The Instigator
TheCrookedCop
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
sara_ann_dee
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Should abortion be legal?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/22/2015 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 769 times Debate No: 78006
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (11)
Votes (0)

 

TheCrookedCop

Pro

The debate will be on whether or not abortion should be legal, I will be be for abortion.

Round 1.) Statement and agreement of rules
Round 2.) Opening arguments
Round 3.) Rebuttals
Round 4.) Closing arguments/more rebuttals
sara_ann_dee

Con

I acidentaly accepted this debate because I thought you were for the other side I was. I am soo sorry - do you mind canceling this? I am so sorry for the trouble!
Debate Round No. 1
TheCrookedCop

Pro

Sorry, but I will not cancel the argument because I don't know how, if you wish you can forfeit. I will start my argument.

Abortion should be legal for many reasons. According to studies, legalizing abortion lowers crime rates. Most the people who are going to get abortions were not going to be good parents, they would neglect their kid, these kids then grow up to be gangsters or other types criminals. If a parent wanted to get a abortion, they were most likely not ready, and would make many mistakes and give their children bad lives and lead them to a life of crime. These children would do many bad things, such as murder and rape. Taking the life of a unborn human who will most likely have a bad life or taking the lives of good humans who are having good lives? I believe taking the life of the unborn human is a better and more logical choice.

May I also bring up that this is a big thing for the parents, this will effect and maybe even run the lives of two people. They will be going through pain and for what? A criminal, that they didn't even want. It is not good for anyone or anything.

Also if not having a baby (in a way that does not hurt it) is bad, then so is birth control! The baby doesn't know or feel, so it isn't really living. So what is the difference between abortion and birth control? Both make it so there is no baby, neither make it so the "baby" has pain.

May I also say that abortion is a good deed, you are protection society from what would come from it, most likely a criminal.
sara_ann_dee

Con

Dude that is so unfair - just delete it because I am not prepared, can you figure out how?
Debate Round No. 2
TheCrookedCop

Pro

A real debater should be able to debate against their own opinion, so no I will not even try to cancel it. This was also a breach of the rules so this is a automatic loss to you. But I will go on.

Abortion does not affect anyone but the to having the child, mostly the mother. Why should the government control this? Abortion is about allowing woman the right to make choices about when they want to have children, this should be the parents choice and nobody else. It is in relation to to stability of the parents life, whether it be mentally prepared, psychically prepared, or financially prepared. Not only this, but the fact that often abortion is because you were young. These girls have their lives ahead, why ruin this.

To make abortion illegal because it defies the bible is not right, the constitution states there must be a separation between church and state. And to say it is morally wrong is incorrect, tell me why whether abortion is wrong or right is so evenly split, if abortion? Why is abortion compared to murder, if abortion is murder then why does almost nobody think murder is morally okay, but abortion is?
sara_ann_dee

Con

You are not being fair to me - accidents happen. Just please send a PM to AirMax with your approval to cancel it - there is no point to debate this if I'm not even going to argue. And who are you to not call me a real debater? I don't want to fight for a side I am strongly against - and if you have a problem with that then just end the debate with AirMax. Do me a favor - and don't waste both of our times.
Debate Round No. 3
TheCrookedCop

Pro

Sorry, but I am not ending the debate, because you have not said anything I will not write anything in this, respond quick and it will end.

Sorry.
sara_ann_dee

Con

(Well, I tried to prevent this debate from going forward - enjoy my "pro-life" prespective.

Counterarguments for second round:


Rebuttal 1) You are not using any evidence in your second round claim to back up the crime rates - therefore, that paragraph is invalid. At the end of the paragraph you stated, "I believe," you are aware that you cannot debate based on opinion, right? What if it is not the more logical choice?

Rebuttal 2) Once again, you did not use any evidence to back up your claim. Prove it true that it causes pain to couples - use proof.

