have to buy food. All they're doing is stimulating the economy."

My opponent has also declared that they do not contribute to the country even though I have argued, in the reply immediately before, all the reasons why I believe illegal immigrants are benefiting our country more than harming it.

"First of all, they provide the economy with demand. Illegal immigrants living in America need food, water, shelter, etc. and they need capital to get that. They create a demand which our economy fulfills.

Second, they provide the economy with capital. Illegal immigrants are cheap hires that do comparatively efficient work for low wages. They also work long hours and are very productive.

Third, they take jobs that no one else wants. Most of the jobs that we would be disgusted with doing are done by illegal immigrants."

My opponent has either read these points and refused to reply, or completely ignored my reply. The only thing my opponent did for the third and final response was repeat her arguments, even though I had responded to each and every single one of them before. She completely disregarded my arguments even though I have invalidated each one of hers.

Illegal immigrants are not as evil as my opponent makes them out to be. Most of them are hardworking people looking for a better life. As long as they do not send money outside the country (and many do not because they escape with their entire family here) they bolster our economy.

Thank you for this debate.
Debate Round No. 3
24 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by o-man 4 years ago
o-man
also lyndsee if you get your facts straight the border was not put up to keep Mexicans from going into the Unites States. the border was built shortly after the terrorist attacks on the world trade center. And its initial purpose was to keep terrorists from going into Mexico. since no terrorist has crossed from Mexico the border was then used to keep Mexicans from going into the country. What did Mexicans do to deserve this maltreatment. so please "Lyndsee" get it through you thick head the US drew first blood. hopefully something makes you understand.
Posted by o-man 4 years ago
o-man
I wish I could join in this debate. I'm a new member so I'm not exactly sure how to join a debate. When I saw a post made by "Lyndsee" I could not help but say something about it. She talks about how Mexicans send money back to Mexico. If I could respond I would say that they send the money to help the rest of the families who are struggling and probably also hoping to someday get a better life in America and the fact that she stated that Mexicans will eventually make the US dollar worthless because its all I Mexico. Does she really think that it will really happen. Its not like if Mexicans are planning it and is their overall goal. What's wrong with helping a family member or a friend. wouldn't you do it if you could?
Lyndsee says that "Should Illegal Mexican be allowed in the U.S.A"? How else would they get here??...umm lets see..they cross the border maybe?" first of all she talks as if any Mexican is illegal. she says, "How else would they get here??...umm lets see..they cross the border maybe?" is she talking about the "Illegal Mexican". if the "Illegal Mexican" is not allowed to cross the border then the Mexican would not be illegal because they haven't crossed the border illegally. she is jumping into conclusion that the Mexican is illegal no matter what. I see it that she is not properly educated in what is legal and illegal..."so does that mean they can come to America illegally and steal out money and jobs, but when we wanna go there "legally" they suddenly have a problem with it?"
this line makes no sense. so she is talking about her cousin who got killed. First of all it depends how he got killed because people get killed all over the world. Yeah Mexico allows people to go to Cancun and relax at their hotels so then Mexico would not have a problem having Americans in Mexico.
Posted by Kleptin 9 years ago
Kleptin
Oh I know that NOW, But she didn't. So if I lose points for saying something wrong, she loses points by not catching me on it.

As I said before, judge by the comparative arguments, not by the position.
Posted by skizzils 9 years ago
skizzils
Illegals use free medicare, take our jobs, and some DO go to school. Kleptin needs to get his facts correct.

Just so you know, I voted for her and I am my own account. You obviously need to come up with excuses to come up with a reason why you lost.
Posted by Kleptin 9 years ago
Kleptin
That's a pretty misguided reason to vote for you. We're focusing on the strength of the arguments, not on the position.

I don't want them here either, but I had to debate the opposite position.

But hey, who am I to stand up against the ignorance of the masses?
Posted by Lyndsee 9 years ago
Lyndsee
I think it's because the people who voted for me don't want any kind of people in our country illegaly.
Posted by Lyndsee 9 years ago
Lyndsee
yea cuz i wanna waste my time creating all these accounts just so i'd win...yep thats exactly wut happend...i guess you've done it b4?? sounds like u have since u know the easy way to do it...loser
Posted by Kleptin 9 years ago
Kleptin
Whoop, looks like my opponent made enough accounts to vote herself into a win.

Of course, registering extra g-mail accounts is a much simpler task than debating. We all must specialize to succeed.
Posted by Chickago 9 years ago
Chickago
How about just good old national sovereignty?

There really doesn't even have to be an argument as to why Illegals should not be allowed in our country..It's IN the world itself.

ILLEGAL. They are not special - and by no means should be an exception to any rule we have In the United States. Yes they help our economy by doing the shitty jobs other americans wouldn't but they also HURT our economy and our people by great means. And maybe if they weren't around..and the government was stricter on welfare and governing programs..the people who are jobless and feed off the government in our country can make themselves useful.

Also..it really pisses me off when theres illegal immigrants rallying in the streets of chicago, Get the f*ck out, seriously. With signs talking about how we treat them badly, then get out it's that simple.

Have you guys taken a look at Mexico's immigration laws?? They don't allow immigrants in Mexico... you should read up on it and see what they do to illegals over there, yet they think it should be different in OUR nation. I think not.

I want them out.
Posted by brittwaller 9 years ago
brittwaller
Really guys, Kleptin out-debated by a mile. Just one more example of how the voting system here is screwed.
24 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Willoweed 5 years ago
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