The Instigator
gr8laker
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
DarthVitiosus
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Should Mark Schauer be Michigan's next governor?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/31/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 662 times Debate No: 64291
Debate Rounds (3)
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gr8laker

Pro

Rick Snyder hasn't been great for Michigan for a number of reasons.

First, during his tenure as governor, he has cut roughly a billion dollars to the state education budget. As a result, many public schools closed and students had to attend another school. I attend a public high school in Michigan and just last year the two high schools in my district merged because the state cut spending for each student. Teachers were fired and the avg. class size increased significantly.

Also, Snyder appointed an emergency manager for Detroit. The manager, Kevin Orr, turned off water services for Detroit residents who couldn't pay for it. Businesses, however, never got their water turned off when they couldn't pay for it. This sparked outrage and protests in the city of Detroit. While this isn't completely Snyder's fault, he didn't take action, which ticked people off even more.

Unlike Mark Schauer, Snyder is reluctant to share his opinions on same-sex marriage. Why reelect a governor who is afraid to share with the public whether or not he supports same sex marriage

Schauer served as a congressman. During his tenure, he voted for the auto bailout, which saved thousands of Michigan jobs, and he fought to protect middle class families.

It is time we remove Rick Snyder from office and put in Mark Schauer. Your thoughts!
DarthVitiosus

Con

Thanks to my opponent for hosting this debate. I as Con will argue that Mark Schauer should not be Michigan's next governor.

" he has cut roughly a billion dollars to the state education budget"
The cuts to the state education budget were necessary. The cuts were the result of the loss of federal funding[1]. The part of the budget that was cut related to federal subsidies ending. The state education budget is generally sustained by the taxpaying citizens of Michigan. The Michigan economy has not grown significantly in the last few years in order to maintain the federal subsidies. If taxpaying citizens are not making more money, than the federal subsidies must be cut .or taxes must be raised, or debts must incur further. Rick Snyder or whomever was governor had generally three options which was to make the cuts now, or prolong the cuts, or raise the taxes on Michigan taxpayers. Inevitably, the cuts to education would have had to happen if taxes weren't raised, it was strictly of a question of when.

[1]http://www.mlive.com...

The cuts happened during Rick Snyder's first term for governor. Spending on Michigan students during Snyder's second term. There was a $660 increase per student[1].

"Kevin Orr, turned off water services for Detroit residents who couldn't pay for it. Businesses, however, never got their water turned off when they couldn't pay for it. "

Municipal plumbing costs lots of money to maintain. This is not Rick Snyder's responsbility nor could he do anything about it. Detroit is respsonsible for Detroit's problems, not the entire state of Michigan.

"Unlike Mark Schauer, Snyder is reluctant to share his opinions on same-sex marriage. Why reelect a governor who is afraid to share with the public whether or not he supports same sex marriage"

Why should Governor Rick Snyder speak on an issue he is unfamiliar with possibly unsure of? Mark Schauer has a strong stance about same sex marriage so of course he state his opinion on the matter. Rick Snyder hasn't campaigned on the issue that much if at all, Snyder has his choice to chose what to campaign for as well as Schauer.

Most of my opponent's arguments are not for Mark Schauer as much as they are attacks on the Snyder administration. I will explain thoroughly why Mark Schauer should not be Michigan's governor.

Mark Schauer is inconsistent. Earlier this year, he said voters shouldn't engage in cross-ballot voting. Yet in 2012, Mark Schauer likely voted for Rick Santorum in the GOP primary[2]. Is Schauer a Repubican or a Democrat? Schauer is telling others not to cross-ballot vote at the same time he does it himself.

[2]http://www.politico.com...;
Debate Round No. 1
gr8laker

Pro

What my opponent needs to realize is that the future of our country truly depends on how well our public educational system prepares students to deal with the world. The only way they will be able to compete with the rest of the world will be if they are educated properly, and that will require a lot of money. Some cuts need to be made from the budget, but not education. President Obama recently highlighted that education is the most important investment we can make (1). I would also like to remind my opponent that we are still in Snyder's first term in office, not second, as he pointed out at the end of his first rebuttal.

