The Instigator
EllisJSims
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Pravdah
Con (against)
Winning
2 Points

Should Kim Davis be thrown in jail?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Pravdah
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/9/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 693 times Debate No: 79545
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (2)

 

EllisJSims

Pro

Kim Davis is the clerk of a small county in Kentucky. I am a democratic, nonreligious, heterosexual male. I live in Louisville. Kim Davis was thrown in jail because she refused to distribute marriage licences to gay/lesbian couples because of her religious beliefs. She was to be incarcerated until she agreed to give them out in her county. She has been released, but she hasn't yet agreed. I believe that that she should be in jail for not following the law. The bible says that gay marriage is wrong. But what it also says is that you should follow the law of the land. Homosexuals shouldn't be discriminated because of who they want to marry. The same as blacks shouldn't be discriminated because of their skin color. The same that women shouldn't be discriminated because of their gender.
Pravdah

Con

Alright, Just going to play some Devil's Advocate for Kim here, and honestly, don't be surprised when I abuse some loopholes or something. Just to clarify, I am a republican leaning, Buddhist-leaning , heterosexual male. (Well, actually I'm Canadian, so I guess conservative leaning?)

On the case of whether or not she was allowed to refuse same-sex licenses or not, by articles on the subject Kim didn't want to go against her own conscience, her own sense of moral values. To paraphrase some of the ideas behind pro-religion movements, if they are not allowed to practise certain aspects of religion, how long will it be before someone comes along to call the rest of them archaic, outdated, or harmful? (To be honest, Social Justice and their apparent need to justify everything made or done by white people as racist comes to mind.) The point is that considering that this can be considered by some to be the government overriding one's conscience, and those who hold the "sanctity of marriage" in high regard might see something like this as an attempt to suppress them voicing their views or protesting in retaliation, which, to my knowledge, is a constitutional right.

And to the pragmatism to jailing her, what would be the point? couples could easily go to another county to get a license, shouldn't be that big of an inconvenience, or simply co-habitate or not enter the register at all. To interject with my own bias I feel like marriage nowadays brings more problems and misfortune than merit, and I feel that gay marriage may not be immune to this. In conclusion of this point, it would be simpler and less confrontational to circumvent this problem than to take it by the lapels and stare it in the face. Creates less martyrs too.

Lastly, I'm under the impression that Kim refused ALL marriage licenses from being issued in the county, not just same-sex. I have no idea about Kentucky law, but I'm pretty sure there isn't anything in the law of the state, or federally, forcing counties to issue marriage licenses. Because she refused all licenses, and not just same-sex ones, I don't believe she broke any law(Although I may be horribly wrong and you have every right to correct me, this is simply an assertion for now.). This might also just be a crafty form of protesting, to which I have to quote the French philosopher Voltaire: "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."(1)

(1)(not sure if this is needed but hey, when in doubt, cite it.):
http://www.brainyquote.com...
Debate Round No. 1
EllisJSims

Pro

EllisJSims forfeited this round.
Pravdah

Con

I guess this round is my win??????
Debate Round No. 2
EllisJSims

Pro

EllisJSims forfeited this round.
Pravdah

Con

I guess that's it. Not gonna win this but it's in your hands now.
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by Pravdah 1 year ago
Pravdah
I've got an hour till I get the round so......
Posted by RedMoonlight 1 year ago
RedMoonlight
"she was thrown in jail for not enforcing the laws"

Technically, that's not true. Davis isn't a law enforcement officer. Her job isn't to "enforce" gay marriage laws, but to comply with them. She was jailed for contempt of court after a judge ordered her to stop denying people their civil rights.

"why are we not jailing the mayor and law enforcement agents in San Francisco..."

To expand on what I said above, you're conflating enforcement of the law and compliance with it. Law enforcement entities like cops and the federal government often have discretion as to what extent they enforce laws. Individuals don't have the same discretion in regard to obeying laws. Kim Davis is not a law enforcer, but an individual who must comply with the new laws created by the Supreme Court's same sex marriage ruling. Hillary Clinton is in the same boat, and she should face consequences too.

"...no citizen of this nation needs to obey any laws they do not agree with."

So... anarchy?
Posted by MizzEnigma 1 year ago
MizzEnigma
It was a federal position and her job. She cannot be fired, but she can resign, but she chose not to and was therefore arrested as the result of doing her job. A federal job is a Government job. As long as you have a Government job, then you must understand the distinction between Church and State. If it conflicts with your religion, then you should probably find a new job. They can't fire you. And, if I recall correctly, they did ask her to step down so they wouldn't have to arrest her, but she refused to do so. The only course of action was having arrested her.

All who break the law [or fail to enact it] should go to jail [or generally be punished for not doing so], regardless of their positions. Exceptions should not be made.

That's my opinion, though.
Posted by MakeSensePeopleDont 1 year ago
MakeSensePeopleDont
@RedMoonlight -- I've got your defense to keep Kim Davis out of jail; it's actually pretty straight forward. Kim Davis was thrown in jail for "not obeying the law by handing out same-sex marriage licenses"; she was thrown in jail for not enforcing the laws. If we are jailing low-level civil-servants for not enforcing the laws, why are we not jailing the mayor and law enforcement agents in San Francisco? Why is Hillary Clinton not in jail for violating the laws regarding safe and proper storage and transfer of classified information; or for endangering national security? Furthermore, why are we not jailing President Barrack Obama for not enforcing our illegal immigration laws; or why is he not in jail for conspiracy to commit murder or accessory to murder since his refusal to enforce federal immigration laws led to the shooting death and murder of Kate Steinle or any of the other 120 murders committed by illegal immigrants directly traced back to the release of illegal immigrants from prison by President Barrack Obama himself? || What is her defense? The precedent previously set by both the Federal Justice System AND all branches of government at both the state and federal levels. It has been made rule by the very government and justice system going after her, that no citizen of this nation needs to obey any laws they do not agree with.
Posted by Pravdah 1 year ago
Pravdah
I know, but hey, if you can fight an uphill battle, downhill ones will be a landslide. XD
Posted by RedMoonlight 1 year ago
RedMoonlight
Lol... good luck Con. This is not a winnable resolution for you. Every argument I've heard in support of Davis is either misinformed of willfully ignorant. The Pro only needs two simple words to secure a victory: First Amendment.
Posted by MagicAintReal 1 year ago
MagicAintReal
I can't stand that cun+. If you don't wish to uphold the law, then you shouldn't be in a position that requires you to do so...by law. I hope she goes to jail and falls in love with a female inmate...that would be awesome.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Midnight1131 1 year ago
Midnight1131
EllisJSimsPravdahTied
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Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
EllisJSimsPravdahTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro ff many times, so conduct to Con.