The Instigator
TBoneProductions
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Med_Hassan_Bangs
Con (against)
Winning
2 Points

Should abortion be legal?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Med_Hassan_Bangs
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/1/2015 Category: Society
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 510 times Debate No: 78312
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (2)

 

TBoneProductions

Pro

Rules

1. BoP (Burden of Proof) is shared.

2. Religion can NOT be a factor in either one of our arguments. That will quickly twist the topic at hand.

3. Minor trolling IS allowed. However, if it goes on consistently, it will result in a loss of conduct and convincing arguments.

4. First round is ONLY for acceptance.

5. No kritiks, if that's even possible.

Definitions

abortion - "the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy, most often performed during the first 28 weeks of pregnancy."[1]

legal - "Permitted by law"[2]

Sources

[1] http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...

[2] http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...
Med_Hassan_Bangs

Con

I accept challenge.
Debate Round No. 1
TBoneProductions

Pro

I thank my opponent for accepting this debate challenge. I'm looking forward to a good one!

Reasons Abortion Should Be Legal

1) "Abortion is about allowing woman the right to make choices about when they want to have children in relation to their age, financial stability & relationship stability. It is the not the place of government to legislate against woman's choices."[1]

Not all women willingly become pregnant. In fact, according to a study done by PubMed, "among adult women an estimated 32,101 pregnancies result from rape each year. Among 34 cases of rape-related pregnancy, the majority occurred among adolescents and resulted from assault by a known, often related perpetrator... whereas 50% underwent abortion... an additional 11.8% had spontaneous abortion"[2]

How do you think those kids would have been raised if the 61.8% had not undergone abortion, whether it had been spontaneous or not?

2) "Raising a child is not an easy task & requires social & emotional commitment coupled with financial resources. As such if a person feels they are not ready for a child, it means the pregnancy is unwanted & resultant allowing a fetus to grow into a child is worse than abortion since the resultant child will grow in a non conducive & destructive environment without the love, care & stability that a child needs."[1]

Life may be extremely difficult, emotionally and possibly physically, for children conceived in rape. "Researchers estimate that approximately 12,000 children are born as the result of rape every year... When the facts come out, the child usually expresses frustration or rage at the mother."[3]

3) "The argument against abortion is a moral argument which is subject to personal interpretation so should not be legislated against. Those see it morally allowable to do abortion should be provided with the means to do so & those who don't believe in abortion should have the choice not to have an abortion"[1]

Abortion is not like murder, whereas it is generally interpreted to be immoral; Some think abortion is immoral, some don't. If you don't think abortion is immoral, then may free yourself to that right. However, if you're one amongst those whom classify abortion as murder, then don't indulge in any abortionist activities.

4) "A fetus is like a brain dead person with no self awareness or consciousness so it is actually dead."[1]

This further defends argument three.

"A simple definition of consciousness is sensory awareness of the body, the self, and the world. The fetus may be aware of the body, for example by perceiving pain. It reacts to touch, smell, and sound, and shows facial expressions responding to external stimuli. However, these reactions are probably preprogrammed and have a subcortical nonconscious origin. Furthermore, the fetus is almost continuously asleep and unconscious partially due to endogenous sedation."[4]

The fetus can perceive smell, touch, sound, etc. However, it doesn't really smell, touch, sound, etc. It may be aware of the pain it COULD BE going through, but it can't really feel it.

5) "Abortion prevent unwanted & unplanned pregnancies which prevents child neglect since the mother does not want to have children at that moment in time."[1]

When you're suffering because you've been impregnated by rape, you've had a recent divorce, etc., you have a much higher chance of neglecting your child unknowingly.

Let us take Marshall Mathers's, "an American rapper, record producer and actor known as one of the most controversial and best-selling artists of the early 21st century,"[5] childhood as an example:

"He never knew his father, Marshall Mathers Jr., who abandoned the family when Eminem was still an infant... Eminem has been scathingly critical of the way his mother raised him. Through his song lyrics, he has publicly accused her of being addicted to prescription drugs as well as subjecting him to emotional and physical abuse."[5]

Many abuse drugs as a way to alleviate their stress and pain. In this case, Deborah Mathers, Marshall's abusive mother, abused drugs and abused her son as a way to relieve her pain, stemming from her husband's abandonment.

I've got 20+ more to offer in my favor, but I don't need all of it. I can stick to defending these five major reasons, as well as refuting my opponent's upcoming arguments, whatever they may be.

I await my opponent's arguments.

Sources

[1] http://www.news24.com...

[2] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

[3] http://www.slate.com...

[4] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

[5] http://www.biography.com...
Med_Hassan_Bangs

Con

Thanks very much my opponent for your salient points made. However, these should not be the basis on which we should judge that Abortion should be legal.