Next, I want to remind my opponent that I did say that Snyder is not entirely to blame for cutting water off of people's homes. But let me ask you this: Is water a human right? Should the government be able to provide water to its citizens regardless of their socioeconomic status? Any problem that exists in Michigan IS a Michigan problem. If Detroit is responsible for Detroit's problems and not the entire state of Michigan, then why did the state government step in and appoint an emergency manager?

While Snyder can campaign on whatever he wants, if he is asked about his stance on same-sex marriage, as he was at this year's only gubernatorial debate, shouldn't be able to provide an answer? Instead of answering the question ("Where do you stand on the issue"), Snyder said, "Well, again, I'm waiting for the outcome from the court." (2) THAT'S NOT AN OPINION!!! Shouldn't we have government who can answer any question we may have regarding any state issue?

To answer your question, Schauer is Democrat. Can you name one conservative thing Schauer has ever done? And so what if he voted for Santorum? He wanted Obama to win reelection, so he voted for the Republican least likely to beat him. So what? I would've done that. He said voters shouldn't engage in cross-balloting? It's politics. Of course he said that. Has any candidate for any office ever meant EVERYTHING he/she said?

1. http://www.wsj.com...
2.http://www.freep.com...
DarthVitiosus

Con

Note: Previously, I meant Rick Snyder's first year is when the cuts took place. Snyder's second year as governor he increased spending about $660 per student.

"What my opponent needs to realize is that the future of our country truly depends on how well our public educational system prepares students to deal with the world. The only way they will be able to compete with the rest of the world will be if they are educated properly, and that will require a lot of money. Some cuts need to be made from the budget, but not education."


My opponent does not understand why the cuts took place. The money came from federal subsidies that eventually the state of Michigan was required to eventually pay for and maintain. It was money mandated by the federal government for the state of Michigan to pay for after the federal subsidies ended. Snyder just cut the excessive payments in the budget which were authorized by the federal government[1].

Then my opponent goes on to say that cuts could have been made elsewhere. Where would those cuts have been? Should state employee jobs be cut? Should funding be cut to roads and bridges? Should funding be cut to the state police? There are many other agencies and state subsidies that could of been cut. However, the money to the education budget that Snyder cut was authorized by the congress in Washington DC not by the state legislature in Lansing. Therefore, federal subsidies should be cut before any of the state's actual programs which are authorized by the citizens of Michigan, the governor of Michigan, and the state legislature of Michigan.

[1]http://www.factcheck.org...

"Is water a human right?"

No, water is not a right. Who said this? It is certainly not listed in the United States Constitution or the state constituion of Michigan.

"Any problem that exists in Michigan IS a Michigan problem."

False, Governor Rick Snyder does not control the emergency services in Detroit, Flint, Lansing, and any other county/city within the state of Michigan. Governor Rick Snyder is not responsible for contracting outside of any Michigan state government agency.Governor Rick Snyder and the state government of Michigan are not responsible for many liscensing agreements throughout the state because they are determined locally such as a liquor liscense.


"If Detroit is responsible for Detroit's problems and not the entire state of Michigan, then why did the state government step in and appoint an emergency manager?"

The state of Michigan is responsible for the charter of any city or county in Michigan. Therefore if a city or county in Michigan declares bankruptcy or has a gross debt, the state must take responsilbiility for it.

"Shouldn't we have government who can answer any question we may have regarding any state issue?"

No because the answer maybe erronous or misleading. Answers shouldn't always be given when there is a limited information about a subject. Rick Snyder did give his opinion as well on same sex marriage. Snyder thinks that same sex marriage should be determined legally rather than politically. Snyder wants it out of the hands of politicians like himself and in the hands of the courts who will determine the legality of same sex marriage.

Debate Round No. 2
gr8laker

Pro

Note: I made an error in my previous argument when I said, "Shouldn't we have government who can answer any question we may have regarding any state issue?" I meant to say, "governor," instead of "government."

My opponent claims that Snyder "just cuts the excessive payments in the budget which were authorized by the federal government." What my opponent failed to mention is that the minimum per-pupil foundation allowance -- the money schools automatically get based on enrollment -- has dropped from an effective rate of $7,146 in 2011 to $7,026 in 2014. A large chunk of state education spending now is going to retirement costs and doesn't necessarily make it into the classroom. (1).

