The Instigator
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The Contender
Con (against)

Should Women be Positively Discriminated Against to Gain Equality?

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spinster has forfeited round #3.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/18/2016 Category: Society
Updated: 1 month ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 224 times Debate No: 95471
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (13)
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I am restarting this debate as it has caused lots of disputes and @Snazzy would like to take part. For more information go over to the previous debate and look at the comments.
Round 1 - accept
Round 2, 3, 4 - debate, make arguments
Round 5 - conclude

I look forward to hearing your opinions!
Debate Round No. 1


The blunt truth is that we live in an unequal society. Women are significantly underrepresented in many areas of work, such as business, engineering and public services. It is my personal belief that if more women could be employed in these jobs, they can inspire women to follow in their path, making women in stereotypical 'men's' jobs the norm. We can encourage men to be nannies or nurses, jobs they feel aren't 'manly' enough. I am not saying women are weak and in desperate need of help but despite all of the fiery, powerful women out there gender equality is till a long way away. I think positive discrimination is the key to opening doors to careers that would have been unthinkable before. Yes men tend to be more practical but that doesn't mean that men don't want to help with children, for example. Women want to be pilots, fire fighters, builders. But they are quickly discouraged from that idea and choose a more 'traditional career path. We need to inspire these women, get them to fight and stand up for the things they love; encourage their dreams not stamp them out. If we show them that they could get their ideal job, get them to apply and get others to follow. The US has never had a female president, the UK only one female PM. Only 29% of MPs in 2015 were women. How can we make laws that are made for only half the population? How can women have a voice when they are so dominated by men? How can society be equal?


Instituallized discriminination seems to support your argument for positively matching the numbers. But I say these problems are much deeper than the workplace. I say it's the way a person thinks and comprehends the status of women. It is the view that women are discriminated. I do not hold this which is mere View.

First let's get away from institutions because it is straightforward that SKILL judges success there. Let's think of what does something for people in an entire way. Let's think about happiness and safety, and how discriminating challenges this.

I mean if a woman cannot get the same pay grade as a man in soccer, she can get a job as a female model which only a woman could do. Pointless topic. You know the fans like the boys.

Was it for being a woman that a lady in the villages of Pakistan got beaten? It might actually be true. These kind of communities attach "roles" to the gender. It's the way these people think.

I'm aware of bad treatment for being a woman but I don't feel that way myself. What if the world had the MENTALITY that a woman shouldn't deserve to suffer for her femininity. It wouldn't be the reason if incidents happened. It would be other reasons that made a woman mistreated.
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Zaephou 1 month ago
Here is my rebuttal:

One thing, citations please.

Secondly, the fact that women are behind than men in certain careers does not have anything to do with the gender. You see a man dominating a certain career choice over her fellow woman, while all it is is one person who happens to be a man dominating a certain career over another person. This has nothing to do with gender, so instead of making this an issue, consider that a person should improve one's self instead of depending on others to do it for you.

Also, your mentality about the whole thing is very hypocritical. It is not ok for a man to be ahead of a woman in a certain career path, such as engineering, but it is ok for a woman to be ahead of a man in a certain career path, like nursing?

The reason this society we live are run by mostly men working in government, is because it is mostly men who look to pursue politics in the first place! Again, this is not a gender issue this is just statistical fact, so please, instead of blaming men, blame the individual for not pursuing a better career path if they are regretting their choices.
Posted by Zaephou 1 month ago
Note to Con, her arguments have been fully rebutted in the comments of her previous argument. Read them here:
Posted by Heirio 1 month ago
I'm not disappointed at all, I'm more surprised than anything.
I've never been able to actually convince someone on the internet of anything and the general consensus is that it's unlikely to happen.

"I don't really know what to say as I am not very good at being wrong."

Few are. I'm a terrible loser.
Posted by Snazzy 1 month ago
Yeah, don't try to force an equal outcome. That's communism.
Posted by spinster 1 month ago
The multiple comments thing is okay really, and well... would it be totally disappointing and I don't know.. hypocritical if I said I was wrong? That you'd changed my mind? I feel like that's sort of disappointing but I completely agree with what you just said. No one has worded it quite like that I suppose and whenever I try to promote feminism to others my argument is the exact one you just used, so what if I don't have a penis? Why does that make me any less of a person? No.
I don't really know what to say as I am not very good at being wrong. Thank you everyone for your points and arguments, Heirio and Bruntru especially. You've turned me. Sorry if I let you down by forfeiting.
Posted by Heirio 1 month ago
I'll repeat.
Create a world with equal opportunity but don't try to force an outcome.


I tend to come up with new thoughts on the spot and that's the reason for the numerous comments. I'll try to avoid that in the future.
Posted by Heirio 1 month ago
Years ago, women could not a job because they had a vagina and their competition had a dick. Today, western society views that kind of thing as disgusting.

Men not being able to get jobs because they don't have vaginas is equally bad.
Posted by Heirio 1 month ago
"Heirio I would like to know what your exact argument is as you seem quite good at your debates. This was a topic discussed for a few minutes in our philosophy and ethics lesson and I wanted to explore it further."

Equal opportunity =/= Equal outcome.

The whole idea of equality is basically a level playing field for both genders. Hence, positively discriminating against women (which in effect is essentially negative discrimination against men) will not promote equality at all. It skews the playing field, making things less about equality between the sexes but rather about one sex being higher up.

Let's have a situation. Two people are being interviewed for a job in the STEM field. It's a man and a woman.
The man has say.... 3 A*'s under his belt for his A levels and they all contribute wonderfully to the job he is applying for.
The woman also has very good A levels which also contribute well to the job she's applying for. However, the woman has 2 A*'s and 1 A.
The man is better qualified for the job, obviously. Therefore, he should be the one getting the job. But by positive discrimination against women, the woman gets the job, despite being less qualified.

Why did the woman get the job but the man didn't? The answer is simple. She had a vagina.

This is blatant sexism and is therefore not for equality and would make the world a very unequal place. What I've heard the most from the feminist movement is that they don't want people to judge them based on their genitals.

However, you propose just that. Yes, it's benefiting them, but they're not getting in on any sort of merit. They're getting in on something they were born with.

Why should I be refused a job purely because I have a dick? Why? It is complete and utter sexism.

Create a world where there is equal opportunity? Fine with me. Go ahead. That'll be great for the world.
Discriminate against innocent people in order to force equal outcome? You have to be joking.
Posted by Bruntru 1 month ago
I do agree that in some places women are not treated equally to men, and that should definitely change. However there has been a few cases were men were rejected from being employed within a company in order to equalise the men-women employment ratio. Companies should not focus on who to employ regarding if they are a man or a woman, but who will do the job the best. This means, that if a woman is the best for a job, then employ her. If a man is the best for a job, then employ him. If it happens that there are more men employed in that specific job than women, and they were chosen fairly, let it happen. Same the other way round. If one gender is preferred against another gender, without looking at each person's skill, that should definitely be changed. I agree that sometimes, men are preferred to women in the government, which is absolutely wrong. But instead of trying to bring in more women, make sure that the government decides fairly to each gender.
Posted by spinster 1 month ago
The percentage of women in parliament went down in the conservative and liberal party. Only 29% of MPs are women. Yes I acknowledged that it had gone up but don't you think it is fair to say that 29% is quite low? Would you say that is equality? @Heirio I would like to know what your exact argument is as you seem quite good at your debates. This was a topic discussed for a few minutes in our philosophy and ethics lesson and I wanted to explore it further.
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