The Instigator
JoshuaWright
Pro (for)
Losing
9 Points
The Contender
Spiral
Con (against)
Winning
24 Points

Should The "Cane" and other forms of corporal punishment be brought back into the education system?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/19/2008 Category: Education
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,718 times Debate No: 4092
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (20)
Votes (11)

 

JoshuaWright

Pro

Its one of those age old questions that we all ask ourselves, should we bring back the cain? Older generations agree with it, younger generations disagree. However, As a part of the younger generation (im only 16) i beleive we SHOULD bring back the cain, and other forms of corporal punishment.

My first point, is that of discipline. Discipline has been around since man himself. I believe discipline is they key to success. Without discipline, and self-discipline, a person cannot survive in the world as we know it today. I beleive that todays youths, are out of control. Without proper discipline, todays youth, which will one day be running the world, will spiral out of control.

I will await furhter opposition and points of interest to further my second argument.
Spiral

Con

Firstly a bit of re-wording

The "Cane" and other forms of corporal punishment should be brought back into the education system.

"My first point, is that of discipline. Discipline has been around since man himself. I believe discipline is they key to success. Without discipline, and self-discipline, a person cannot survive in the world as we know it today. I beleive that todays youths, are out of control. Without proper discipline, todays youth, which will one day be running the world, will spiral out of control."

We can discard your opening argument for the exaggeration it is, unless you have anthropological evidence from the start of mankind to show us all.

"Without proper discipline, todays youth, which will one day be running the world, will spiral out of control."

This is nothing more than a slippery slope fallacy.

Onto the remaining parts then.

Definition
Corporal punishment: intentional actions that are intended to cause physical pain or discomfort for the purposes of correcting a child's behaviour, or for the purposes of deterring a child from repeating the unwanted behaviour in the future.

Historically, the prevailing view of mainstream society was that violence against children by their parents and teachers was simply a fact of life. This general societal acceptance reflected the widespread perception that children were the possessions of their parents, rather than individual human beings with fundamental human rights. It is well documented that because of references to the merits of the use of physical punishment as a method to punish sinners and to promote respect for God in the Old Testament, Christian religious leaders have historically promoted the use of physical means of disciplining children.

Straus, M. A. (2001). Beating the devil out of them: Corporal punishment in American families and its effects on children. Developmental Psychology 5(4), 33-56.

Use of corporal punishment is associated with impaired relationships and decreased communication between children and others. In a school context, then, children whose teachers employ physical punishment may refrain from approaching them for help with a problem, which could have a detrimental impact on their schoolwork. Additionally, and of high importance in regards to school context, physical punishment is consistently associated with increased levels of aggression in children and youth. Teachers who use corporal punishment to manage a child's behaviour are inadvertently causal to the behaviour they see to discourage.

Additionally corporal punishment is consistently associated with negative scores on reasoning and problem solving tasks, both which are of extreme importance to success in school. Lastly, any findings on the benefits of physical punishment in terms of its association with immediate compliance are poor. Studies consistently reveal that, in the long term, this type of discipline is ineffective at teaching socially suitable behaviour, is positively associated with adult aggression, and negatively associated with measures of self control and empathy.

Buck, J., Holden, G. W., & Stickels, A. (2001). The onset of physical punishment and other disciplinary techniques: A longitudinal and predictive analysis. Research in Child Development 8(2), 45-56.

Gershoff, E. (2002). Corporal Punishment by Parents and Associated Child Behaviors and Experiences: A Meta-Analytic and Theoretical Review. Psychological Review 128(4), 539–579.

Gradinge, E. (2003). Teaching Children the Right Lesson: Challenging the Use of Physical Punishment in Canadian Schools. Education Law Journal 15(1), 1-30.
Greydanus et al. (2003). Corporal Punishment in Schools. Journal of Adolescent Health 32(3), 385-393.

Teachers should therefore be highly encouraged to refrain from using physical punishment and to develop alternative, constructive approaches to child management. In essence, corporal punishment leads to nothing more than an unproductive, nullifying and retaliatory environment.
Debate Round No. 1
JoshuaWright

Pro

JoshuaWright forfeited this round.
Spiral

Con

My oponent has forfeited, my arguments still stand.

The City in the Sea
by Edgar Allan Poe

Lo! Death has reared himself a throne
In a strange city lying alone
Far down within the dim West,
Where the good and the bad and the worst and the best
Have gone to their eternal rest.
There shrines and palaces and towers
(Time-eaten towers that tremble not!)
Resemble nothing that is ours.
Around, by lifting winds forgot,
Resignedly beneath the sky
The melancholy waters he.

No rays from the holy heaven come down
On the long night-time of that town;
But light from out the lurid sea
Streams up the turrets silently-
Gleams up the pinnacles far and free-
Up domes- up spires- up kingly halls-
Up fanes- up Babylon-like walls-
Up shadowy long-forgotten bowers
Of sculptured ivy and stone flowers-
Up many and many a marvellous shrine
Whose wreathed friezes intertwine
The viol, the violet, and the vine.
Resignedly beneath the sky
The melancholy waters lie.
So blend the turrets and shadows there
That all seem pendulous in air,
While from a proud tower in the town
Death looks gigantically down.

There open fanes and gaping graves
Yawn level with the luminous waves;
But not the riches there that lie
In each idol's diamond eye-
Not the gaily-jewelled dead
Tempt the waters from their bed;
For no ripples curl, alas!
Along that wilderness of glass-
No swellings tell that winds may be
Upon some far-off happier sea-
No heavings hint that winds have been
On seas less hideously serene.

