The Instigator
ReligionCrusher
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Debater930
Pro (for)
Winning
9 Points

Should Religion Exist

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Debater930
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/21/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 447 times Debate No: 78891
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (3)

 

ReligionCrusher

Con

Honestly I believe that religion is a sham that some drunk moron made from a book millennial ago. Religion is the main reason for so many wars and deaths. Even the wars of today are caused by religion. Religion also caused inequality between sex and race. Woman are treated like garbage everywhere because of it. Negro people were shunned and tortured just because of their skin color. Religion is also what made half of humanity morons. Child raping Priests are debating whether it's okay to be homosexual while others are trying to learn and explore REAL THINGS. Everyone knows that we could have lived without the dark age. And worst of all, all these religious believers don't even follow the bible "correctly." Cause I don't see people killing atheists or not eating meat. Religion is only here because we have a bunch of morons too scared to find the truth only instead filling it with a measly word cause they're too stupid to try to comprehend the facts.
Debater930

Pro

There is a difference between religion and the people who follow it. Religion is just a fallback for people who need to find faith in something greater than themselves, whether it's faith in moral guidance, supreme beings, or certain lifestyles. Religion can indeed be seen as a necessity for those who have nothing else to fallback onto. During the Dark Ages, the reason religion spread like wildfire is because many countries were poverty ridden and sprawling with illnesses we cannot imagine having today. Everything seemed terrible, and religion was the last ounce of light that gave people a sense of hope and an urge to carry on their days. If I told you that you had the opportunity to see an afterlife filled with everything you've ever liked, and all you had to do was believe in it, would you not follow it? The problem is not with religion, but with its teachers. It is a spawn for sociopaths who seek to manipulate people into wrongdoing. But if people are cognitively aware of the world they live in, they should also have a sense of rectitude and know when to trust a book over a person who reads the book for you. But with regards to the main argument, I believe religion should exist, it just should not be a choice of absolutes ("either you follow and you go to hell, or you do and you go to heaven" scheming that people try and claim). Some times you need a little faith to do some of the most extraordinary things, even some renowned scientists were religious because they needed that extra guidance in their duties.

And with regards to religions that have just absurd beliefs (sadism, etc.), I think we are both aware that they are childish in their forms and can be disregarded for this argument. There will always just be those extreme views for any situation.
Debate Round No. 1
ReligionCrusher

Con

See though that people shouldn't need to hold to an imaginary being just to feel good. Nothing is solved grasping illusions but instead they need to walk the extra mile to grasp truth and strength in life, even at the cost of scars. The dark ages also began after the fall of the empire after political and religious beliefs were confused and so the empire fell and the dark ages began. Believers put that on themselves. While the leader of the religion, let's say "God" was a man who murdered almost a million people (Not including the great flood) by either not believing in his exact religion or fighting against people in his religion. Heck 42 boys were mauled just for calling a man badly. While also at the same time, the radicals are the people who lead and shape the religion that others see. Like ISIS could've been okay if they weren't trying to kill everyone of different beliefs. Even 9/11 (disclosing conspiracy theories) happened because America didn't follow the rules of another religion. Honestly I'd rather be alive than have debates and wars so the few non-fighters of religion can feel better about life.
Debater930

Pro

Well, the argument of what is real and what is illusion is for a different topic.

Regardless, some people are in desperate need of feeling good, would you rather they subside the problem with drugs, alcohol, or other substances? In many cases a seemingly imaginary being is a much safer route for people to follow, than the physical realities of this world. With reference to Islam, I am not very proficient enough to start a debate about that religion, and I do think that is also a bit too specific for the overall subject of this debate. I believe firmly, however, that you would agree with the existence of a true religion, if it were an advocate of good moral standings. In other words, I believe you would also advocate the necessity of religion, if there were an ideal set of beliefs that all humans could agree upon (one that brings out a sense of rectitude). To agree with some of your points, I do acknowledge that religion has a dirty past, but that goes without saying for many world views. Capitalism, Communism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, etc. are all ideologies that have both followers who choose to use it for good and those who use it for bad.

Lets just take a possible situation where religion just didn't exist at all, how much do you think the world would really change? The people who kill behind religion are either one of two people. 1. They are people who are easily manipulated into a cause they think is just or 2. They are the manipulators who know how stupid people can be.

Do you really think without religion that these people still wouldn't exist and that everything would be sunshine and rainbows?

From my point of view, of course not, they just happen to use religion as a justification for simple killings. With that said, religion does quite as much off the records. I have seen countless situations where religion was a means for redemption from a terrible lifestyle, whether people put themselves there or they were born into it. So why should it hurt to keep religions that accentuate good living? Remember, it's not about the religion, it's about the people. Some people hate American culture so much that I guarantee you they didn't need Islam to find a reason to attack American citizens on their own soil. Some people hated the Muslims so much, that they didn't Christianity to find a reason to rape and pillage the Middle East under the title of Crusader. That, my friend, is the illusion.
Debate Round No. 2
ReligionCrusher

