The Instigator
Cham
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
fishinbub
Con (against)
Winning
15 Points

Should abortion be legal?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
fishinbub
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/24/2013 Category: Health
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,045 times Debate No: 34159
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (3)

 

Cham

Pro

I believe that abortion should be legal. By legal, I mean with restrictions, but is still legal in certain circumstances. The opposer will be fighting for the complete abolishment of abortion. As always, please do not make irrelevant arguments and logical fallacies.

The first round will be for stating your positions and any starting comments.
fishinbub

Con

I accept the debate based on a few provisions.

First, the affirmative (pro) is debating for the status quo on abortion laws. Allowing the affirmative to modify some abortion regulations, without stating what those regulations are in the opening speech, is a moving target argument and fails the burden of the affirmative. The affirmative must state their position in the resolution and support the resolution. The ability of the affirmative to change positions is essentially allowing him/her to change the resolution.

Second, the term abortion shall not include the day-after-pill when used during the medical treatment of a rape victim.

Thank you to the affirmative for framing this debate. =)
Debate Round No. 1
Cham

Pro

Nvm, I was going to use rape as my trump card.
fishinbub

Con

The rape argument is not real world. Every reported rape victim in the United States receives a day-after-pill. The "what about in the case of rape" argument is one that was cooked up by pro-choice politicians to beat pro-life opponents. If you aren't interested in debating real life policy, then there's no point...
Debate Round No. 2
Cham

Pro

What about rape victims that have been held hostage for a week, or more? And they end up being pregnant? What then?
fishinbub

Con

You're really, really reaching here, but I will address it anyways.

1)An unborn child, as a result of rape, is still considered a living human being. For example, I give you the Ariel Castro case.
http://www.foxnews.com...
Prosecutors are pursuing murder charges against Castro for terminating the pregnancies (all a result of rape) of his victims. Clearly the unborn children are still a)alive, b)genetically distinct from both parents, c)human, and d)protected by the 5th amendment right that life cannot to be infringed upon without a trial by jury.

2)It's been shown that mother's can suffer from extreme psychological effects of abortions. Symptoms include include insomnia, crying, inability to concentrate, anxiety, and panic attacks. (Servir 1998)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

3)The unborn child committed no crime. The Supreme Court has ruled that, as part of the protections provided by the 5th amendment, that for a crime to be punishable by death it must be tried upon indictments. This includes notifying the accused of their crime. If the accused has not committed a crime, their right to life cannot be questioned.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

4)Rape alone is not punished by death penalty in the US. The rapist will be arrested, put in prison where they will receive food, lodging, and healthcare, and eventually released. If the rapist who committed the act cannot be punished by death, then killing an unborn child for being a victim (just like the mother) is cruel and unusual punishment. By punishing the unborn child more harshly then the rapist, you are taking responsibility for the crime from the rapist. The rapist should feel the FULL brunt of any punishment from the crime.

5)I challenge my opponent to find a modern case in which a victim was raped, kidnapped, and escaped a)while still pregnant and b)at a late enough date that a day-after-pill would no longer be effective. If he cannot produce a substantial number of cases, then this point does not have enough ballot impact to garner your vote. I would like to point out he/she has conceded that in EVERY other case, he will NOT argue that abortion should be legal. He/she has agreed by concession that abortion in EVERY case (with the exception of a rape/kidnapping where the victim becomes pregnant) is not justified and should NOT be legal. Therefore to win the round, he/she must show that this isolated hypothetical has more ballot impact than all of the other millions of abortions every year.

Impacts
What are the impacts of banning abortions in the case of rape/kidnapping?
1)It saves the life of the innocent child
2)It results in less psychological damage to the mother during a very difficult time
3)It focuses punishment to the rapist, forcing full responsibility for the act on the rapist, helping to deter future rapists
4)It allows society to reap the benefits brought by the child. This child could be the next President, cure cancer, or be a LEO that could prevent a future rapist from terrorizing a college campus.

One of two things will happen in my opponents next "speech".

