The Instigator
mbrownie
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
ptosis
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Should a government prioritize the humanitarian needs (pro) over the national interests (con)?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/4/2016 Category: News
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 978 times Debate No: 97617
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (0)

 

mbrownie

Con

No, a government should not prioritize the humanitarian needs over national interests. A government still has an obligation to uphold its self-interests and more generally the best interests of its citizens, regardless of what melt-downs may be occurring in the outside world.
ptosis

Pro

Your position is akin to Romantic nationalism philosophy of Hegel (1770"1831) who stated that the Nation does not exist for the people but that the people exist for the nation.

Did I get your position correct?

If debate that I will take the position that the Nation exists for the people and take the John Mills position of Civic nationalism, with values of freedom and individual rights.
Debate Round No. 1
mbrownie

Con

Yes, you did get my position correct.
The second round will be to state your case. I will refrain from this round while you add your first case. The next round will be the actual third and second round.
Good luck and thank you
ptosis

Pro

R13; John Stuart Mill statements & positions: Classical Liberalism http://www.constitution.org...

In the progress of human affairs, when men ceased to think it a necessity of nature that their governors should be an independent power, opposed in interest to themselves.

Government is set up to provide a safe and stable environment within which men can pursue their own private interests; the individual is before government and does not serve government!

"The only freedom which deserves the name is that of pursuing our own good in our own way, so long as we do not attempt to deprive others of theirs, or impede their efforts to obtain it. Each is the proper guardian of his own health, whether bodily, or mental or spiritual. Mankind are greater gainers by suffering each other to live as seems good to themselves, than by compelling each to live as seems good to the rest."
On Liberty

Democratic focus suggests that rulers are the same as people; rulers' interest is the same as the nation, so the people do not need protection against their own will; Government only wants to take care of me.

Greatest harm of repression is to those whose whole mental development is cramped and their reason cowed by fear of heresy.

Munck, The Difficult Dialogue, 22. "That the founders of Marxism had to borrow their theories directly from Hegel to explain nationalism is proof in itself of their backwardness on this topic" (ibid., 13).

http://www.sparknotes.com...
"Kierkegaard, on the other hand, didn"t think that God could be understood or reached through logic. God was greater than, not equivalent to, logic. The only way to reach God, according to Kierkegaard, was through faith"the opposite of reason"for it requires one to embrace the absurd and the unexplainable. While Hegel spent his life trying to explain how to reach God, Kierkegaard spent his life obscuring the path to prove to people that God was beyond intelligence. Kierkegaard greatly admired Hegel but believed Hegel had committed a great wrong by claiming to have genuinely reached the truth."

Hegel's theory is basically that mankind is merely a series of constant philosophical conflicts.
Debate Round No. 2
mbrownie

Con

Round 2:
"Muslim extremists and jihadists pretend to be asylum seekers and apply for asylum in Europe, according to reports from Intelligence and Security Services since the mid-1900's. Then the Dutch Domestic Security Service BVD reported in May 1998 that radical Muslims from Tunisian, Egyptian, and Algerian terrorist organizations had applied for asylum in the Netherlands."
So it seems while governments are guarding their borders and watching for security breaches, the enemies they fear may be coming right through the open front door disguised as asylum seekers.
For example, according to The Washington Free Beacon Magazine says "Two al Qaeda terrorists were able to enter the country as refugees, according to a report from the House Homeland Security Committee. The terrorists settled in Bowling Green, Kentucky, after killing American soldiers.

So those were just examples of the problems America could face with terrorists or people trying to kill us.

But we can still agree to do our part, to help, aiding those in need has always been a priority, but guarding our self-interests, by necessity, is always more important.

Here is a real life example- if you are in an airplane with your kid, and suddenly smoke starts to flood in the airplane, you put your mask on first, even if the child or friend don't understand how to put theirs on. You safety comes first because if you are putting their mask on and you fall unconscious, then you won't be able to help them. That example is a great reference to right now. If we take in all these refugees and we end up being torn apart by the terrorists sneaking in, we won't be able to help the refugees.

A government's actions re consequential in scope, and utilitarian in practice. The utilitarian response of government are not carried out by some innate sense of moral obligation. Governments do not feel guilt, and instead, they act the way they do because such action is inherent in the nature of legitimate government.
Sources:
everydaydebate.blogspot.com/2015/10/pf-nov-2015-prioritizing-humanitarian.html
everydaydebate.blogsport.com/2015/10/pf-prioritizing-humanitarian-needs-over.html
https://newsela.com...
ptosis

Pro

You accepted the debate on Hegel, you agreed to it. I see no traditional metaphysical view of Hegel's philosophy in you third round, therefore I need not respond to a out-of-bounds left field hook about 'refugees terrorists' from the outside when most US mass murders are by home-grown American citizens. And if you want to argue about that, then please challenge me to a new debate. I look forward to another debate with you.

Merry Christmas :)
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by sboss18 1 year ago
sboss18
Just because you wrote it down before typing it doesn't make it not plagiarized. You took someone else's words and used them as your own. Unless you are the owner of Everyday Debate.
Posted by mbrownie 1 year ago
mbrownie
@sboss18
I've written it down for my debate audition a week ago. I literally typed up what I had in my notebook.
Posted by sboss18 1 year ago
sboss18
You literally copy-pasted your Round 1 post.
Posted by mbrownie 1 year ago
mbrownie
@sboss18 it's not plagiarism; I'm not copying anything. I just use the information and if it get's too boring, I change it to my word choices. Plagiarism is copying when in reality I'm not copying.
Posted by sboss18 1 year ago
sboss18
Again, mbrownie is plagiarizing their argument.
http://everydaydebate.blogspot.jp...
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