Rebuttal 3) Wrong - birth control PREVENTS the baby from developing in the first place - so the couple does not have to worry about having an abortion. Birth control DOES NOT take a babies' life, it just prevents a baby from developing in the near future.

Rebuttal 4) Who is saying it is a good deed? You? Back up your claim with evidence from a DOCTOR or someone of AUTHORITY. You also used the words, "most likely," which means that you are not 100% of the argument you presented - what if the argument you presented was false?

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Counterarguments for third round:

Rebuttal 1) The child never had a say in what happened to them, being an American citizen provides freedom - mostly freedoms of choice. The child should have a say in what happens to them - they never asked to be killed. What if they did not want to be killed? It is not fair to them.

Rebuttal 2) I will tell you why abortion is wrong in my following arguments:(read on)

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1. Abortion IS murder; You stated how most people think abortion is okay - where did you get that claim from? Killing a baby IS murder - killing ANYONE is murder. This is illegal and goes against the law in all the ways possible. Why should it be okay to kill someone already on this earth then someone who is still developing? A LIFE IS A LIFE. Take this statement from a physicial as an example: "Abortion is murder. Each abortion snuffs out an innocent human life. Tragically, doctors have deceived the American public. Referring to unborn babies as "fetus," "embryo," or "zygote," may be scientifically correct, but does not change the fact: These little ones are little human beings. Though called "parasite," "blob," or "tissue," give each wee creature about 266 days after conception and see what emerges from his mother's womb. It will be a human baby, not a zebra, a trout, frog or an orangutan."

2. The 14th Amendment was designed to protect classes of people like the unborn: The 14th ammendment was made when abortion was already illegal. Here is evidence from a senate explaning more (and some more explaning to back it up): "

Senate Sponsor Jacob Howard explained that it was essential for every man (or human being) to be equal in regard to the basic right to life:

I urge the amendment for the enforcement of these essential provisions of your Constitution, divine in their justice, sublime in their humanity, which declare that all men are equal in the rights of life and liberty before the majesty of American law.

Senator Howard also stated:

It establishes equality before the law, and it gives to the humblest, the poorest, the most despised of the race the same rights and the same protection before the law as it gives to the most powerful, the most wealthy, or the most haughty.

House sponsor John Bingham further explained the intent when he argued, as Robert C. Cetrulo writes, that “the Amendment was intended to be ‘universal’ and to apply to ‘any human being.’ Fourteenth Amendment rights were intended not only to ‘pertain to American citizenship but also to common humanity.’”

3. Federal law: Similarly to reason 2, "Federal law prohibits the death penalty for pregnant women until they give birth. (18 U.S.C.A. S.3596) In essence, the law declared that an innocent unborn person cannot be sentenced and put to death for a crime he did not commit. If the unborn child were not seen as a person in the eyes of the law, there would be no need for this prohibition." This means that abortion is technically illegal since it is killing someone for a crime which they did not commit. The child is innocent while still inside the mother - so this is unlawful.

4. Abortion allows man to act against the will of God: The bible is stricly against abortions. Not even just catholics - but MANY religions reject abortions! Part of the bible states: "Jeremiah 1:5Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations’. The Bible specifically instructs that man ‘shall not kill’." This act is against religion and is sinful.

5. Abortion can result in medical complications and psychological trauma for women: Not only is abortion wrong and unlawful - it is also HARMFUL. Here are some facts about ABORTION FATALITY:
  • In 2010, 10 women died as a result of complications from known legal induced abortion; From 1973-2010, 421 women have died as a result of legal abortion (CDC).
  • The number of deaths attributable to legal induced abortion was highest before the 1980s (CDC).
  • In 1972 (the year before abortion was federally legalized), a total of 24 women died from causes known to be associated with legal abortions, and 39 died as a result of known illegal abortions(CDC).
Women who have had an abortion are also at a GREATER RISK OF SUICIDE in the years following the event (154% more likely than women who give birth to their babies).