Abortion is the ending of pregnancy by
removing a fetus or embryo from the womb
before it can survive on its own .

Legal means based upon or in accordance with law.

1)First, a woman can control her own
reproduction in three ways: viz ., (i) by abstinence
from sexual activity; (ii) by contraception; and
(iii) by abortion. (She can also control it by
destroying her offspring after birth; but very few
pro-abortionists argue that infanticide is
legitimate.) Now, no one doubts that a woman
has a right to sexual abstinence and to
contraception. But her "right to abortion" is in
issue. A child does not deserve to die because
her mother and/or her father were
irresponsible. A child is completely
innocent.

2)It is wrong to kill innocent human beings,
especially for no other reason than to make life
easier for someone.
Most abortions are done out of convenience. For
example, a woman doesn't feel ready to be a
mother, she finds herself without much money,
etc. But it is never permissible to kill someone
to make life easier for ourselves or for anyone
else. In fact, if your argument is an argument
from convenience, just ask yourself if we should
allow a parent to kill their two-year-old child for
this reason. If the answer is no, then you can't
justify killing an unborn human being because of
it, either.

3)A child does not deserve to die because
her mother and/or her father were
irresponsible. A child is completely
innocent. Sometimes the circumstances
surrounding a pregnancy are tragic.
Perhaps the woman was raped. Maybe
the baby has been diagnosed with a
defect. Or the woman"s health might be
at risk. However, one tragedy is not
answered with another. We do not erase
a rape by killing a child. We do not cure
a baby by taking his life. And we do not
avoid all health issues by avoiding the
reality of another human being.
Women who have been raped must be
compassionately cared for.

4)A child does not deserve to die for the
crimes of his father. A five-year-old
cannot be killed because his father is a
rapist. A five-month-old unborn child
should not be allowed to be killed for the
same reason.
A child does not deserve to die because
her mother and/or her father were
irresponsible. A child is completely
innocent. A child did not decide that his
parents would have sex or that they
would use ineffective contraception. An
unborn child is always innocent and
should never be punished.

5)Murder is the killing of an innocent human life.
Abortion is the killing of an innocent human life.
Therefore, abortion is murder.
Many reject the idea that abortion (killing the
fetus in the womb) is the murder of an innocent
human life. However, the answer to a few simple
questions prove that the unborn child is an
innocent human life. (1) Is "that" which is
growing within the mother's womb alive or dead?
Of course it is alive. (2) Is "that" which is
growing within the mother's womb animal or
human? Of course it is human. (3) Is "that"
which is growing within the mother's womb
guilty or innocent? Of course it is innocent. The
conclusion then is logically drawn by every
rational person that the unborn in the mother's
womb is ALIVE, HUMAN and INNOCENT.
Therefore, the unborn child is an innocent human
life! Abortion is the killing of the "fetus" in the
mother's womb. Therefore, abortion is the killing/
murder of innocent human life. The unalienable right not to be unjustly killed
applies equally to all human beings. Day One in a
human being's life occurs at fertilization " that
is high school biology. If pregnant women are
human beings, why not when they themselves
were zygotes?

Thanks very much once more and I look forward to refute your up coming argument.
Debate Round No. 2
TBoneProductions

Pro

TBoneProductions forfeited this round.
Med_Hassan_Bangs

Con

Good day my fellow debater, I don't know why you forfeited this round but I am looking forward to good debate in subsequent rounds. However, I will carry on with my argument but I felt it so much for your failure to treat this debate seriously by not posting your refutable argument.

1)Women often feel like they don't have a
choice.
This is something that happens all too often.
Legalized abortion has not liberated women; in
fact, it allows men to control women. They can
treat them as sex objects, then just take them in
for an abortion. Or statutory rapists can rape a
young girl, then take her in for an abortion to
hide the evidence, and Planned Parenthood has
been shown to hide statutory rape, child sex
trafficking , and other horrendous crimes rather
than turning the perpetrators in to the
authorities.
Aristotle wrote that a choice made in ignorance
is not a free choice. Pro-choice people
constantly say that women should have a choice,
yet also consistently fight to hide information
about fetal development, fight against legislation
that requires an abortion-minded woman to see
her ultrasound (which has caused women to
change their mind about abortions, and has
caused doctors, nurses, and counselors to come
out of the pro-choice movement, after seeing the
reality of what abortion does to an unborn child),
and to fight against other common sense
legislation. A movement that fights so hard to
keep information secret can't have anyone's best
interests at heart.

