The Instigator
Palin2012
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Danielle
Con (against)
Winning
24 Points

Should Sarah Palin Run for President in 2012?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Danielle
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/20/2010 Category: Politics
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,340 times Debate No: 14101
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (2)
Votes (4)

 

Palin2012

Pro

I believe that Sarah Palin would be a great Presidential candidate in 2012. She has captured my attention a lot lately, and I have become very fond of her views, and her personal life as well. She is a true American who is trying to run a government that is not corrupt under other Presidents and get us out of this recession.

She is much criticized for the thing she says, merely because she isn't afraid to speak her mind and not from a script. A lot of the good, honest, truthful things she says are what she believes in and respects but that all gets twisted and turned by the lame stream media. She has the right beliefs for the country to become something more than what it is and she is the woman help make it become that.

Sarah was Alaska's most popular Governor and since the 2008 VP run, her ratings have went down. ( http://www.weeklystandard.com... ) She speaks her mind and not the lame, old, political mush that every other politician says to mesmerize you. She had approval ratings of 90% in Alaska when she was Governor, and where else do you see a governor today getting those high ratings? Really no where. ( http://www.nationalledger.com... )

Many criticize her now for her new show, "Sarah Palin's Alaska" that travels with her family around Alaska (8 weeks the show is, each Sunday on TLC at 9 p.m.) to show how much fun activities there are to do. This show garnered 5 million viewers the first episode and has been averaging 3.5 million views each week. (It is currently on episode 5 this week). ( http://tlc.discovery.com... )

So in the end, Sarah Palin DOES have the experience, and the right things to become our country's next great President. She is an inspiration to many and has the right ideas to get this country moving forward! I hope to see more of her through my life and would love to have her has our next President in 2012!

*I am new to this debate site so please bare with me, thanks! :)
Danielle

Con

I'd like to thank my opponent for this debate and welcome him to DDO.

I'll begin by citing the reasons Pro's given for supporting Palin's 2012 presidental run:

1. She is a candid speaker with the "right beliefs" for the country

2. She used to be Alaska's most popular Governor

3. A lot of people watch her TV show

4. Sarah Palin has experience

First, whether or not Palin speaks candidly or even passionately has no bearing on her ability to be a good president. In fact our current president was given much attention and respect largely in part due to his ability to speak well, though 37% still consider him to be a bad president [1]. Hitler was also considered a great speaker; it didn't necessarily make him a good leader. Nevertheless it's fallacious for my opponent to suggest Palin's got the "right" beliefs for this country, as that is a completely subjective and merely opinionated statement. For instance she is unabashedly pro-life whereas I am pro-rights, so it's presumptuous to say Palin's the one with the "right" ideals.

Second, as my opponent points out, Sarah Palin's approval rating has gone down. It's true that at first she was a popular governor; however, it seems that after people started paying attention they fell out of love with the attractive politician. All of a sudden she was surrounded by ethics complaints, criticized for her executive decisions such as appointment of Attorney General, etc. [2]. In other words she lost a lot of her political swagger and credibility. I don't see why this works in her favor as for her running for president in 2012. Furthermore many see Palin quitting as Alaska's governor instead of trying to be the best governor she could be after Mc'Cain's loss as cowardly and reflective of spineless leadership.

Next, garnering a measly 3.5 million viewers for her pointless television show is completely irrelevant and has absolutely no bearing on her political achievements, policy or capacity. That's like suggesting Lady Gaga, because she's a popular entertainer, ought to run for office because people enjoy watching her. Clearly that's unsound.

Finally, stating something akin to "therefore Palin has experience" seems like a bare assertion on my opponent's part. Palin was criticized when nominated for VP by John McCain in 2008, and has done nothing politically since then to garner more experience to make her any more qualified for *president* of the United States.

As far as reasons Palin should probably not run, I'll begin by noting that in doing so her biggest competitor regardless of what party she represented would probably be Barack Obama. Considering many consider Sarah Palin the reason John McCain lost to Obama the first time around, I see no reason to assume that Palin would be any more in a position to beat Obama this time - especially since many of the same criticisms of her still apply (such as lack of political experience). In fact more criticisms can be added to her list, such as what I mentioned regarding her quitting her job as governor of Alaska. That does not set a good example.

Moreover it would be very easy to discredit Palin and continue to make her appear green. It's also easy to vilify her by her choices and association. For instance, Palin favors drilling for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and her inauguration was sponsored by BP. Are her political choices dependent on where her campaign donations come from? It would appear so. Nevertheless Palin has been widely criticized for her seeming lack of basic knowledge (i.e. the name of several media sources or Founding Fathers); her being caught in lies about support for the Bridge to Nowhere; her attempts to ban books as mayor of Wasilla; support of Christine O'Donnell whom many even on the Right consider questionable; etc.