6. Abortion reduces the number of babies available for adoption: "As of 2002 there were approximately 2.6 million women or 14% of American women waiting to adopt children, only just over 1% managed to complete an adoption. . Prior to 1973 9% of all babies born in the US were put up for adoption and given to happy and supportive homes. After the decision in Roe v Wade this number dropped dramatically to 1%." These statistic show how abortion not only affects the couple and child in question - but INNOCENT CITIZENS whom just want to adopt an unwanted child.

7. Fetuses are capable of feeling pain: This fact does not need to be further explained - it is self-explanitory that EVERYTHING being done to the child he/she can FEEL. Imagine being KILLED/MURDERED while CONSCIOUS!

8. Doctors: Doctors are suppost to SAVE lifes - not take them! This would be going against what the profession is all about - helping lifes. The original text of the Hippocratic Oath, traditionally taken by doctors when swearing to practice medicine ethically, forbids abortion.

9. Selective abortion based on genetic abnormalities (eugenic termination) is overt discrimination: "Physical limitations don't make those with disabilities less than human. The Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 [54] provides civil rights protection to people born with disabilities so they can lead fulfilling lives. The National Down Syndrome Society states that "people with Down syndrome live at home with their families and are active participants in the educational, vocational, social, and recreational activities of the community. People with Down syndrome are valued members of their families and their communities, contributing to society in a variety of ways." [66] The increase in abortions of babies with Down syndrome (over 80% of women choose to abort Down syndrome babies [70]) reduced the Down syndrome population by 15% between 1989 and 2005. [67]" This means that abortion is technically descriminatinon - and should NOT be allowed.

10. Final reason: "Abortion disproportionately affects African American babies. In the United States, black women are 3.3 times as likely as white women to have an abortion, according to the Guttmacher Institute. [68] In New York City in 2012, more black babies were aborted (31,328) than had live births (24,758). [77]" ~ProCon.org

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Well, here is my argument from a pro-life standpoint - I hope you enjoy it as much as I do :). Sorry that you cannot make a counteargument - but under the circumstances, you will just have to cope.

EVIDENCE Citations:
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com...
http://www.lifenews.com...
http://www.abort73.com...
http://www.listland.com...
http://allwomenstalk.com...
http://abortion.procon.org...






Debate Round No. 4
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
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>Reported vote: fazz// Mod action: Removed<

4 points to Con (Conduct, S&G and Sources). Reasons for voting decision: Pro did not make an arguement & did not use sources. Con was OK.

[*Reason for non-removal*] (1) Only Pro produced an argument outside of the final round. So the claim that only one side made arguments is faulted. (2) Both sources and arguments that came from Con appeared solely in the final round, and should either be disregarded due to Pro's inability to respond, or treated as much lesser for want of them in previous rounds. (3) Conduct is completely unexplained, as is S&G.
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Posted by sara_ann_dee 1 year ago
sara_ann_dee
Technically not since i did not forfeit - and I put forward a stronger argument then you did.
Posted by TheCrookedCop 1 year ago
TheCrookedCop
No, my rules stated what would be in each round, you broke that. Auto loss.
Posted by sara_ann_dee 1 year ago
sara_ann_dee
@thecrookedcop I did not break my rules
Posted by sara_ann_dee 1 year ago
sara_ann_dee
I did not break the rules in any way because I technically did not forfeit, you are just upset that I am probably going to win. I tried to warn you - now you will get the loss for not cooperating.
Posted by TheCrookedCop 1 year ago
TheCrookedCop
And if you knew that why did you try to force me to cancel?
Posted by TheCrookedCop 1 year ago
TheCrookedCop
You broke the rules anyway so I win.
Posted by sara_ann_dee 1 year ago
sara_ann_dee
Im not an idiot - i know
Posted by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
Once both parties post something in the first round, the debate can't be stopped.
Posted by sara_ann_dee 1 year ago
sara_ann_dee
That's it - I'm going in.
No votes have been placed for this debate.