The Instigator
MLI1997
Pro (for)
Losing
22 Points
The Contender
quarterexchange
Con (against)
Winning
23 Points

Should There Be Security Cameras In Schools

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/21/2011 Category: Education
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 20,342 times Debate No: 16617
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (12)

 

MLI1997

Pro

Security cameras are helping lots of people in the world by catching things on tape and recording illegal actions. But one of the most important places that needs security cameras are schools. However, some schools still don't have them. Why are there security cameras in every mall and movie theater but not in every school? Is it because some school districts are too cheap or just plain lazy? We need to get cameras in schools all around the world and stop spending money on things like dances or smart boards. With those things up, we can prevent things like the Virginia Tech attack or bullying.
quarterexchange

Con

I would like to accept this debate and since my opponent has made his opening arguments, I will as well.

My opponent makes the claim that we need security cameras installed in school to catch illegal acts and that since there are security camera's in malls and movie theater's they should also be in schools.

He goes on to claim they can prevent illegal activity, prevent bullying, and even school shootings.

My rebuttal's

1. Security camera's are expensive to buy, install and maintain.

The cost of a good security camera can cost up to hundred's of dollars and it also would cost another large sum to install and run them .[1]

In a time when schools across the country are having budget cuts, good security cameras costing up to 1000 dollars each would be a huge financial burden on the school which would more than likely result in the lay-offs of employee's, academic classes being dropped, extracurricular activities such as band and athletics being eliminated, etc. Simply to buy security camera's.

2. Security camera's would be useless.

My opponent also claims that security camera's could stop school shootings as well.

In order for camera's to prevent a school shooting, the school's we all need to hire armed security guards to constantly monitor the camera's and act in such an event.

School shootings are also highly unlikely as only a handful occur in the U.S. every year which normally result in either no casualties or mere injuries and many time are perpetrated by adults who simply walk onto campus, a situation where cameras will have no effect.[2]

A better way to prevent school shootings would be to allow teachers to have permits to carry their weapons at home on campus. This would not cost any money at all as the teachers would simply bring weapons from home. This would turn a significant amount of teachers into persons with the ability to put down an armed intruder or student faster than a single guard watching the screens of dozens of live security camera's. Many schools in the U.S. are already following this method as well as countries such as Israel and Thailand [3]

Most if not all illegal activity on school campuses, do not occur out in the open such as in the quad, in the gym, etc. They occur in the bathrooms, the locker rooms, etc. The sale or use of illegal drugs, weapons, etc occur in those private areas. In order to make security cameras somewhat worthwhile, we would need to install security cameras in those areas. The girl's locker room, the boy's bathroom stalls, etc would need cameras. It would be extremely inappropriate and a major violation of personal privacy if the students were forced to appear naked, half dressed, and using the restrooms to school personnel.

Young females and males should not be forced to appear nude, half dressed, etc to school officials. It is a violation of personal privacy and is extremely demeaning and stressful to students, who will now know that their math or science teacher has seen how large their breasts are, or who will now know how small their penis is, or how fat they are, or how skinny they are, etc.

For these reasons security cameras are extremely costly, and in order to avoid the violation of the personal and intimate privacy of students, cannot be placed in the areas where illegal activity can occur the most.

Vote Con

[1] http://www.supercircuits.com...
(Costs of various security cameras. Prices range from over $250 to $1000+ each.)

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org...
(List of school shootings)

[3] http://en.wikipedia.org...
(Schools with "armed classrooms" have already been implemented in the U.S., Israel, and Thailand.)
Debate Round No. 1
MLI1997

Pro

You make some very good points, but I beg to differ. Since you mentioned cost, I must say that there are many unimportant tech items in our schools right now. For example, those smart boards that I was talking about before cost between $3000-5000. Smart boards are being put up in the Spanish and band classrooms which is useless because this whole entire year, my teachers have used the expensive boards only to draw on because they are confused by all the devices. If we didn't put so many smart boards around the school, then I'm sure there'll be enough money to support the cameras.

But bullying is a major issue in our schools right now. Just look what happened to Phoebe Prince. How would you feel if your kid came home with a black eye and the teachers don't know who caused it. I personally would be pretty pissed. But anyway, with just security cameras at the main entrances it can save many people from dangerous situations. As a matter of fact, we just did a code black drill test and since there were security cameras at our school, we kept an eye on the outside world. It's important because if there ever was a real code black, the criminal could force one of the principals to call it off and that'd lure everyone out of hiding.

