The Instigator
anniew168
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
rogue
Pro (for)
Winning
9 Points

Should Parents Lie About Santa Claus?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
rogue
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/29/2012 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,608 times Debate No: 21613
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (3)

 

anniew168

Con

We will once argue once my opponent accepts.

This is a Debate of Value.

First Round- Joining the Game
Second Round- Arguments
Third Round- Concession and Rebuttal
Debate Round No. 1
anniew168

Con

First, I would like to thank my opponent for joining this debate ( I also thought it was pretty cool that you posted a pic instead of saying "i accept or something like that".

First, I would like to talk to you about Santa. Christmas is now dedicated to a a guy who gives you presents. How about the real meaning on Christmas? What about spending time with family, eating a feast, enjoying life, and most importantly, celebrating Jesus's birthday? Instead, children and adolescents are wanting presents, and practically begging for something they want. What may not be so happy is that parents now have to rip open their wallets and buy things for their loved ones just so they can make their family be happy and not be mad at them for not getting something that they wanted. Also, most wouldn't say that they brought it and now Santa takes all the credit of shipping those presents.

Also, whats going to happen when the children get older? Children can't be children forever. They will grow up. Then will know the truth. And what's going to happen? Possibly guilt trips and lost of trust. In my opinion, the result is worser than what would happen if you didn't lie about Santa Claus.

Now I'm not saying we should get rid of Santa Claus forever. You can still tell stories about them. You don't have to lie. This would make Christmas a occasion full of joy.

I will be interested in what my opponent has to say.
rogue

Pro

I will develop my argument by commenting on some of Con's points.

"Christmas is now dedicated to a a guy who gives you presents. How about the real meaning on Christmas?"- That depends on what you believe the real meaning of Christmas is. The only universal message of Christmas is being generous, kind, and thankful. The story of a man working to give ALL kids, no matter their situation, presents when they deserve them is certainly a story of generosity and kindness. It also teaches kids that if you are good, you will be rewarded and that it is "good" to be good. Also if isn't as if people ignore the story of Jesus or all the other good Christmas stories like "A Christmas Carol" or "The Gift of the Magi."

"Instead, children and adolescents are wanting presents, and practically begging for something they want."- I think that is the fault of the parents spoiling their children and not raising them right, not lying to them about Santa. There is no correlation between parents lying about Santa Claus and children being greedy.

"What may not be so happy is that parents now have to rip open their wallets and buy things for their loved ones just so they can make their family be happy and not be mad at them for not getting something that they wanted."- Once again, that has nothing to do with lying about Santa. It is a cultural failure that people have come to expect presents on Christmas and believe that people don't love them if they don't get a present.

"most wouldn't say that they brought it and now Santa takes all the credit of shipping those presents."- Well what parent signs every gift "from Santa" and pretends to have gotten their child nothing? The child can't really appreciate what the parent did for them anyways. When they are older and know it wasn't Santa, they can.

"Possibly guilt trips and lost of trust."- Guilt trips? Why? Loss of trust a little bit, but what kid didn't get over it? Parents lie to their kids all the time, about the stork, about the parent's relationships, and many other things. Many times it is beneficial to lie to the child. Children are not mature to handle the truth all the time. When a lie gives children so much more fun from the magic of Christmas, I think we should keep that lie. Most kids are glad that their parents lied to them about Santa Claus when they get older cause they realize they enjoyed Christmas so much more because they believed in Santa.

I for one found Christmas more exciting because for once something magical was happening that the parents wouldn't disillusion. Santa is one of the only times we allow children to be unrealistic and believe in magic. We do it when they are children when they can still afford to do that. Children would not be half as excited on Christmas Eve if they weren't "waiting for Santa." Also Santa makes children work for their presents and then feel accomplished when they get them. Children get so excited when they see the cookies and milk gone in the morning. I wouldn't want to take that fun away from any child.
Debate Round No. 2
anniew168

Con

I will first refute my opponent's arguments and provide new ideas to the situation.

