The Instigator
spinster
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
joeymiller1234
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Should Women be Positively Discriminated Against to Gain Equality?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/14/2016 Category: Society
Updated: 8 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 425 times Debate No: 95406
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (0)

 

spinster

Pro

Positive discrimination (for those who aren't familiar with the term) is when you actively single out a person or group and give them 'special treatment' or look on the favorably. This could be hiring a woman instead of a man because you want to seem more 'diverse'. This could seem unfair and I suppose in a certain way it is however the only way to allow people to view men and women as equals, women who have been oppressed and turned away simply because of their gender, is to bring them into an environment which may usually be male-dominated. Doing this we can give women the oppourtunity to prove that they are, in fact, just as good as men.

I look forward to hearing your opinion and having an intelligent discussion on a topic I am passionate about.
joeymiller1234

Con

Yes, but at the same time females want EQUAL RIGHTS meaning not singling them out as females but as people.
Debate Round No. 1
spinster

Pro

Yes while that is true I feel the only way to reach true equality is to give women a leg-up. After centuries of being put down I say women deserve it! How will women achieve their true potential if never giving them the opportunity. Life has always been in favor of men and almost all areas of work are in fact male dominated. I say we tip the scales and allow give women a chance. Perhaps it will make a job more appealing to them and could inspire future generations to question gender stereotypes and get involved in areas they were afraid to before. If we have 'equality' how come men are twice as active in business as women? Once positive discrimination is in place women will be employed in more work areas and then equality will shine through. Our current methods of getting equality aren't working so what else is there to do? How do you propose we gain equal rights?
joeymiller1234

Con

I agree with Zaephou, it isn't right for women to dominate nursing and then have them dominate a man dominated job, like engineering.
Debate Round No. 2
spinster

Pro

I am most certainly not saying that women should dominate every single career but I think that women are overshadowed in most areas of work. Are you saying women should only be allowed to dominate nursing. After that it is all men. How can you say it is simply due to the person when it clearly isn't. Men dominate in engineering, business, science, teaching. How is that not to do with gender. How many women say "I want to be an engineer"? Very few. It could be for fear of being judged for it, it could be because they feel they aren't so good. I am not saying a company should only hire women and ban men from their business. But we need to encourage women to grasp their full potential and right now they are not. Women can be just as good at every aspect of the working world and equality is yet to be achieved. I am not saying women are better than men but I am saying that they are equal. Encouraging women to take part in career paths they wouldn't have before is a really key factor to gaining equality. If a male candidate is exceedingly more qualified for a job and it is in the best interest of the company to hire him. But if a woman could be as good as a man then HIRE HER.

I know this is not such a popular view but I think that it is a last resort option. What do we have left to do? Please keep commenting as I feel there is more to discuss on this topic.
joeymiller1234

Con

I am not saying women should only dominate nursing, I am saying that they shouldn't dominate a male dominated job.
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Snazzy 8 months ago
Snazzy
I would be interested in redoing this debate if Pro is up for it considering Con's attempt at debate was nothing short of laughable.
Posted by Snazzy 8 months ago
Snazzy
Exactly. You are saying that it can be unfair to men. By giving special treatment to women, you are saying that they are inferior to men.

Men and women have different things happen to them when they're alone at night. Men are robbed and women are raped. By saying that a 21 y/o male is safer than a 21 y/o female, you are suggesting that women are weak and cannot protect themselves. Is this not what feminism is against?

Women are called out more for looking 'hot', yes. If you say this is because society tells them to, you are completely wrong. "It"s essential to note that the literature specifically studying men"s arousal patterns (gay as well as straight) has repeatedly emphasized their sensitivity to visual cues." (https://www.psychologytoday.com...)

As you can see, the brains of gay men also objectify men, debunking the rumor that society "programs men to objectify women" because men objectify whichever gender they are attracted to no matter what society tells them. Therefore, you cannot simply tell men to stop objectifying women because it's impossible to do that.