Last but not least would be the privacy issue. Nobody at our school ever complains about the invasion of privacy because they already get their privacy invaded everyday. That would be the cause of something called gym class. Most of the people change and for the one's that don't, well all they get is a little check point by their name which is strike one out of three. Besides, we're always being watched every time we go out or to a public place. It's not like the person watching the cameras will be running around the school telling everybody they saw someone pick their boogers. Most of the time it'll a teacher watching and they wouldn't do bad things on purpose. However if they caught someone drawing on the walls then they might report that person.
quarterexchange

Con


Cost

"Smart boards are being put up in the Spanish and band classrooms which is useless because this whole entire year, my teachers have used the expensive boards only to draw on because they are confused by all the devices"

This is your mere assertion. You have no evidence smart boards are expensive, no evidence smart boards are put in unnecessary clases, no evidence that teachers don't know how to use them, no evidence they aren't worth the cost, etc.

If bullying is a major issue in school the child can report it for free. The U.S. tax payers should not have to shell out millions of dollars because kids are to scared to tattle on a bully. That's ridiculous.
If kids really want bullying to stop they can report it themselves. They don't need a $1000 dollar camera to do it for them.

I'm also assuming the cameras will be on for 6 hours and that you are requiring teachers to view all of that.
That either require you to pull teachers from their jobs to pay them watch hours of useless footage and they might miss something like the sale of a drug.

Or you will have to pay a security guard more money to view the footage.

Cameras are too expensive.

Security

I have already explained that school shootings are unlikely and that a cheaper and more effective way would be to allow teachers to carry their firearms on campus.

You are asking schools to spend several thousands dollars plus the cost of a security guard to prevent an event that will more than likely never occur.

If 2 or 3 teachers at a school kept guns at a home allowing them to bring them to school would be free and would be more effective at stopping a shooter than mere cameras.


Privacy

Regarding privacy, in gym class, people don't mind dressing with members of the same sex. There also aren't teachers watching. Even moreso people don't use the same bathroom stalls, which is a popular place where the sale and use of drugs occur. In order to prevent a good deal of illegal activity, cameras need to be installed in bathroom stalls.

Now I for one don't mind being seen naked if it's for a good security reason such as when I go through security at an airport.
But many do mind and therefore they don't go to airports.

You are forcing everyone who doesn't make the choice to go to school to be forced to reveal themselves naked, in the bathroom, etc to school officials.

Yes we know teachers won't go around telling others what they saw, but we don't want them to see us period.


Conclusion

In conclusion my opponent has offered no evidence that smart boards are useless, expensive or implemented in many classrooms unnecessarily

My opponent has no proven that forcing schools to spend thousands of dollars on security cameras is more effective than simply allowing teachers to carry their firearms at home on campus

My opponent has not shown how it makes sense to force schools to spend thousands on security cameras to catch bullying when kids aren't willing to do it themselves

My opponent has not shown how it is ethical to subject students to the embarrasment and stress, who are forced to go to school to have themselves, without choice, be displayed naked, using the bathroom, etc to the very teachers that teach them.

Vote Con

Debate Round No. 2
MLI1997

Pro

Do you think all security cameras cost $1000? Only the most expensive and the ones used by people like the navy or army. The perfectly good security camera I found was way less than $1000. You don't just put the most expensive camera price down to make all cameras look expensive. A smart board also has a projector that you can purchase for less than $1000. Now their coming up with 3D ones. Oh yeah, every school need giant 3D boards to watch movies. Besides, do you really think teachers should bring guns to school? What if one day a teacher got fired and he or she went on a rampage? That makes no difference than having or not having security cameras there. But what happens if some crazy kid stole their teacher's gun? Also a camera RECORDS stuff. They don't just capture something important and forget about it. You think half the teachers know how to shoot a gun? Or do you suppose we train them like the seals?Why not just a janitor to view it or something? A security guard has one set of eyes. Multiple cameras means multiple views. Do you really think one security guard can watch over 300 kids. If we hired more, then we might spend more money on the guards than the cameras. We don't need a security guard or officer to babysit kids. The people at the front office could watch the cameras because they're not doing anything half the time! There are only a handful of kids that have the strength to stand up for themselves. Do you think the football jock gets slammed into lockers everyday? The kids that are picked on the most are the shy ones. Who said they have to be put in bathrooms? If people are so uncomfortable about their bodies that they won't even go to the airport, then it's time for some counseling. Plus, of course smart boards are expensive. Have you ever seen one? However, if you don't believe me, then Google a smart board that's good, and under $3000 with a projector.

