The Instigator
zhoumsc2015
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
WardMSC2015
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Should abortion be abolished?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/19/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 836 times Debate No: 72004
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (27)
Votes (0)

 

zhoumsc2015

Con

Abortion should not be abolished. Abortion can be a way to save a suffering instead of killing a life in some extent. If the parent can't provide a basic living standard for the child, they shouldn't cruelly force the child to be born and to endure the miserable life. The child does have the right to live, but how could you let the child bear the irresponsible actions of the parents. Having a baby in not only giving birth, but also raising the baby and being responsible for him or her.
WardMSC2015

Pro

Every human does have the right to life. In the situation of a women in poverty, the life of the born child could be a rough one. There is one problem though, you are taking the chance away from a young child to grow out of poverty to become something great. To kill a child, whether born or not is murder in itself. Religious view or not, a child is created at conception and you are destroying a human life. To take a life away from them is a selfish decision by the mother. Anyone can get out of poverty with hard work and devotion, and a child is a way of this. Having the child would then allow the mother to have certain things such as welfare here in America. In any case, studies have shown that adoption is a growing industry that is not difficult in any mean. Why kill when you could make someone else's life?
Debate Round No. 1
zhoumsc2015

Con

Are you even aware of what you were talking about? The argument you are trying to make is actually treating the birth of the child as a tool to get access to the social welfare. You are accusing me of killing lives, while at the same time, you only see the child as a valuable tool. When an unready mother who got pregnant under the circumstances of being raped by an irresponsible young man, the birth of the child will only reminds her of the suffering and violence she had to face, and it will not certainly bring her any kind of happiness nor will it bring the child any good. As one the comment under said, "A living, independently functioning human being deserves the right to terminate her pregnancy at will."
WardMSC2015

Pro

WardMSC2015 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
zhoumsc2015

Con

People say life starts at conception; however, fetuses don't count in population, and birthday isn't the day of conception. Safety of abortion is a serious issue when considering legalization. According to statistics, during 1950s and 1960s, 1.2 million illegal abortions were performed, and 5000 women died annually due to unsafe abortions. The alternative way for young mother to seek legal abortions was throwing themselves off stairs, which could lead to deaths of both the mother and the child. Unsafe ways of has to be stopped for endangering health. To prevent the unsafe methods of abortion, abortion need to be legalized and performed without being ashamed of.
WardMSC2015

Pro

WardMSC2015 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
zhoumsc2015

Con

zhoumsc2015 forfeited this round.
WardMSC2015

Pro

WardMSC2015 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
zhoumsc2015

Con

zhoumsc2015 forfeited this round.
WardMSC2015

Pro

WardMSC2015 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
27 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Kloud 1 year ago
Kloud
What's currently going on? WardMSC2015 has forfeited the last few rounds.
Posted by a_janis1 1 year ago
a_janis1
@Tminusfour20

I believe you are suggesting that since abortion occurs naturally in the marsupial species, then, since abortion is natural, it is naturally an acceptable action. Well, male lions rape female lions of other prides. Therefore, rape is natural. However, we obviously never would say rape is an acceptable action to partake in. Just because something happens in the natural world does not mean that it is acceptable. Therefore, abortion is not shown as acceptable through your nature argument.

Well violating an innocent human being's right to life is the one of the most important issues in the universe. I don't see the arrogance in placing the protection of innocent human beings as a matter of the highest importance.

Yes there will be a great deal of good in the world and also bad whether or not abortion is legal or illegal. However, you will decrease some of the bad and increase some of the good by making abortion illegal.

The woman has the right to her body, but she does not have the right to end the life of the other living human being's body within her. The fetus is a part of her body but the fetus IS NOT HER BODY. This is scientifically proven by the fact that the human DNA of the fetus and the mother are not the same. Therefore, science definitively proves the fetus is not the same as the woman's body. The woman does not have the right to end the life of the human body in her.

Abortion does affect people who aren't directly involved. Hence why we are debating this right now.

And so standing up for an "audience" who cannot speak for themselves is wrong? Protecting the inalienable rights of children who don't even know I exist yet is wrong? It doesn't matter that they aren't born yet. Im defending those who are voiceless.