2)No matter the situation, there's always a way
out that doesn't involve taking innocent life.
There are actually more pregnancy care centers
in the United States than there are abortion
clinics. These care centers are designed to help
women in need, such as giving them counseling,
free diapers and car seats, and most of all (and
which the abortion clinic won't do), they build
relationships with these women. Aside from
pregnancy care centers, there are churches that
give families in need free food and other care
services. There are government programs to help
(and I do believe that we need better government
programs, and a society that cares more for
single mothers and pregnant women). The
bottom line is there is always a way out that
doesn't necessitate the taking of innocent life.
Plus, while adoption is a difficult decision and a
heroic one, it does offer a way out that preserves
innocent life. There are currently more couples
wanting to adopt than there are children to adopt
because we are aborting most of the ones who
would go up for adoption (or who would
otherwise be kept).

3) Parents have a special obligation to their
offspring.
Once a man and woman conceive, they have
created a child. Parents have special, basic
obligations to their children like the obligation
not to kill and to provide the basic necessities of
life, like food, shelter, and clothes. Parents should stop treating human life as a means to an end.
Humans are intrinsically valuable, meaning that
they are valuable in and of themselves. So using
them as a means to an end (e.g. as a means to
sexual gratification via pornography) is immoral.
The vast majority of abortions are done for
convenience or to make the parents' life easier
in some way, which is not only wrong because it
takes an innocent life but because it also treats
human life as a means to an end

4)Killing someone is rarely, if ever, in their
own best interests.
This argument seems powerful on its face, but
doesn't hold up to scrutiny. I think it's more likely
that the person making this argument isn't
concerned about the hardship of the child, but
rather is more concerned about the hardship of
raising a special needs child. Even with children
who have severe defects and won't live long
after birth, we are not justified in ending their
lives prematurely . This is another case of
circumstances. I don't think anyone who
advocates abortions for severe birth defects
would advocate killing someone after birth
because they have this defect. So if we can't
justify killing a born child because of a disability
or defect, then we can't justify killing an unborn
child for this reason.
Especially if your reason is only because you
don't want a child to grow up impoverished or
abused. No one would advocate killing children in
poverty or in abusive situations (after all, killing
someone is the ultimate form of abuse). The
right answer is to change the situation, or
advance medical technology to cure the disability
or defect, not to kill anyone who finds
themselves in that situation.

5) Doctors have an obligation to preserve life,
and must not take it.
As people who are specially trained and
educated in how the human body works, they are
also in a special position to misuse their abilities
terribly. Dating at least as far back as
Hippocrates, a doctor was seen as a preserver of
life, not a taker of life, and was seen as having
an obligation not to even give a woman an
abortion or to employ euthanasia.

Thanks once more my fellow debater and I hope that you will carry on with this debate by posting your argument in subsequent rounds. I am looking forward to an interesting one and I just can't wait to refute your 20 more points that you Bragg about in round 1. Good luck.
Debate Round No. 3
TBoneProductions

Pro

TBoneProductions forfeited this round.
Med_Hassan_Bangs

Con

Good day ladies and gentle men, I first of all want to say that my opponent has failed to post his argument for two consecutive rounds now which has clearly shows his inability to debate with me. I don't know the reason why but I hope that he has not giving up and I am looking forward to hear from him in the final round. Good luck.
Debate Round No. 4
TBoneProductions

Pro

TBoneProductions forfeited this round.
Med_Hassan_Bangs

Con

Its finally over, my opponent has intentionally or deliberately not post his argument for three good consecutive rounds which has clearly expose his inability to debate this topic, my opponent has not treat this debate with seriousness at all and therefore I advice that voters take this into consideration, and it pains me when people open challenge they cannot handle. I want the audience to vote on this debate just like any other interesting debate out there and make sure that the winner is determine. Thanks once more.
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by TBoneProductions 1 year ago
TBoneProductions
@NumingDisasterAnon

Well, murder is immoral according to the ten commandments, and a lot of people classify abortion as murder. That's why I make it a rule that religion can not be a factor in our arguments. You'd first have to prove the validity of that religion, which will quickly twist the topic at hand.
Posted by NumingDisasterAnon 1 year ago
NumingDisasterAnon
Just coming in to post to say I found it hilarious that you specified that religion shouldn't be used within this debate.

Given the fact that the Abrahamic holy texts never decreed that abortions were morally wrong. And in fact, in the texts there have been mentions of religious officials performing abortions. Abortions have been around for thousands of years, we just had a few decades of not doing it and suddenly everyone hates it.

At any rate, carry on with the debate, this should be interesting
Posted by TBoneProductions 1 year ago
TBoneProductions
As I said, I am really looking forward
to this debate. However, I would like
to ask my opponent
not
to
post
like
this.
it
is
very
hard
to
understand
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
TBoneProductionsMed_Hassan_BangsTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro ff many times, so conduct to Con.
Vote Placed by Midnight1131 1 year ago
Midnight1131
TBoneProductionsMed_Hassan_BangsTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: FF