The Instigator
tyler42240
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Apollo.11
Con (against)
Winning
5 Points

Should Kids Be Forced To Go To School?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Apollo.11
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/5/2012 Category: Education
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,665 times Debate No: 22608
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (2)

 

tyler42240

Pro

I am the Pro in this argument. With that being said I agree that kids be forced to go to school. First round is acceptance!

Good Luck!
Apollo.11

Con

I accept. I thank Pro for the debate.

RESOLUTION: Children between the ages of 5-18 should be imposed by coercion or physical power to attend primary or secondary schools mandated for or offered to all children by the government.

I am arguing against.

Definitions:

kids: Children between the ages of 5-18.

forced: Obtained or imposed by coercion or physical power. [1]

school: Primary or secondary schools mandated for or offered to all children by the government. [2]:

BOP:

We'll have a shared BOP. Although technically, it is on Pro. But I will make arguments regardless.

Rules:

1. 8000 character limit
2. No arguments in the comment section after or during the debate
3. No new arguments in Round 3


Sources:
1. http://oxforddictionaries.com...
2. http://en.wikipedia.org...;
Debate Round No. 1
tyler42240

Pro

I think kids should be forced to go to school by the Government. Not to go just for their selves, but also for society. Going to school high school shouldn't be an option. Kids need to go to school and get an education for the "real" world. The main reason is to go get your high school diploma. There aren't many high paying jobs out there that requires just a high school diploma. "Recent dropouts will earn $200,000 less than high school graduates, and over $800,000 less than college graduates, in their lives." According
tohttp://www.dosomething.org.... About 1.2 million kids drop out of high school each year.http://www.dosomething.org.... We need productive people of society. Once a kid quits school, what makes you think they won't quit everything else in life? The Government is just looking out for the greater good for society. They don't care what you do career wise, just that you get an education to get through life easier. Anything higher than high school should be and of course is an option.

You will probably soon address the fact that many families are on Welfare or Government assistance programs, and that they need to go out and get a job to support their family. But wouldn't it make sense to finish high school and get a higher paying job? High school graduates make $200,000 more in their lives! Also according to http://www.dosomething.org...; drop outs make up nearly half of the heads in a household on Welfare. So really dropping out of school to get a job isn't helping matters any, it's really just making them worse in the long run.

In 2012, it is now harder to get a job than maybe 20 years ago. That's with a high school diploma or not. Employers are only worried about achievements, education, and experience. What makes you think that you're going to get a job over someone with a high school diploma? I sure wouldn't hire someone who dropped out of high school, and didn't get a diploma or a GED. Now the job market is more competitive than ever. Kids need to get an advantage on other applicants for the job. With a high school diploma begin one of the bigger issues. Finishing high school helps you as a person, society, and you in the future. Nothing bad can come out of you finishing high school and getting a good education.
Apollo.11

Con

Once again, voters should keep the resolution in mind when judging the cogency of Pro's arguments:

Children between the ages of 5-18 should be imposed by coercion or physical power to attend primary or secondary schools mandated for or offered to all children by the government.

Rebuttals:

Argument #1:

P1. What is beneficial to society should be forcibly imposed upon an individual regardless of personal will and individual freedom.

P2. It is always beneficial to society for an individual to attend state schools.

Therefore, individuals should be forced against their will to attend state schools.

Premise 1

Never justified.

Premise 2

Pro justifies this by saying those who drop out of high school make less money later on in life. This dubious at best. Private schools give a better qualitative preparation for careers. And college degrees boost one's salary even more. Yet Pro is not advocating forcing all individuals to attend college.

So even assuming Premise 2, Pro contradicts himself.

Argument #2:

Those who fail to complete a state school education will never become productive members of society.

This is patently false.

1) Those who receive a private school education or homeschooling go on to have successful careers.

2) High school dropouts are more likely to have a job than not (by a large margin).

Argument #3:

High school dropouts often becoming reliant on welfare.

This is Pro's first cogent argument. I will concede this fact. But Pro has failed to justify why, simply because the minority of drop outs will use welfare at one point in their lives, should children between the ages of 5-18 should be imposed by coercion or physical power to attend primary or secondary schools mandated for or offered to all children by the government.

Argument #4:

"Nothing bad can come out of it"

1) Simply because nothing bad result from something, should government then mandate that all people do that thing by threat of physical force and coercion?

2) Bad things CAN come out of it.

--20% of students in state high schools are bullied. [1]

--State schools have widespread drug and tobacco use. [1]

--28% of students in grades 6-12 are bullied. [2]

My Case:

I. Homeschooling

Currently, 1.5 million Americans are homeschooled. [3]

Those who are homeschooled achieve much higher than their public school counterparts.

"Homeschoolers, on the average, out-performed their counterparts in the public schools by 30 to 37 percentile points in all subjects." [3]

"Dr. Lawrence Rudner of 20,760 homeschooled students which found the homeschoolers who have homeschooled all their school aged years had the highest academic achievement. This was especially apparent in the higher grades." [3]

To mandate that all children attend state schools would REDUCE the general intelligence and achievement of Americans.

II. Special Needs and Mentally Disabled Children.

Special needs and mentally disabled children need special care and education. To force them to attend state schools would be cruel and reckless endangerment to those who have medical needs.

III. Environment of State Schools.

Again, state schools can be dangerous environments for students.

  • 20% of students in state high schools are bullied. [1]
  • State schools have widespread drug and tobacco use. [1]
  • 28% of students in grades 6-12 are bullied. [2]

Parents should be free to choose whether or not to expose their children to these risks. For government to impose by coercion or physical power that students be exposed to widespread drug/tobacco/alcohol use and bullying is to mandate cruelty.

IV. 10th Amendment

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." [4]

The Constitution does not grant that children between the ages of 5-18 can be imposed by coercion or physical power to attend primary or secondary schools mandated for or offered to all children by the government.

This is restriction of freedom for both child and parent and is unconstitutional.

V. Restricts Private Enterprise

To mandate that all children attend STATE schools would result in the government monopoly of education. Private schools would have to be closed, resulting in massive layoffs and the loss of efficiency and competitive free markets.

VI. Cost

"Dr. Ray found the average cost per homeschool student is $546 while the average cost per public school student is $5,325. Yet the homeschool children in this study averaged in 85th percentile while the public school students averaged in the 50th percentile on nationally standardized achievement tests." [3]

Both straight up cost as well as cost to achievement ratios favor homeshcooling over state schools.

_____________

1. http://www.cdc.gov...

2. http://nces.ed.gov...

3. http://www.hslda.org...

4. http://www.law.cornell.edu...

Debate Round No. 2
tyler42240

Pro

tyler42240 forfeited this round.
Apollo.11

Con

Darn....

Ah well.... Vote Con.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by tyler42240 2 years ago
tyler42240
It is now a 3 round debate.
Posted by Apollo.11 2 years ago
Apollo.11
Make it a 3 round debate and i'll accept.
Posted by tyler42240 2 years ago
tyler42240
Excuse me for my lack of information. But to answer your question by the Government
Posted by Mirza 2 years ago
Mirza
Be more specific. Should kids be forced by their parents, or the government?
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 2 years ago
16kadams
tyler42240Apollo.11Tied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: -
Vote Placed by imabench 2 years ago
imabench
tyler42240Apollo.11Tied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: pro actually did kind of well but the FF in round 3 was disasterous timing following con's rebuttals, so arguments and conduct go to the con