You cannot kill the child in the womb because removing any chance at continual existence is far worse than risking that the child might be unhappy.
Posted by a_janis1 1 year ago
a_janis1
@Tminusfour20
The sperm and egg are not precious in and of themselves. However, a zygote is an entirely new being with unique human DNA that has never existed before. Furthermore, this zygote is alive as shown by its ability to reproduce. We know the zygote is human because of its unique human DNA. Also, we know the zygote is a human being because existing within that single cell is the entire human potential that is equivalent to the human potential as both you and I. The zygote grows in biological complexity just as a human being grows in biological complexity. A zygote is a human being. Nothing is conceived IN its full potential, rather, everything is conceived WITH its full potential. The zygote is a human being the grows towards biological complexity and grows into its already existing potential. Because of all this, then the fetus would qualify as a human being who is living and therefore has the inalienable right to life.

Humans are fundamentally different from animals. We have free will, capacity to love that which we have never personally known, self awareness aka "I think therefore I am" -Descartes. No animals exhibit these things. Furthermore, if you truly believed humans are no more special than animals, then a human genocide would be equally as devastating as the killing of ants in an ant farm. The killing of those children at Sandy Hook would be equivalent to the killing of an equal number of young animals. Obviously no one would ever even begin to believe this. Therefore, there is something inherently human that makes human life more valuable than animal life. Do you grieve over a dead bird you see on the side of the road since that bird is an animal and animals, according to your argument, are equally as important and special as humans? Humans are more important than animals in terms of intrinsic worth and value.
Posted by a_janis1 1 year ago
a_janis1
@sofia12
"The difference is that by illegalising abortion you are putting the woman's life at risk."

I suppose this may be somewhat accurate; however, that still does not justify the killing of another innocent human being.

"Abortion will happen, you are not guarateeing anything, just that suicidal rates will increase tremendously as we may learn from history."

Suicide would be a very serious issue. But there are better ways of dealing with suicidal women during pregnancy then by aborting the fetus. I personally would take the funding given to abortion clinics and, instead, make counseling clinics. That would save both the child and the mother. But lets also look at depression rates for woman who received abortions. In adult women, suicide rates increased by as much as 7 times for women who successfully received abortions. For teenage girls, attempted suicide rates increased by 10 times and successful suicide rates increased by 12 percent. So if you really want to prevent the suicide of women, as I and everyone should want, then why keep abortion legal based on the saddening suicide rate statistics of women who received successful abortions?
Terzo, Sarah. "Abortion and Suicide: The Grim Statistics."

" Its not infringing upon the right of any one else, its the removal of her own rights upon her body. It is not killing babies (its not even a baby, its a fetus) , it is, the termination of a pregnancy, a right of a woman upon her body."

Well i cannot argue that the mother is infringing upon the rights of another human being until I establish that the fetus is a living human being. But before I do this, I would ask you, why do you believe the fetus is not a living human being?
Posted by Tminusfour20 1 year ago
Tminusfour20
@a_janis1

The right to life does exist to those that live and it cannot be taken away. The issues are what is to be considered human life and when. Sperm/eggs/zygotes/embryos all contain human DNA and have some level of independent functionality but we don't find these things precious. If we attribute all human characteristics to the unborn then it becomes a huge problem but my viewpoint on life forces me to not find humans anymore special or more important than any other animal on this planet. We kill animals every day for our benefit, animals keel each other for their own benefit. Marsupials have evolved the ability to easily abandon their newborn whenever there are food shortages so naturally speaking abortion was a key survival trick for the entire Marsupial race.