Con

Even if there is a wrong fixed by a right the wrong has still occured hasn't it? For example Hitler led a large group of people blindly believing him and he was the reason for the deaths of millions. But Hitler also stopped inflation in a dying country and also put hope into the the hearts of millions now didn't he? They sound almost exactly the same. But besides that point killing no matter using religion or no religion as an excuse the killing is done so there is no point to it. But at the same time sure if religion had good morals it would be great and many more would believe. But there would be political wars anyways and guess what? There is no such thing as a religion with only good morals so it's still an overall con now isn't it? So why have it then if the cons are higher than the pro's?
Debater930

Pro

From your previous statements and inquiries, it seems that you are currently only focusing on the negative aspects of religion (the moments in which sociopaths rose to power and were able to use it to their advantage because the followers did not truly understand their religion's guiding values). This was most evident when you stated "But at the same time sure if religion had good morals it would be great and many more would believe". There are indeed many religions with good morals and also a great many more people who are aware of what they're believing in. Although I am an Apatheist, I do recognize Christianity and Judaism as strong examples of religions that contain good morals. The Commandments advocate for some of the most basic moral decisions (don't lie, cheat or steal). Of course there are some flaws, like being denied the right to eat ham, but that's because those religions predate to a point where civilization was still a fresh idea, and guided by one smart person rather than many.

Remember, there are always mediums that people use as a scapegoat to justify killing (religion, video games, social media, education, etc.). That does not make those things inherently bad, just inherently unlucky that immoral people choose to use those things to their advantage.

Rarely are the cons higher than the pros, they tend to be fairly balanced if you choose to see both sides clearly, and find that there's more than one way to approach a solution to a problem. Removing religion would be devastating to people, if anything you would find more blood spilled over that, than by just keeping it and allowing people to find some form of redemption through it. Religion helps people who are on the brink of being completely lost to society, from inmates to drug addicts religion paves a path to a greater lifestyle (maybe not the greatest, but still greater than most). I attended a religious school during 1st and 2nd Grade, and I can tell you now that that was all I needed to tell right from wrong up until this point, to this day my character is still the result of a few good words in a book. So it is what you make of it, but overall I do think it is something this world still needs.
Debate Round No. 3
ReligionCrusher

Con

When I was young I grew up with good morals without religion being involved because my parents were non-believers. Good morals didn't start from religion at all, but I do agree that religion has made these morals more popular among the people. Honestly Christianity has good morals and also morals that are shunned by society today do to the fact that many of the morals are illegal. Judaism is okay except for the fact that they have most egotistical believers and most don't have proper educations which hurts society still but in a non-physical manner. But let's have it this way, when we were on the brink of extinction over 10,000 years ago, we were small clans of around 8-10 that hunted for our daily food and all the harsh things before civilization came along which there was no religion. These people lived with bare willpower. So are we mentally weaker than our ancestors after religion and civilization came to? Honestly just on my own status I hate being weak at anything. If anything religion has helped along with other things to make the human race mentally weaker (Not dumber but less mental strength).
Debater930

Pro

It may not seem that religion existed that long ago, but it most likely did. It was generally polytheism, and it was still existent even thousands of years ago. Whether we are mentally weaker really depends on how you interpret the purpose of life. Is it to live simply or to aspire to achieve the best things we can physically do? If the former, then yes, modern age man is weak because we now rely on so many other things than just a few tools to get tonight's dinner. If the latter, we trump early humans in every possible way, we now have projectiles that easily kill animals as opposed to hoping they bleed out after a few arrows/spears.

So how does religion play into this? Well, in some cases I can see your point that religion can make people weaker, because it's a very "dumbed down" version of how to live righteously. This means that some people only remain on the level of religion, refusing to believe anything else outside of it. Then there are those who choose to use it as a reference for their conscious decisions, the people who choose to make a better use out of it. I can't really stress enough that it's not so much religion that causes problems, it's humanity. Some people lack the willpower to make anything out of themselves, and they therefore resort to barbaric ways of living. You've clearly decided that you don't need religion to get you places in life, which is completely understandable, but sometimes we must think about other people beside ourselves. There are countless people who do need religion, whether we want to acknowledge it or not.
Debate Round No. 4
ReligionCrusher

Con

ReligionCrusher forfeited this round.
Debater930

Pro

>>> skip >>>
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by missmedic 1 year ago
missmedic
Christianity works to enslave the minds of people. It convinces that you're afflicted by Primal Sin. It tells you that it is the only way to salvation, because it's the only religion that washes away your sins. That is, cures you of the illness it first claimed you're aflicted with. Christianity emphasizes the importance of belief itself. Only if you believe the dogma of religion will you be saved. This clever trick forces you to hesitate to even think about questioning the basic claims of the religion, It is designed to shut down your naturally inquiring, skeptical mind, and block any internal criticism of the religion. Religion is unnecessary. The more you know the less you believe.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by roguetech 1 year ago
roguetech
ReligionCrusherDebater930Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Not a single source. Few facts, aside from vague overly broad claims regarding "the Dark Ages".
Vote Placed by asi14 1 year ago
asi14
ReligionCrusherDebater930Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: I am a bit biased given I am a Christian, but I tried my best to see this debate from a third party. I could tell pro was going to win, given the pro's superior usage of analytics over the con's, plus the con's forfeiture of the last round. Given debate.org's stance against religion-- in particular Christianity-- I think this debate is saying something, that this forum isn't all atheist.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
ReligionCrusherDebater930Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con ff a round, so conduct to Pro.