But lo, a stir is in the air!
The wave- there is a movement there!
As if the towers had thrust aside,
In slightly sinking, the dull tide-
As if their tops had feebly given
A void within the filmy Heaven.
The waves have now a redder glow-
The hours are breathing faint and low-
And when, amid no earthly moans,
Down, down that town shall settle hence,
Hell, rising from a thousand thrones,
Shall do it reverence.
Debate Round No. 2
JoshuaWright

Pro

JoshuaWright forfeited this round.
Spiral

Con

Another forfeit, my arguments all stand. :)

Emily Dickinson

Because I could not stop for Death,
He kindly stopped for me;
The carriage held but just ourselves
And Immortality.

We slowly drove, he knew no haste,
And I had put away
My labor, and my leisure too,
For his civility.

We passed the school where children played,
Their lessons scarcely done;
We passed the fields of gazing grain,
We passed the setting sun.

We paused before a house that seemed
A swelling of the ground;
The roof was scarcely visible,
The cornice but a mound.

Since then 't is centuries; but each
Feels shorter than the day
I first surmised the horses' heads
Were toward eternity.
Debate Round No. 3
20 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Spiral 9 years ago
Spiral
""cognitive processes" is not the same as cognitive action"

You think what you do is removed from what your brain does?

"If a chid is violant behaviors to begin with so corporal punishment is used more than the link is he violant because of of the use of corporal punishment not a beging behavior"

Children are not innately violent. Children have differing personalities, violence is not a personality domain however. Violence is a "LEARNED" behaviour i.e. modelling occurs when a child witnesses/subject to, certain behaviours.

"sientist get these results (the results in thier paychecks) they accept it with little back ground check."

Scientists are not paid to produce X results, most research (psychological) is done within a universities domain. What this means is that there are strong ethics processes related to any research. Secondly research is published (that's how people get to read it). What that means is that any published research is peer reviewed and open to criticism from any professional in the field. There are very good reasons why this is done, it is a basic premise of scientific ideals, that of fasification. Every step of a research process is included from theory base, selection of participants, method of research, statistical analyses done, all conclusions. What this creates is a process where by any experiment must be able to be replicated by what is published. Research is repeated, frequently, it is how you build a theory of knowledge about a subject. So when I say that these results are based on sound scientific premises, it means that all the resuslts were replicated, significant, and falsifiable. The results haven't been falsified, so what does that tell you?

This is the last post here I will do, you literacy level is hardly at a decent level from what you have expressed. Perhaps i expect to much from your education, who knows. Have fun in your ignorance.
Posted by cooljpk 9 years ago
cooljpk
"cognitive processes" is not the same as cognitive action. corporal punishment creates a mental block of bad undesired action.

If a chid is violant behaviors to begin with so corporal punishment is used more than the link is he violant because of of the use of corporal punishment not a beging behavior (Consequent Fallacy) and sientist get these results (the results in thier paychecks) they accept it with little back ground check.
Posted by Spiral 9 years ago
Spiral
No, but you have certain experimental designs where randomisation means individual differences do not matter, and statistical tests where individual differences are part of the equations. Saying that the conclusions are bad science is a cheap retort.

Again I am not saying you are unable to control what they do, just that for the whole people are generally unaware of cognitive processes. That is clearly not the same as "nthing that have happened to me".
Posted by cooljpk 9 years ago
cooljpk
"acording to you i do based on nthing that have happpened to me" sorry i was tiered
"according to you every thing i do is based on things that have previously happened to me"
Posted by cooljpk 9 years ago
cooljpk
I'm just stating that there could be other variables that these scientist over looked because you can never have a true Controlled specimen when dealing with humans. and that is where post hoc ergo propter hoc comes in.

"Straw man fallacy"
acording to you i do based on nthing that have happpened to me and not on my free choice. "your own motivations is not always clear" true but it doesn't mean i'm in no controll or even partial controll.
Posted by Spiral 9 years ago
Spiral
No my conclusions are based on scientifically valid, reliable, statistically significant, replicated results, that is why my arguments are not post hoc ergo propter hoc

Straw man fallacy

"so your just saying im a computer just doing what im programed to do and i have no "free choice" what so ever"

I never mentioned anything of the sort; I said your insight into your own motivations is not always clear.
Posted by cooljpk 9 years ago
cooljpk
I read "something scientific" like gore's "global warming theory" which hes making billions on even though he doesn't even believe in. "If you think you are aware of why you do the things you do then you are more ignorant than you appear from just this thread." so your just saying im a computer just doing what im programed to do and i have no "free choice" what so ever
Posted by cooljpk 9 years ago
cooljpk
"This is called a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.
Since that event followed this one, that event must have been caused by this one."
you just attack your self and your own evidense along with Fallacy of the Consequent & cum hoc ergo propter hoc

"What i said was in relation to your comment that, because a behaviour has occured since the beginning of man, it is natural."
what i meant to say was that "corporal punishment" is not Violance or abuse.
Posted by Spiral 9 years ago
Spiral
Going back to you reading...

Correlation does not imply causation. Try that.

Internal cognitive processes is not the same as biological knowledge. Again I can't stress enough how much reading something scientific would do you good. If you think you are aware of why you do the things you do then you are more ignorant than you appear from just this thread. Come back with an education. :)
Posted by cooljpk 9 years ago
cooljpk
oh ya...they get paid for certain results only. i think i know my own Psychological effct...and i base my opinion on physical action ... 40 years ago crime was at a low and respect was high(during corporal punishment times) and now crime is at all time high and respect all time low.

"Naturally you don't know the effect any corporal punishment has on you, people do not have good access to your own internal cognitive processes."
You kiding me... and you say other people do. the brain has been studied for thousands of years and experts still don't know 90% of the brain's functions. i really trust 110 years of knowlage.
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