According to the Associated Press, Palin sought $197 million in so-called "earmarks" for Alaska in 2009. In the previous budget year, she asked for earmarks worth $256 million [3]. Considering Palin would be running for either the Republican or more likely Tea Party, this would not look good on her resume as she would be expected to be very fiscally conservative by her own declaration. Seeing these figures makes her appear a liar.

It's also no secret that while all presidents thus far have been at least nominally religious, they remain mostly secular in their policy and decision making. However Palin's made comments that allude to her wishing to ignore the fundamental separation of Church and State in our representative democracy [4]. While one is certainly allowed to have religious conviction, to push one's morality too heavily upon another via law is unconstitutional and would seemingly make Palin an irresponsible and selfish leader.

Sarah Palin has no foreign policy experience or credibility. She seems to care more about the media and frivolous popularity than politics. We can't ignore that she's demonstrated little to no ability to recognize current world or even national events, as this has been highlighted and even teased about sensationally. Palin's been heavily criticized and made fun of for her inability to answer simple and important questions cohesively as well [5]. It seems Palin has nothing significant to offer as U.S. president.

I'll conclude with a quote from Peggy Noonan in the Wall Streer Journal -- "There is little sign that [Palin] has the tools, the equipment, the knowledge or the philosophical grounding one hopes for and expects in a holder of high office."

[1] http://www.rasmussenreports.com...
[2] http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
[3] http://womenagainstsarahpalin.org...
[4] http://www. [spaced to remove video] youtube.com/watch?v=O9HxmAudQM4
[5] http://www.washingtonmonthly.com...
Debate Round No. 1
Palin2012

Pro

Thanks for accepting my debate and since this is my first, I don't think I will be winning!

Sarah Palin was a popular governor because of the things she did. She took of the corrupt government spending and the big oil companies. She stated this in her book and is known to show that she is fierce and willing to take on the big companies. Yes Palin may be attractive, but that is no reason to approve of your governor and I think that there Alaskans knew that when they elected her in 2006. She took on the status quo that did nothing in Alaska and got things done when she was there. ( http://www.foxnews.com... ). Just because she cut projects that were WASTEFUL and called for OUTRAGEOUS SPENDING, doesn't make her bad or stupid. It makes her smart, and doing the right thing for the right reasons.

I do see your point for my talk about her television show and I'm not sure why I added it in there...

Sarah Palin has the right ideas to help move this country forward as far as what she believes in and what great things she would do for this country. She does have political experience because clearly she was a MAYOR AND GOVERNOR!!! Sarah Palin DOES have experience. How can people say she doesn't when she was the Wasilla Alaska City Council, Mayor of Wasilla, and then Governor of Alaska! How is that not experience? President Obama merely only served 3 terms as a State Senator and US Senator of Illinois. You hear more of what Gov. Palin did than nothing Pres. Obama did as a Senator. She did great things as Governor as I've said and she didn't just quit. She did what she thought was right for her state and after being what she went through, would you do the same? If you ever read her book, you will find out what she went through and the reasons she resigned from office.

Palin choose the things she does because she knows what is right. The debate of drilling in the ANWR has been ongoing since 1977 and nothing has come to light as to if it would be a logical thing to do. Just because SHE SUPPORTS the issue, doesn't mean everyone else has to or that they would ever agree with her. Just because Sarah makes some silly little mistakes when she talks, doesn't mean that she's stupid, or whatever you want to think. We are human beings and we ALL make mistakes. (Like electing Obama). She also NEVER tried to ban book in Wasilla as well. ( http://abcnews.go.com... ).

Sarah Palin along with many other Americans, don't have to be good speakers to be President. Who ever said that they will only elect a President who isn't afraid to speak clearly and all political crap that no one wants to hear? Palin speaks her mind about the issues this country faces and she's not afraid to say whatever, however about them.

This could be debatable as well, but Sarah could be more "Hollywood" famous than "politically" famous, merely because she's trying to show Americans who she really is in a way no one else has done before. She has a TV show that was filmed in August and it shows her life in a different view, and there are some little political points that people have picked out. She has written 2 amazing books about her life, views and beliefs and many people love these books. It is a different "strategy" to gather peoples attention because they are sick and tired of old lame stream politics that is currently going on.

"Don't retreat, just reload" - Sarah Palin
Danielle

Con

Thanks, Pro.

Pro begins his round by contending Sarah Palin cut spending when she was Governor. After misleading the public by saying she told Congress "thanks but no thanks" regarding the so-called Bridge to Nowhere, media fact-checkers note Palin advocated for the federal earmark before opposing it, only ended after Congress had essentially killed it, and kept the $223 million for the appropriation after the project was killed [1]. This doesn't sound like she cared so much about outrageous spending.