"Santa is one of the only times we allow children to be unrealistic and believe in magic."
  • I guess you're correct on how it would be fun for children to believe in magic. However, children can believe in Santa if they want to, parents can say their opinion on Santa. Children won't stop to ask, "Why don't you believe in Santa?" they would just go on with their ways.
"The child can't really appreciate what the parent did for them anyways. When they are older and know it wasn't Santa."
  • A "Thank You" would be nice and bring happiness to a parent. My little brother and I would always thank whoever gave us something to make them feel good.
  • Also, they will know that they're doing a great job at being a parent and will continue on the road of success. This will take some pressure off of them thinking that they're a horrible parent.
  • Even if the child at a older age does understand that it was their parent who gave them the present, they may had already forgotten about it, therefore, not being able to thank anyone but Santa, whom they thank years ago.
"That depends on what you believe the real meaning of Christmas is. The only universal message of Christmas is being generous, kind, and thankful."
  • If someone is thankful, they wouldn't spend a lot of time trying to get things, just for Christmas. Being thankful is to appreciate life and the things that you already have. Not to get new things that are supposed better than the things that you have now.
"...story of a man working to give ALL kids, no matter their situation, presents when they deserve them is certainly a story of generosity and kindness."
  • I would say that this is only partially true. Santa doesn't give to "ALL" kids. For example, if a kid accidentally did something wrong, they might think that they had just make it on to Santa's bad/naughty list, which puts pressure onto them, where as if you really did tell them that Santa isn't really real, then they won't worry about it as much and possibly solve the problem that they had just created.
"Many times it is beneficial to lie to the child. Children are not mature to handle the truth all the time."
  • I agree that children are mostly not mature enough to handle the truth at times. However, this situation has a completely new approach. If you didn't lie about Santa in the first place, then they wouldn't need to handle the truth.
"Children would not be half as excited on Christmas Eve if they weren't "waiting for Santa."
  • I believe the only reason why children are exited waiting for Santa is that they want the presents. I believe that if children just knew that their parents are going to give them presents, they will appreciate them more and still be as happy.
Why can't children just be grateful for the stuff that they have and just help they're parents instead of doing it for gifts?

Like I said, we don't have to get rid of Santa. We just have to tell the truth. Santa can appear in books, stories, or the tv, and still make children feel happy and learn about someone who is considerate of other people.

Or better yet, say Santa is real, with no lies. Tell them that their real name is Saint Nicholas.


rogue

Pro

I will begin with refutations.

"I guess you're correct on how it would be fun for children to believe in magic. However, children can believe in Santa if they want to, parents can say their opinion on Santa. Children won't stop to ask, "Why don't you believe in Santa?" they would just go on with their ways."- It makes it a lot less fun and a lot more doubtful if the parent says "No I don't believe in Santa Claus." Could the child even really understand the parent's complicated opinion(such as yours) anyway? If their parent doesn't believe in Santa, the child is very unlikely to. Children take everything their parents say to heart and as the truth when they are that young.

"A "Thank You" would be nice and bring happiness to a parent. My little brother and I would always thank whoever gave us something to make them feel good."- They can still thank their parents for the presents they give them while believing in Santa. Also, many kids thank Santa for their presents. They don't know it but they are thanking their parents. Do the parents really need that thanks directly? If the child doesn't thank anyone for their Christmas presents, it is the parents' fault for not teaching them to say thank you enough. It is not because they lied about Santa.

"Also, they will know that they're doing a great job at being a parent and will continue on the road of success. This will take some pressure off of them thinking that they're a horrible parent."- Why would the parents not do that anyway even if the child thanked Santa or didn't thank at all? Would they not do that anyways? Why would Santa impede on them doing this? Do the parents really need the thanks for every presents to keep being a good parent?

"Even if the child at a older age does understand that it was their parent who gave them the present, they may had already forgotten about it, therefore, not being able to thank anyone but Santa, whom they thank years ago."- The parents is Santa. Only a very immature parent would be so put off that Santa got thanked instead of them that they got upset or stopped being a good parent.

"If someone is thankful, they wouldn't spend a lot of time trying to get things, just for Christmas. Being thankful is to appreciate life and the things that you already have. Not to get new things that are supposed better than the things that you have now."- Being thankful for what you have doesn't mean you don't want more, it just means you also appreciate what you have. The point of Christmas isn't to try to "get" things, it is to be generous and GIVE to make others happy. My mom loves Christmas and she doesn't get many presents because there are very few things she actually wants and what she does want, she buys for herself. But she loves giving so much and seeing how happy people are who get her presents that Christmas is her favorite holiday. Brats who don't enjoy giving will probably not get presents cause people generally don't like them.