"Water is a human right" is a slogan used during the protests in Detroit. While my opponent is correct that technically, the United States does not have a law saying, "water is a human right," my opponent doesn't realize that it considered a right in many parts of the world and that the U.S is moving to consider water a human right. "Not only are the United States" arguments against declaring an international human right to water weak, especially given the fact that California has enacted a human right to water, the United States is already supporting the right. Declaring an international right to water will not change how the United States is already behaving in relation to that right. Therefore, the United States should declare an international human right to water, as articulated by the United Nations." (2)

Snyder doesn't control the emergency services in Detroit, Flint, Lansing, or so on, but he is responsible for appointing the emergency managers hired to deal with the financial problems of the city. The actions of the emergency managers reflect on Snyder as a whole. Right now, many Detroiters are not happy with the emergency manager and want their mayor, Mike Duggan, to get his powers of mayor back.

"Snyder thinks that same sex marriage should be determined legally rather than politically. Snyder wants it out of the hands of politicians like himself and in the hands of the courts who will determine the legality of same sex marriage." When I was talking about Snyder and his opinions on same-sex marriage, I was talking about his actual opinions. Does he support same-sex marriage, or is he opposed to it? He is reluctant to answer that question, and I believe the people of Michigan ought to know what he thinks.

I want to talk about the increase in pension tax that Snyder implemented. In 2011, Snyder pushed for and the state legislature passed a bill that imposed a $1.4 billion increase in income tax that raised taxes on homeowners, low-income earners and those on pensions, and froze a scheduled drop in the income tax rate. (3.) By increasing taxes on pensions, Snyder did spread the overall tax burden more widely. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but he hiked taxes on low-income earners and homeowners. These are the people who hurt more by tax hikes as opposed to multi-millionaires. That tax hike, to me, seems unfair.

1. http://www.mlive.com...
2. http://www.mcgeorge.edu...
3. http://www.mlive.com...
DarthVitiosus

Con

"What my opponent failed to mention is that the minimum per-pupil foundation allowance -- the money schools automatically get based on enrollment -- has dropped from an effective rate of $7,146 in 2011 to $7,026 in 2014. A large chunk of state education spending now is going to retirement costs and doesn't necessarily make it into the classroom."

My opponent throughout this debate has brought up the cut to the state education budget. Yet, my opponent never explained once what was the purpose of the money that was cut. Neither did my opponent explain what was productive about the money. What significant difference did that money make?

"While my opponent is correct that technically, the United States does not have a law saying, "water is a human right," my opponent doesn't realize that it considered a right in many parts of the world and that the U.S is moving to consider water a human right.Not only are the United States" arguments against declaring an international human right to water weak, especially given the fact that California has enacted a human right to water, the United States is already supporting the right"

My opponent has put his arrogance on display for us all to read. My opponent claimed that there are many countries in the world that declare "water is a human right." But notice, my opponent did not offer one example. This is a hasty generalization fallacy[1]. My opponent even goes further to claim that in the United States, the country is "moving to consider water is a human right. Again, he made another bold claim without any evidence to back up his claim. Then my opponent goes a step further by claiming my argument is "weak" because California has enacted water is a human right. My opponent has pointed to one out of fifty states and implies it is a strong example. This is another hasty generalization fallacyThe United States will not declare "water is a human right" because the United States was founded on negative rights, not positive rights[2]. The United States was founded on rights that protect from the government not rights that empower the government.

[1]http://www.nizkor.org...;
[2]https://www.nytimes.com...;

"The actions of the emergency managers reflect on Snyder as a whole. Right now, many Detroiters are not happy with the emergency manager and want their mayor, Mike Duggan, to get his powers of mayor back."
Detroit's need of an emergency manager is the reflection of the competence of Detroit citizens who are irresponsible for their own city. Detroit Democrats have dominated Detroit, tell them to fix it and not to fix it on the state of Michigan budget.

"That's not necessarily a bad thing, but he hiked taxes on low-income earners and homeowners. These are the people who hurt more by tax hikes as opposed to multi-millionaires. That tax hike, to me, seems unfair."

My opponent wants to have his cake and eat it. He claimed he doesn't want cuts to education at the same time he doesn't want taxes. This is contradictory since the budget is maintained off of Michigan taxpayers.

My opponent has not made any significant arguments for Mark Schauer. My opponent has failed to uphold the resolution, Vote Con please.
Debate Round No. 3
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