Further, while claiming to be a "reformer" Palin billed the state of Alaska $17,059 for "per diem" travel expenses for 312 nights she spent at her home in Wasilla [5]. Worse, she didn't report the money on her income tax [6]. Palin also accepted gifts valued at $25,367 from industry executives, municipalities and a cultural center whose board includes officials from some of the largest mining interests in the state [7]. Pro insists that Sarah Palin is so fiscally conservative, though Alaska ranks first in federal spending received per resident. Its ratio of federal spending received to federal taxes paid ranks third among the 50 states, and in the absolute amount it receives from Washington over and above the amount it sends to Washington, Alaska ranks No. 1 according to TIME magazine [8]. This was all under Palin's leadership.

Next Pro insists that Sarah Palin has experience. However she was merely a part-time mayor of a tiny town, and governor of one of the least populous states for less than two years. Her role as mayor was incredibly different from say Rudy Giuliani's presiding over New York City with an 8 million plus population (which is bigger than many small countries). Moreover Palin was not even a good mayor of that small town. During her first year she was engaged in many personnel conflicts, a thwarted attempt to pack the City Council and a standoff with her local newspaper [2]. The Wall Street Journal notes that the sports complex she pushed through was tangled in expensive lawsuits among other problems [3]. Palin even made Wasilla rape victims pay for their own rape kits [4]! A Wasilla resident comments, "Far from being a fiscal conservative, Palin left Wasilla in debt, was intolerant of divergent opinions and has bitten the hand of every person who extended theirs to her in help" [12].

Sarah Palin is not familiar with foreign leaders, and lacks the cultural knowledge and experience to maintain serious relationships with global leaders. Sarah Palin "doesn't have any foreign policy credentials" Republican Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska told the Omaha World-Herald [10]. She's even said the U.S. should "perhaps" go to war with Russia [11]. It's bad enough she's pro war in Iraq (which she calls "a task from God" [9] - another clue that she's over--zealous with her religion in policy decision making); we don't need her suggesting we go to war with Russia! Clearly this woman lacks any credibility whatsoever in terms of her foreign policy ability. It's not so much that she's a bad speaker so much as she simply does not have a good grasp of American (or any) politics.

I'd also like to note that Pro's own source from ABC actually *confirms* Palin trying to ban books, or acting unscrupulously in the process. The article details a librarian telling Palin she would not ban any books, and Palin subsequently firing her for not being "loyal" to the new administration [13]. It's ironic that a front runner of the Tea Party which allegedly values liberty so much would attempt to ban free speech.

Nevertheless Pro continues, "Sarah Palin has the right ideas to help move this country forward as far as what she believes in and what great things she would do for this country." I've already explained that it's completely presumptuous and nothing but opinion that Palin has the "right" ideas. Pro says, "Palin chooses the things she does because she knows what is right." Once again I personally have fundamental ideological differences with Sarah Palin; why should we accept Pro's assertion that she knows what is right? Perhaps Sarah Palin is all wrong about many things (as many people believe). Hitler also believed he was doing the right thing.

My opponent concludes by saying Palin might be trying to market herself in a new way by giving the public a glimpse of her life via television and memoir. I believe actions speak louder than words; a candidate should speak through their political endeavors -- not just painting us a pretty Hollywood picture that gets good ratings, or an edited, watered down book that obviously seeks to portray Palin in the best light -- not necessarily provide the truth.

All the evidence points to Palin being a poor candidate. So far I don't see why Sarah Palin should make a run for the presidency in 2012.

[1] http://www.factcheck.org...
[2] http://seattletimes.nwsource.com...
[3] http://online.wsj.com...
[4] http://www.bostonherald.com...
[5] http://www.washingtonpost.com...
[6] http://www.npr.org...
[7] http://www.washingtonpost.com...
[8] http://www.time.com...
[9] http://www.theonion.com...
[10] http://news.bbc.co.uk...
[11] http://www. [spaced to remove video] youtube.com/watch?v=khfCOMuWap0
[12] http://www.adn.com...
[13] http://abcnews.go.com...
Debate Round No. 2
Palin2012

Pro

Palin2012 forfeited this round.
Danielle

Con

It seems my opponent has decided to close his account, so there's not much to say except please extend my arguments...
Debate Round No. 3
Palin2012

Pro

Palin2012 forfeited this round.
Danielle

Con

My opponent has forfeited. Extend my arguments.
Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Postup10101 6 years ago
Postup10101
Hmmm well you know how some people think the world will end in 2012? Well, that's because Palin has a possibility of being president :P
Posted by Freeman 6 years ago
Freeman
RFD:

Arguments and sources to Con. Pro's arguments were silly. Conduct to con for the forfeits.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by nhq 6 years ago
nhq
Palin2012DanielleTied
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Vote Placed by Freeman 6 years ago
Freeman
Palin2012DanielleTied
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Vote Placed by PARADIGM_L0ST 6 years ago
PARADIGM_L0ST
Palin2012DanielleTied
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Vote Placed by Danielle 6 years ago
Danielle
Palin2012DanielleTied
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