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Should RIDE create a plan to encourage greater economic integration in schools?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/20/2016 Category: Education
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 175 times Debate No: 85266
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (2)
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Claim #1
Everyone benefits when wealthy and poor kids are equally integrated.
According to my data, being separated is causing more harm than good since it seems that the higher the property value, the higher the graduation rate. For instance, South Kingstown property value is $1,320,425.48 and their graduation rate is 91.5%, while Providence has a property value of $378,009.90 and graduation rate of 56.3%. One may argue that their graduation rate is so low not because of how much money they have, but because of their intelligence. But children attending lower- poverty schools performed 8% better than higher- poverty schools. A research suggested that an effective way of closing the achievement gap is to give low- income students the chance to attend middle class schools. This was proven when low income students in Montgomery County did better when they attended a wealthier elementary school.
Claim #2
Students should be mixed economically just like they were mixed racially by the courts in the past.
In the past, courts had the power to reduce racial discrimination in schools. In 1954, Brown Vs Board stated that separate can"t be equal. When the racially imbalance schools issue wasn"t being addressed, parents took matter into their own hands which created a chaos.
Charter schools haven"t been a good plan to create equality in RI.
From 2008-2009 school year to 2012-2013 the number of free lunch eligible students went up dramatically. For instance, G. Harold Hunt School went from 24% free lunch to 86% which means that the wealthiest students were leaving the most economically disadvantaged schools to attend charted schools.


Claim#1- When the government gets involved, bad things happen.

Desegregation plans ordered by the court cause more harm than good. Courts are powerless to combat prejudice. Any doubts about schooling should be solved by the communities as well as schools that should not be used as battlegrounds to address inequality and discrimination.
Claim#2- We are already doing things to improve education for individual students in RI.

There is an advantage which comes from flexibility and narrowly focused programs that allow Charter schools to tailor every aspect of their education to ELL students. It is working because there is a positive effect for ELL students in Charter schools. This positive effect equals to a 0.07 standard deviation (SD) in reading and 0.03(SD) in math.
Claim#3- The government contributions to segregation lead to chaos.

Six years after the state passed the Racial Imbalance Act there was an increase in the number of racially imbalanced schools in Boston from 46 to 65. Since suburban districts cannot be included in desegregation plans, students would not be able to be sent out of Boston to other schools. Also any policy on race is a violation of every child"s 14th- amendment right.
Debate Round No. 1


1. If school is a place in where children get an education, why shouldn"t they be used to address inequality?

2.In your second claim, what does the first sentence in your evidence mean?

3. What is a standard deviation?

4.Why couldn"t suburban districts be included in desegregation plans?

5.How is a policy based on race violating a child"s 14th amendment right?


1. Why does having a great property value lead to a great graduation rate unlike having a low property value lead to a low graduation rate?

2. Why may some people argue that their graduation rate is so low not because of how much money they have, but because of their intelligence?

3. How were the courts able to reduce racial discrimination in schools?

4. What makes "wealthy" schools any different from "economically disadvantaged" schools?
Debate Round No. 2


1.Great property value means how much money the homes are worth depending the area. This has a connection with a great graduation rate because it means that one comes from a wealthy neighborhood, meaning there are wealthy schools. Unlike low property value towns in where low- poverty schools are located where not a great education is given.
2.Coming from a prosperous family, or background could have a huge impact on one"s future. In the opposite hand, if you come from a low income family one may look at one differently and suggest that one won"t have such a bright future. They would judge you from the way your life is set up. For instance, if one lives in the projects someone would probably think that you would not get out of there and just keep the chain going. This has nothing to do with your intelligence, but because of your background. If you change your background, and get out of the "hood" people might look at you from a different perspective.
3.In the past, many things were done to reduce racial discrimination in schools. In 1954, the Boston Vs Brown case concluded that the young girl, who walked across town to attend a black school, could attend a white school right across her street. Also in the 1960s, the Racial Imbalance Act required districts to desegregate schools therefore; Operation Exodus began busing more than 400 students daily from overcrowded black schools to schools in white communities.
4.There is a huge difference between wealthy schools and economically disadvantaged schools. Wealthy schools hire better and more teachers. They manage to afford extra resources like advanced technologies that allow a better teaching. However, cash- strapped schools sometimes can"t afford to fix damaged infrastructure.