In conclusion, my opponent thinks guns can solve all our problems. He thinks kids that don't stand up for themselves are wimps. He also thinks that people are going to put cameras in private places and frame the teachers as creepers.

For cameras, visit
http://www.supercircuits.com...;

For smart boards, visit
http://smartboards.com...;

For guns, visit
http://www.gunbroker.com...

Vote pro and protect your kids!!!
quarterexchange

Con

Cost

"Do you think all security cameras cost $1000?"

No, I very clearly stated in the first round that they cost from 250 to 1000 dollars depending on quality.


"Oh yeah, every school need giant 3D boards to watch movies."

You've offered no evidence whatsoever that they are attempting to have 3D boards in every school to watch movies. Your entire case built against smart boards rests on your own personal assertions and nothing more.

You have failed to find sources showing that schools are using them for ridiculous reasons such as for spanish classes or watching movies.

You have failed to find sources showing that they aren't effective learning devices.

Therefore your case against smartboards has crumbled.

You have also made little attempt to mask the fact that you are asking schools to spend thousands of dollars to buy expensive and unnecessary security cameras.


Security (Armed situations)

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but over 1 million americans have a job in the U.S. armed forces. These employees have assault rifles, fighter jets, tanks, etc all at their place of work. How many of them have gone on homicidal rampages? You can probably only name the Fort Hood Shooting.

The fact of the matter is that millions of Americans own guns, are responsible gun owners, and don't start going Rambo on children when they get mad. For this fact you have no reason to stand on the argument that you fear a teacher is going to go on a rampage.

I want gun owning teachers to bring their firearms to school for defending the children if need be.

Just as I want military personel to use their firearms for defense if need be.

To make the argument that we should disarm responsible gun owning teachers who have the purpose of defending their students is as ridiculous as making the argument we should disarm the military who have the purpose of defending U.S. soild as well as U.S. interests abroad.

Should we also disarm police officers as well?

Think about, police officers carrying guns walk around in public with a pistol in their holster easy for anyone to grab.

Just as teachers walk around campus carrying guns in public.

Your argument is just as ludicrous. For your reasons against arming teachers, a notion that has become a reality in many U.S. and Israeli schools already, we should disarm the U.S. military as well as Law enforcement.

I very clearly stated that teachers who have guns at home should be allowed to bring them. People don't go out buying revolvers to keep where they live if they don't know how to use them.


"In conclusion, my opponent thinks guns can solve all our problems."

Oh I'm sorry, I must have missed were you explained how security cameras, PHYSICALLY STOPPED GUN WIELDING MANIACS!!!

This is a scenario you brought up.

You specifically said that we need security cameras to prevent school shootings like Virginia Tech.

You make the claim that we need cameras to prevent school shootings, and yet you give no explanation how they will actually stop a school shooting.


You know how school shootings end? They end when either the police or the the shooter themself, blows out the brains of the shooter. Either way, guns end school school shootings, not cameras.

Security (misc)

I was against the idea of spending money hiring security personel, but janitors have the job of keeping school grounds sanitary and administrative personel have the job of running schools.

You have yet to prove that they have time to watch security cameras all day while they are already doing the jobs they are paid to do.

Your claim that "The people at the front office could watch the cameras because they're not doing anything half the time!", is without basis and again, merely assertion.

Bullying

I'm not asking for children to fight with others that are twice as large. I'm asking them to report misconduct and misbehavior from fellow classmates to administrative personel.

It would save schools thousands of dollars and possibly the jobs of other school employees. That is not an unreasonable request.

I never said they were wimps, you are putting words in my mouth, I said that it did not make sense that taxpayers should be forced to spend thousands of dollars on cameras when kids being bullied aren't willing to report the bullying.


Privacy

"Who said they have to be put in bathrooms"

Anyone with common sence knows that when people conduct illegal activity, they conduct it in privacy.

Students don't sell drugs in the principles office, not out on the quad during passing period, etc.

Students use and sell drugs in bathrooms were it is private. In order to catch a decent amount of illegal activity, cameras need to be placed in bathrooms, which is a violation of personal privacy.

Therefore cameras cannot catch illegal activity.