It is literally only one of those things that can never be proved with evidence to be wrong unless you view humans and their right to life as more important than anything else in the universe. Unfortunately I'm not that arrogant, good amazing things will continue in the world and in the universe with or without abortion. There will be plenty of happy and unhappy children and this is only a societal issue if you take away women's rights to their body and make it one. It purely emotional and doesn't effect anyone who is not involved. The audience you are truly advocating for isn't even born yet and besides the parent, no one else is really effected by this. T

here is no way to prove that a child would be definitely happier being born or not born regardless of their conditions in life. It's basically advocating the potential of the unborn over the potential of a young woman.
Posted by sofia12 1 year ago
sofia12
The difference is that by illegalising abortion you are putting the woman's life at risk. Abortion will happen, you are not guarateeing anything, just that suicidal rates will increase tremendously as we may learn from history. Its not infringing upon the right of any one else, its the removal of her own rights upon her body. It is not killing babies (its not even a baby, its a fetus) , it is, the termination of a pregnancy, a right of a woman upon her body.
Posted by a_janis1 1 year ago
a_janis1
@sofia12
I would like to intercede for a moment.

It does not matter how many numbers you provide. In the end, you cannot justify the killing of a human being by providing the negative percentages surrounding life itself. It is worse to assuredly eliminate chance at survival itself than risking a child possibly having a negative future based on percentages. The right to life supersedes all other arguments because the right to life is an inalienable right.

Even though we make murder illegal it still happens. Murder, theft, and rape all still happen even though they are currently illegal. By your argument, it would make sense to legalize theft since it would happen anyway. Right? Well, of course that philosophy is false. So arguing that abortion will still happen is an irrelevant argument.

By making abortion illegal, we will be guaranteeing that human children maintain their right to life. So yes, by attempting to make abortion illegal, we are undeniably pro-life.

Of course the rights and safety of the mother are of upmost importance. But we cant justify the right of the mother to infringe upon the rights of any one else, even the child within her.

Also, since there have been so many numbers provided earlier, I suppose i should also give some. At least 53 million children have been killed since 1973. Society is certainly messed up by making it legal to kill babies. Which is why the woman in Roe vs Wade, who fought for legalized abortion, is now adamantly Pro-life.
Posted by sofia12 1 year ago
sofia12
Around the world, there are 17,900,000 orphans living in orphanages or on the streets and lack the care and attention required for healthy development. These children are at risk for disease, malnutrition, and death.
In 2012, 23,396 youth aged out of the U.S. foster care system without the emotional and financial support necessary to succeed. Nearly 40% had been homeless or couch surfed, nearly 60% of young men had been convicted of a crime, 50% of all youth who aged out were involved in substance use and 17% of the females were pregnant.
I'm going to repeat myself here, even if abortion was illegal, it will always happen, you will be putting the woman's life in danger by making her turn to illegal and usafe methods of abortion which can cause infections, death AND the death of the unborn baby, something nobody will be able to stop. So by making it illegal, apart from ending the pregnancy, you will be putting another life in danger, so, do you still call yourselves pro-life?
Posted by Daniel_Nemes 1 year ago
Daniel_Nemes
I did. Your point?
Posted by a_janis1 1 year ago
a_janis1
@Tminusfour20
I'd like to start off by saying much respect to you for standing up for what you believe in.

Now, here is the difference between pulling the plug and abortion. There must have been a cause for why that person is in a coma. Lets say it is a brain injury. The brain injury is the cause of death, not you taking her off of life support. Your action of pulling the plug is not the cause of her death. Abortion on the other hand is the direct and intentional causing of the death of the fetus. And both the person in the coma and the human being have the right to life.

An hour old baby doesn't have any self awareness, memories or true connections to friends. Does that mean neither the fetus nor the baby is human/has the right to life? If you distinguish human beings in comas from that of fetus' by self awareness and memory, then explain how a new born baby without self awareness or memory is any different from your fetus to person in a coma comparison?

The fetus IS a human being with the potential to grow just like a new born baby is a human being with the potential to grow. A lot of people like to say the fetus is a potential human, but that is improper phrasing.

The fetus exists. That is why we can observe and study a fetus. The fetus begins to exist at conception as its own being. The fetus then survives by using the mother's body.

There is a morally right choice and a morally wrong choice when in comes to objective issues. Since abortion is an objective issue, then, by necessity, there must be a right and wrong. There is no in between.

A new born baby is not capable of majority of the things an adult human are. However, they both are considered human beings. So this negates the argument that stages of development change the essence of what something is. A child is just as human as a senior.

The thing I'm trying to help stop is the legalized killing of babies by supporting the inalienable right to life.
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