1. Yes, school is a place in where children get an education, which is why it should not be used to address inequality since it could involve and bring harm to the children.
2. In my second claim, the first sentence of my evidence means that Charter Schools have the advantage of focused programs which allows them to project their education fully to ELL students.
3. In this case, the standard deviation shows a small positive change away from the average.
4. When Boston was desegregating the Supreme Courts stated that suburban districts could not be included in desegregation plans.
5. A policy based on race is violating a child's 14th Amendment states that everyone is equal.
Debate Round No. 3


Rebuttal #1

Your claim number one lacks of evidence. You stated that "when the government gets involve, bad things happen", to later support your statement by saying that "any doubts about schooling should be solved by the communities as well as schools that should not be used as battlegrounds to address inequality and discrimination", but this is incorrect. If things were ever left for communities to solve, then nothing would ever get done. People think differently, therefore they wouldn't have a peaceful agreement on anything. When the Racial Imbalance Act was passed the METCO program began busing students in Boston to suburban schools to allow them to get a better education. This brought many difficulties to everyone, when Black students were bused to White neighborhoods to attend their school; they were being abused and put in danger. Buses would get thrown rocks at and students would tell them to never come back. But because of the court decision, they needed to go back. This is why such program was a success. If the court would've never stepped in, then do you think the community would have made a plan to address inequality?

Rebuttal #2

Claim number two states that "we are already doing things to improve education for individual students in RI" and that one of these things includes Charter Schools. According to your data, Charter Schools have a positive effect on standard deviation for ELL students. But there are things better than that. John Hattie, an educational researcher, found that mastery learning has a positive effect size of 0.58 SD, and bilingual programs have an effect size of 0.37 SD, which are both being done In the Providence School Department. Also, like I previously mentioned in one of my claims, Charter Schools aren't the best way to address inequality in Rhode Island, wealthier students are leaving Providence Public Schools to attend Charter schools.

Rebuttal #3

Claim number three, is mostly support for you claim number one. Back in 1960s, after the Racial Imbalance Act was passed, racially imbalanced schools in Boston did increase from 46 to 65, but courts didn't just stop fighting to address inequality. The Massachusetts Department of Education told them that they wouldn't give Boston Public Schools any state money if they didn't address such issue.


In your claim number one, you projected that "everyone benefits when wealthy and poor kids are equally integrated", by then backing it up by talking about property value, graduation rate, and performance of schools. It was not such a great idea to have stated the opposing side of when there is a greater property value, there is a higher graduation rate and when there is a low property value, the graduation rate is low as well. That weakens your claim because it showed that the low graduation rate was not because of the low property value but because of their "intelligence" and leading to a self-contradiction. Also, integrating wealthy and poor kids would not benefit low-poverty schools since they would be attending to "middle class schools" as you stated.
Your second claim states that "students should be mixed economically just like they were mixed racially by the courts in the past", leaving you in a position where you just supported one side which was the less important one. That makes your evidence not match completely with your claim. The side that you supported is the one when students were mixed racially, which makes the first part of your claim: "students should be mixed economically" sound as an unsupported opinion. Also, you talked about when the "racially imbalanced schools issue" was not addressed that parents decided to do something by themselves which created "chaos", but you did not state what they did.
The last and third claim stated that "Charter schools haven"t been a good plan to create equality in RI." You had basically said that because wealthy students prefer going to a Charter school it would make a separation poor and wealthy. Therefore, since the wealthy students would be leaving "economically disadvantaged schools" there would mainly be not so wealthy students left. Also you wrote about the percentage increase of free lunch of G. Harold Hunt. But one school increasing its rate does not tell the whole story as well as during that time students were being reorganized to different schools. So it was not all based on the wealthy students leaving to Charter schools.
Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by juleisytejada1 9 months ago

This debate was prepared to be formatted equally.
It was being done to the purpose of everyone doing it as a final grade for our History class.
Therefore, your statement of having both accounts controlled by the same person is incorrect.
Posted by PointyDelta 9 months ago
This is a rather interesting farce.

Both accounts are almost certainly controlled by the same person...
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