1)He/she will have no evidence that his/her hypothetical rape/kidnapping/pregnancy case is real world and has actually happened. In that case he has actually conceded that 100% of all abortions are not morally justified and should be illegal.
2)He/she will give an example where his/her hypothetical rape/kidnapping/pregnancy case has happened. In that case he has conceded that in 99.9% of all abortions, it is not morally justified and should be illegal.

Either way, I have clearly won this debate.
Debate Round No. 3
Cham

Pro

I believe that women who could not take the day-after pill and were raped should determine whether or not they can abort their child or not.

I believe this should stand true until the babies can feel pain.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

This is at 35 weeks into pregnancy. If the woman is past that time frame of being pregnant, I believe that the child should be able to live.
fishinbub

Con

1)See point #5 from my last "speech", where I challenged pro to find an instance of his/her hypothetical rape/kidnapping/pregnancy example. I also pointed out that if pro fails to do so, then he/she concedes that this argument has zero ballot impact. Also under point #5 I pointed out that pro has conceded that in all other cases abortion should be illegal. This argument was dropped entirely, meaning that con concedes point #5 at it's entirety. This means pro has conceded that abortion should be illegal 100% of the time.

2)See my Impacts point, which was dropped entirely. Pro has conceded all of these impacts.

3)My opponent has also dropped points 1, 3, and 4, conceding them to be true. I will address each point as I need them farther in this "speech".

4)Pro has offered an arbitrary line at which point abortions should be legal. He/she has given absolutely NO argumentation to support this arbitrary line. This poses several problems.
a)The point at which a human feels pain cannot be the arbitrary line. This discriminates against dozens of humans who NEVER feel pain.
http://abcnews.go.com...
Pro is advocating that these people are subhuman and do not deserve human rights simply because they do not feel pain.
b)The child, prior to 35 weeks, is still human. See dropped point #1 from my previous "speech" which was conceded
c)The child has committed no crime and should not be punished. See point #3 from last speech which was conceded
d)The rapist should receive the greatest punishment of all parties involved. See point #4 from last speech with was conceded.
e)the fate of a human life should not be determined by an entirely arbitrary line. Until the 20th century we arbitrarily decided African Americans are subhuman and women should not vote, despite the fact that no evidence was provided to support this view.
Debate Round No. 4
Cham

Pro

The situation that I have posted is probable to occur, please don't make assumptions. What you have done is attempted to break down my logical process. I did not agree with your points, I simply dropped them due to the fact that I couldn't see your point of view.

I believe that situations like this call for abortion being an option. Therefore, I believe that abortion should not be completely illegal.
fishinbub

Con

My opponent has not challenged any of the points I have brought forward. He/she had also failed to provide ANY evidence that the hypothetical situation has occurred or will occur. We are simply expected to believe it is true. Therefore you as the judge have been provided with no reason to vote pro. See ALL of my points, which were dropped/conceded, and you can clearly see that con was won this debate.
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Skeptikitten 3 years ago
Skeptikitten
For Con I'd like to point out that ACOG reports 10 to 15 THOUSAND pregnancies per year as the result of rape in the US.

Many rape victims do not come forward in time for the morning after pill to be used, due to shock or trauma.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by wiploc 3 years ago
wiploc
ChamfishinbubTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: When it came time for Pro to argue, he wrote, "Nvm, I was going to use rape as my trump card." I assume "Nvm" means "nevermind." Instead of arguing, Pro conceded. Pro could have declined to accept Con's definition of abortion, but instead he conceded. Victory: Con.
Vote Placed by justin.graves 3 years ago
justin.graves
ChamfishinbubTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Ouch. This debate went fairly poorly for Pro. Using poor grammar and spelling... lack of real contentions... yep... this was a total Con win.
Vote Placed by jzonda415 3 years ago
jzonda415
ChamfishinbubTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Con introduced points that Pro never refuted and Pro's arguments were extremely weak (In every round); thus, Con wins most convincing arguments. Conduct goes to Con due to Pro's second round performance. Spelling and Grammar are tied. As for sources, Con wins by providing them and Pro's 1 source doesn't make this area tied.