This is where the hypocrisy of feminism shows. You say that society tells women to take jobs such as nursing, but then people like you tell women to enter jobs such as mechanics and construction. Here's why men take more blue collar jobs than women: male brains are connected more WITHIN hemispheres and women's brains are connected more BETWEEN hemispheres. This suggests that "male brains may be optimized for motor skills, and female brains may be optimized for combining analytical and intuitive thinking" (http://www.scientificamerican.com...)
Posted by spinster 8 months ago
spinster
No of course I am not did I say this? When I said unfair I meant it could be seen as unfair to men. Women are by no means puny OR fragile but society is still unequal, even with strong women who are fighting their corner. So would you say a 21 year old woman and a 21 year old man are both as safe as each other? How often are men called out for looking 'hot'? Say it how you like society is. Not. Equal. Of course some establishments are but the majority isn't. Let me give you some examples of male dominated jobs: business, politics, mechanics, public administration, mining, construction and electricians, to name a few. Gender stereotypes are holding women back. 'Male-dominated industries and occupations employ fewer women and are particularly vulnerable to masculine stereotypes that make it even more difficult for women to excel.' Should women be receptionists, assistants and nurses simply because that's what society tells them thats what they should be?
http://www.catalyst.org...
This wevsire shows the in equality is male and female dominated jobs.
Posted by Snazzy 8 months ago
Snazzy
"This could seem unfair and I suppose in a certain way it is"
So you are suggesting that women are so puny and fragile that they need special treatment to compete in the workforce? Women aren't being "oppressed" by men, they're being "oppressed" by females like you.
Posted by Snazzy 8 months ago
Snazzy
"men are viewed as better than women in society today"
Sources?
"a woman can't walk safely by herself at night"
Men can't do that either.
"only leading in education"
I'll give you some examples of female-dominated jobs: nursing, veterinary work, psychology, human resources, accounting, and other jobs that specialize in finance. I'll also give you a source: http://www.businessinsider.com...
Posted by spinster 8 months ago
spinster
So are you saying that it is a male dominated job and women shouldn't be allowed tonne enpliyed in it simply because they are a woman? That they should leave it alone? Simply because of gender stereotypes?
Posted by Zaephou 8 months ago
Zaephou
One thing, citations please.

Secondly, the fact that women are behind than men in certain careers does not have anything to do with the gender. You see a man dominating a certain career choice over her fellow woman, while all it is is one person who happens to be a man dominating a certain career over another person. This has nothing to do with gender, so instead of making this an issue, consider that a person should improve one's self instead of depending on others to do it for you.

Also, your mentality about the whole thing is very hypocritical. It is not ok for a man to be ahead of a woman in a certain career path, such as engineering, but it is ok for a woman to be ahead of a man in a certain career path, like nursing?

The reason this society we live are run by mostly men working in government, is because it is mostly men who look to pursue politics in the first place! Again, this is not a gender issue this is just statistical fact, so please, instead of blaming men, blame the individual for not pursuing a better career path if they are regretting their choices.
Posted by spinster 8 months ago
spinster
Whilst I appreciate what you are saying, and many women would agree that positive discrimination is derogatory to women but we live in a society that is run predominantly by males. That is a fact and women are leading in some areas of work but what is it to say that they are only leading in education? That they should stop there and settle? Let men run everything else? As I said earlier if we could get one woman into a job that perhaps wouldn't have before and succeed. To leave a trail for others to follow. I am not saying that in 2074 this will still be necessary but now I feel it is.

When I fist heard the term I too was against it. What about the men? Aren't they suffering from inequality. What I didn't know then was that men are viewed as better than women in society today. When I mentioned in round two the women being 'oppressed and turned away' I was talking about the thousands of years women couldn't vote, have an opinion. After that when women were afraid to come forward about rape because they wouldn't. Be. Believed. And now when a woman can't walk safely by herself at night. Oppression. Turning away.

If anyone has any more questions or arguments please do comment as I'm not sure if I missed any of your points.
Posted by Snazzy 8 months ago
Snazzy
Also, where are your sources for your claim that women are "oppressed and turned away simply because of their gender"? I haven't seen any evidence of this except for these special snowflakes claiming that they're oppressed because no one wants to look at their fat, blue haired self.
Posted by Snazzy 8 months ago
Snazzy
You appear to have made a contradictory statement: "the only way to reach true equality is to give women a leg-up"
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