Conclusion


My opponents claims regarding the futility of Smartboards are mere assertions.

My opponents claims regarding the laziness of school employees are mere assertions

My opponent says that cameras won't be placed in school bathrooms, the areas were nearly all illegal activity on school occurs.

My opponent thinks it is reasonable to have the taxpayer shell out millions nation wide for security cameras to stop bullying, when children should be reporting it themselves to the school.

My opponent has not given any explaination as to how security cameras will stop school shootings while she opposes the presence of firearms on campus. Which, by the way, is becoming a method of preventing school shootings in my already stateded sources.



All in all my opponent has not shown that security cameras can catch illegal activity when she doesn't want them planted in the areas where illegal activy occurs, that security camears do a damn thing to prevent school shootings other than simply record the massacre, that security cameras are not a violation of personal privacy and that security camera's are worth the cost when they don't prevent illegal activity and when you need to hire additional personel to monitor them.


Vote Con
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by Awed 3 years ago
Awed
So I went with the pro side on both arguments and sources. Con links to websites showing $250-$1000 security cameras, but pro links to the same site where there were cameras for as cheap as $40. For that reason, I gave pro the sources point. I dropped unsourced arguments/responses. Con, a tip for next time, don't just say he doesn't have evidence. Find evidence of your own and turn his argument. Build as much offense as you can, not defense. As for privacy, don't use generalizations/anecdotes; use actual evidence. Cost/Bullying was the main issue, and I think that con focused too much on the shooting aspect rather than the bullying aspect. Pragmatically, simply reporting bulling each time that it occurs or allowing teachers to carry guns around might be "free" but in no way does it help stop bullying to an extent that cameras would. Identifying the attacker, etc are all aided by cameras. .
Posted by MLI1997 3 years ago
MLI1997
so why do you win so much?
Posted by quarterexchange 3 years ago
quarterexchange
When I debate it may or may not be the side I support. For all you know I agree with you.
Posted by MLI1997 3 years ago
MLI1997
but i still like him
Posted by MLI1997 3 years ago
MLI1997
that gun guy is just mean
Posted by lucyalice1989 3 years ago
lucyalice1989
Yes!! if statistics of crime have been rising, or bullying is causing upset amongst young people... there is lots of reasons to support why it would be a great idea.
Posted by kohai 3 years ago
kohai
I'd accept, but I agree!
12 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by nerdykiller 3 years ago
nerdykiller
MLI1997quarterexchangeTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Both side brought good points, but the last round con really nailed it....
Vote Placed by Awed 3 years ago
Awed
MLI1997quarterexchangeTied
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Reasons for voting decision: See comments for RFD.
Vote Placed by askbob 3 years ago
askbob
MLI1997quarterexchangeTied
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Reasons for voting decision: jars banned and removed, oreele has taken care of halo
Vote Placed by kohai 3 years ago
kohai
MLI1997quarterexchangeTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Vote removed
Vote Placed by JacobHession 3 years ago
JacobHession
MLI1997quarterexchangeTied
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Reasons for voting decision: I agree with the pro side of this debate however the Con side did a substantially better job of debating the topic.
Vote Placed by detachment345 3 years ago
detachment345
MLI1997quarterexchangeTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: many of pro's claims were opinion, pure opinion
Vote Placed by liljohnny818 3 years ago
liljohnny818
MLI1997quarterexchangeTied
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Reasons for voting decision: I have to vote Pro. I thought his Econ arguments outweighed Con's. If we eliminated needless spending elsewhere, we could afford it. I agree with Con that it wouldn't prevent shootings, but I was convinced it would help bring down bullying. This was enough to steal my ballot. Pro's sources were more convincing but conduct and spelling were tied. Great debate.
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 3 years ago
RoyLatham
MLI1997quarterexchangeTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Good debate, and a close one. Cost was the main issue, and I think that Pro argued well enough that it is not a stopper in the light of more expensive items. Cameras wouldn't stop shootings; shooters don't care if they are caught. Bullying, including fighting, is the main thing where reviewing tapes would identify who started the trouble.
Vote Placed by Phoenix_Reaper 3 years ago
Phoenix_Reaper
MLI1997quarterexchangeTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Countering the troll HaloReach. OreEle beat me to it by 5 seconds lol
Vote Placed by Ore_Ele 3 years ago
Ore_Ele
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Countering HaloReach's votebomb