The Instigator
GIDHIR
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points
The Contender
djcheetah1
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Should You Believe in a God?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
GIDHIR
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/10/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 354 times Debate No: 76401
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)

 

GIDHIR

Con

First I must get three things out of the way:
1) I am not trying to force anyone to believe anything, and neither should my opponent. We are simply trying to convince the other with our points.
2) I am most familiar with Judeo-Christian religion, but I am not limiting the discussion to merely that type of religion. I believe I can debate someone from any religion.
3) Most importantly, let this not be a personal attack on anyone. It's just a debate and anyone can leave whenever they want to.

Ok, my position is that of a nonbeliever in a higher power. My challenge is to anyone who believes in a god, deity, or divine creator. I cannot definitively prove or disprove the existence of such a being but I but I am reasonably certain that one does not exist. Preferably, I would like to debate someone with strong convictions in their religion, a fundamentalist, something like that. But once again, the debate is open to any religious individual. I would ask that My opponent accept this debate from 7:00AM to 10:00PM Eastern Standard Time so that each side can have time to read what the other says and respond to it.

The arrangement of the rounds will go as follows:
Round 1) Accepting the the debate, stating your position and religious affiliation, any opening remarks about what you believe, your certainty in said belief, etc.
Round 2) Interpretation of Religious Text: Literal, Figurative, or other. Rebuttals.
Round 3) Is Religion a Benefit or Detriment: Regardless of what the belief is, does religion bring good or bad to the world.
Round 4) Is God Good: Hypothetically assuming there is some god, should you believe in she/he/it and why?
Round 5) Closimg statements and remarks about the debate.

Lastly, I intend this as a friendly debate. Let's just have some fun and let the debating begin!
djcheetah1

Pro

yes god does exist I mean that is why good and bad is in the world and explain the bible.
Debate Round No. 1
GIDHIR

Con

From your context you believe in the Judeo Christian Bible so I will now discuss said Bible. For convenience sake, I will refer to this god on occasion as he or him, knowing some will argue god has no gender. To me, any religious text is either entirely written by God or entirely synthetic. Now if I ever say the Bible is false, I mean it was written by humans and not by God, and I don't mean that it doesn't contain truths within it. "Love your neighbor as yourself" is the perfect example of a good moral in the Bible.
Anyways, the matter at hand is whether the Bible is actually authaured by Yahweh. If God merely inspired the book, there is no reason for him to do so. Why not have a book that in no way could be misconstrued? Why allow human hands to taint your omniscient teachings? One might argue that god didn't want to tell us everything, that he wanted us to make our own decisions. In that case, why did he inspire some text to begin with and not other texts? So logically, the Bible is either the word of God, or the word of scribes. If it isn't from god, then there is no reason to call it a Holy Book. Plain and simple.
Now, if the Bible were written by God, then no part of it is incorrect and it is all to be seen as entirely true, because why would God purposely confuse everyone by spontaneously being metaphorical while saying it isn't? So god wants everyone to believe that the world is a round disc atop pillars, the light from the sun is different from the light on the moon, that the stars are able to fall down to earth, and he has very specific rules regarding morality that you must follow.
First of all, by every scientific means the earth is most definitely an oblate spheroid, an almost perfect sphere. Ask any credible astronomer or scientific resource and they will tell you that the earth is not flat and that the educated world hasn't believed it to be flat since Pythagoras in the 6th century BC. Secondly, the matter of the sun and the moon. It states in Genesis that God created two great lights, one to rule the day (the sun) and one to rule the night (the moon). The only problem is that the sun produces both lights. The moon is a reflector, it doesn't make its own light. Third, there are explicit statements that at the end of time the stars will fall from the sky to the Earth. The sky is not a physical object where the stars can hang from. Stars are giant interstellar nuclear reactions. They would consume Earth long befor they would fall onto it and there are billions upon billions of these massive bodies. Lastly let us analyse the Bible's morality.
Everyone knows that the Bible states that homosexuality is wrong, whether in Leviticus or the writings of Paul. Did you also know you can't wear clothing with multiple linens, you can't grow more than one crop side by side, children who disrespect their parents must be stoned, working on the Sabbath is punishable by death, nonbeliever so must perish, you can sell your daughter as a slave, you can enslave people you conquer, you are supposed to conquer non believers, you cannot eat shellfish or the meat of animals with odd numbered hooves, a woman must wear her hair long and can't pray without a veil and a man must keep his hair short and not wear anything on his head while praying. Why is any of this necessary and how is Capitol punishment moral?
djcheetah1