"I would say that this is only partially true. Santa doesn't give to "ALL" kids. For example, if a kid accidentally did something wrong, they might think that they had just make it on to Santa's bad/naughty list, which puts pressure onto them, where as if you really did tell them that Santa isn't really real, then they won't worry about it as much and possibly solve the problem that they had just created."- Um, no. The fear of being on the naughty list makes a child do more good to try to make up for the bad thing they did. The pressure to do good as a child is a good thing. It is a good habit to get in to have negative feelings at doing something wrong, while feeling rewarded for doing something good. Christmas reinforces that.

"I believe the only reason why children are exited waiting for Santa is that they want the presents. I believe that if children just knew that their parents are going to give them presents, they will appreciate them more and still be as happy."- I think that is completely untrue. If that were true, they wouldn't be excited at hearing hooves on the roof or seeing the cookies and milk gone or reading books and watching movies about Santa. Children are enthralled by the idea of a magical man visiting every child with his flying reindeer and his elves.

"Why can't children just be grateful for the stuff that they have and just help they're parents instead of doing it for gifts?"- They often are grateful and don't just do it for the gifts. Santa doesn't make them ungrateful. If anything it is getting the presents that might cause that but I still think it is the parents' fault for not teaching them to be grateful if they are ungrateful.

I think Con for debating this with me. But Con's assertions that Santa makes children ungrateful are largely unsupported and really don't make sense. Although I used no sources, psychology would largely support that it is the parents' influence that makes the child ungrateful, not believing in Santa Claus.
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by THEVIRUS 4 years ago
THEVIRUS
Posted by rogue 5 years ago
rogue
@johnwagner: You are just wrong. Avoiding the truth is a form of lying and shows just as much dishonesty. There is no way a child remembers every lie or even feels said at every lie, because they don't remember it as a lie. If they do remember the lie, often when they are older they appreciate why their parents lied to them and aren't hurt by it. There is nothing wrong with lying to a child when the situation is necessary. A child is not able to handle all the different parts of life at first. They are not mature enough. It isn't as simple as "lying to a child is always wrong." While I think one should only lie to a child when it is appropriate, it is certainly not as harmful as you are making it out to be most of the time.
Posted by johnwagner 5 years ago
johnwagner
Commenting on this statement: "Many times it is beneficial to lie to the child. Children are not mature to handle the truth all the time."

I emphatically disagree with this harmful practice! A child will always remember the lie. It may not be a harbored memory but it will come to the fore whenever an association is made concerning the incident and it could well result in a wound that may never heal.

Instead of lying, it would be better to avoid that confrontation by postponing your reply for a time when an explanation would be better received. If that is impossible [which is usually never the case] the truth, presented in a loving and considerate fashion, is the safest. Children can handle the truth much easier than a lie from their parents. Consoling and support after hearing the truth is easily affected but a lie does not wash very well. Do the right thing.
Posted by DakotaKrafick 5 years ago
DakotaKrafick
RFD* (and now I know what that abbreviation means lol)
Posted by DakotaKrafick 5 years ago
DakotaKrafick
My God... that was the best RDF I've ever seen 16kadams give...
Posted by rogue 5 years ago
rogue
Oh yeah...I never thought of that...I hate the style text. Sorry! And I am happy to see you fairly voting!
Posted by kyro90 5 years ago
kyro90
The pic was pretty funny, I saw the link and was like, Wtf? Then I laughed so hard when I saw what it was. xD
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
rouge may I ask you bold the quotes so I can read it better? XD
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Multi_Pyrocytophage 5 years ago
Multi_Pyrocytophage
anniew168rogueTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: I found several of Con's arguments not being relevant to the topic at hand, and thought Pro presented a better case.
Vote Placed by PeacefulChaos 5 years ago
PeacefulChaos
anniew168rogueTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: A large amount of Con's arguments had to do with the parenting of children in general and not the specific topic at hand. For example, she said that children are greedy because all they are looking forward to is Christmas. Pro effectively showed that this is not true, because children enjoy the idea of a magical man with magical elves, or seeing their cookies gone in the morning. She also showed that telling kids about Santa does not cause greediness; therefore, Pro has won this debate.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
anniew168rogueTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: She effectively refuted her opponents arguments on the definition of Christmas as well as most other arguments. She also disproved cons arguments and defense of arguments. Also many of cons args had nothing to do with lying about santa, hence pro won.