Pro

djcheetah1 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
GIDHIR

Con

Moving on to the next round, the agreed upon topic is whether religion does more harm than good. Now, when talking to a religious person, most of them will say at some point that Christian charities donate billions of dollars a year to the needy, more than any other group. This is true, and this is definitely a benefit to the world. Where I see a problem is in the assumption that the only reason people do good things is because of religion. If the only reason someone does something good is because they're afraid of some kind of supernatural punishment, then that person isn't really moral. Yet people who are not raised with religion or those who don't believe your particular religion, they can still be moral. If they were incapable of doing so, no one on earth would cooperate and every civilization that didn't follow your religions dogma wouldn't exist. Now think of all the injustice that has been done in the name of religion. War, genocide, rape, genital mutilation, throughout human history. For the sake of arguement, let's say that the good charity works being done by religions now counteracts all of those atrocities, though personally I don't think this to be true. Now what is religions purpose? If you can be tought to be moral without the fear of divine punishment or reward, why do so to begin with? Sure, religion urges people to do good things that they might not have ordinarily done, but it also urges people to commit horrendous deeds, the likes of which only mentally unstable individuals would perpetrate. And still religious organizations demand a certain amount of respect from non believers, such as tax exemption, not drawing pictures of Muhammad, holidays, and freedom from the law (look up Boston bishop pedophilia). When one really looks at what there religion commands and compels them to, it's unnerving and deplorable. The only justification they have is that if you don't do what they say is right you will be punished exponentially once you die. The notions of heaven and hell are disgusting. Why is it that finite crimes committed on earth call for infinite punishment? Why not be punished for what you did do and then forgiven when you've learned the error of your ways? And in heaven you cannot sin and thusly you have no free will. What kind of reward is that, to live your life by someone else's rules under your own volition only to have your individuality ripped from you along with your choice and your critical thinking.
djcheetah1

Pro

djcheetah1 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
GIDHIR

Con

GIDHIR forfeited this round.
djcheetah1

Pro

djcheetah1 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
GIDHIR

Con

Ok, I was busy that last round. My apologies. I guess that round's topic will have to do as my closer as well. Ah well, the climactic, final question is whether you should worship god. Let's just put forth a hypothetical, that there was indisputable scientific evidence for some all powerful deity. Why not go all the way and say that there is proof that the Judeo-Christian god is real and the one true god. Now this god made everything, whether it was six days or or that he started the Big Bang. This god also made every human and living thing, either individually or as a knowing result of creating the universe. Finally, this god created a heaven and a hell: if you are a good person you go to heaven for eternity. If you are bad you go to hell for eternity. These can either be more physical locations as described in the Bible or purely spiritual and beyond physical limitations. God also decides who has been good and who has been bad, since he must have some system of judgement, lest he be unfair. Now as I said let's just say we believe that the Judeo-Christian god is real, that he created the universe and all life and sentience, and that he made heaven and hell to punish or reward, respectfully. With all of that accepted I have one last question; who said god's judgement is right?
Here you have a being that makes a world, makes every person in the world the way he wants, and since he knows everything, he knew exactly what you would do any way he made you. He also made a bunch of rules that you have to generally live by otherwise HE will punish you. Some will say, "Of course his judgement is correct, he is all good, it says so in the Bible." Alright, but who wrote the Bible? It's only infallible if god wrote it but you believe god is good because he told you so? And why should you trust this god? Why please some being just because he made you? If you have abusive parents, would you do everything in your power to please them, just because you're afraid of punishment? You should stand up against them, those bullies. And that is exactly what god is; a bully. He twists people's arms and makes them beg to spare them. If God did exist I still wouldn't worship him just to stop fanning his own ego. Anything good he does is because he feels like rewarding on Earth just to cause more suffering on the opposite side of the planet. He is a petty, irrational, egomaniacal, narcissistic, vengeful, violent, brutish, hypocritical, needy, abusive, xenophobic, sexist, homophobic, totalitarian, cold-hearted bully of a deity and he should apologize for the injustices and the pain and the misery and the loss he has caused. And if god is merely a clockmaker and he doesn't intervene to help people then that means he doesn't care about us and we shouldn't care about him.
I implore all readers to ask if all of the supposedly good things god does for you is worth all of the trauma and suffering elsewhere on Earth. If god has a divine plan for all his people that justifies the suffering then prayer isn't going to make him rewrite the plan in your favor. If god does change the plan on occasion "like the time he helped me with my mortgage or cured my aunt of her cancer or helped my niece graduate or got my brother to stop smoking" why does God have an easy time curing these mundane problems and not the economic unraveling of third world countries, or the drug cartels of South America, or the AIDS and famine epidemics in Africa, or the dictatorial rule in North Korea, Russia, China, Iran, and countless other countries? Why does god have favorites, either by helping you and not other people or by having a Chosen People in the Old Testimate? Why does God enjoy suffering so much? If God has authority over everything then why should I follow it?
djcheetah1

Pro

djcheetah1 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by GIDHIR 1 year ago
GIDHIR
What exactly is your religion, if I may ask.
Posted by Rami 1 year ago
Rami
Okay, but I don't want it to debate that everyone should believe in God, because my religon teaches it is better to deny God's existence than to not be a good person.
Posted by GIDHIR 1 year ago
GIDHIR
Hello Rami. Once this debate has concluded I'd love to discuss a debate with you on a similar matter.
Posted by Rami 1 year ago
Rami
This seems like in interesting debate and I feel like I could do more justice than then djcheetah1. But I would like more time.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Chaosism 1 year ago
Chaosism
GIDHIRdjcheetah1Tied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Full forfeit by Pro.