The Instigator
emotioncloudsjudgement
Con (against)
The Contender
Shadyy
Pro (for)

Should children have the same freedom as adults?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/20/2017 Category: Society
Updated: 8 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 359 times Debate No: 102100
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

emotioncloudsjudgement

Con

The society that we live in has certainly changed since I was born in 2001. Young people have become more outspoken on issues concerning bullying, mental health, [exam] stress, and many, many more. However I find most circle around the issue of racism, immigration, social justice (including feminism), and the LGBTQ+ community. All of these I find are very emotional and 'tug at your heartstrings' - surely you must've seen charities that depict starving African children, tears rolling down their cheeks and urge you to donate - that sort of emotional.

With this outspoken behavior comes confidence, sometimes amplified by like-minded adults who help them. One example would be the footballer (soccer player) Wayne Rooney, who back in December 2016, launched a campaign against child abuse saying that it is 'never alright to hit a child' and the sort. The problem in today's Western society is that unfortunately for most children I meet or see on television, they become overconfident and lose respect for adults - not treating them as equals necessarily but rather as either senile, backward-thinking old men and women (throw in assumptions of racism, nationalism/fascism, etc.) or as evil, corrupt, power and money-hungry politicians.

There is a very good reason why children are not granted the same rights as adults - in fact, have you attempted to answer the question yourself? Does your answer somewhat fit the above paragraph?

One such reason is that we children cannot deny the physical differences between a child and an adult - the paramount being the development of our brains: the ability to reason, accept (or rationally debate) criticism, and consideration for society rather than just their circle of friends. Another important reason would be the lack of real-world experience. We are far too innocent, unable to see the 'actual' reality (not what celebrities tell us, what charity tells us.). We are led to believe, in the stories we grew up with and what liberal-thinking teachers and parents tell us, that the only good is being united, togetherness, justice for all. And, as if subconsciously re-enacting those stories, the schoolchildren around me aggressively attack anyone who they perceive as racist, misogynist, nationalist, oh... the list goes on.

Just look at what it does to modern university students! Their political correctness has been taken too far and we have childish 'safe spaces' for those feeling scared, students destroying old, imperialist statues and relics, as well as one university in the US banning entry to white men temporarily. In trying to fight racism they end up racists...

So I live in the UK. Around me there are many changes to our political world. Brexit/EU Referendum, people petitioning to ban Donald Trump's state visit, and now we're in the middle of a governmental election for the next prime minister in June. Seeing how my classmates reacted to each event sickens me. It convinces me that I live in a society where children are defeatist, weak-minded losers who whinge and moan when things don't go their way. I saw a 12 year-old boy being punched and pushed violently when he said to his 'friends' that he supported Trump in the aftermath of the US presidential race. He can't even vote for God's sake! I regret that I did nothing to stop them harassing the boy - I should have perhaps given them a taste of their own medicine and explained that he is free to think what he wants.

Another anecdote: during our English class the teacher decided to stream BBC News coverage of the EU referendum, where it was announced earlier that the Leave voters had won the referendum (So the UK leaves the European Union.). The class went borderline mentally ill in their reaction. One boy in front of me piped up and shouted "We're doomed!" and others talked about being deported as they were Indian and other minority groups. And in the end, none of what they had feared had happened - the Great British pound still stands up to the US dollar, no-one was deported, etc. But what made me angry was that the teacher did absolutely nothing. I could tell she was forcing herself to suppress her speech to tell them to normally 'sit down' or 'calm down', etc.. I had a chat with her after the lesson and she started crying, saying something along the lines of working in such a hostile environment (bear in mind she is in her mid-twenties - far from the right-wing stereotype of the old bigot) and that she worried would happen to her if she had voiced her opinion back there in class. I was surprised by her actions and left embarrassed slightly after telling her to consult her fellow teachers on the matter. Imagine my reaction when I had heard that she was struck off as a teacher the week later.

I still think I shouldn't have said that to her, to tell her to speak out - because when she did, she was punished for it. From that day onward I held an extremely bitter resentment towards the liberal-minded of today - far from what classical liberalism was supposed to be. I rarely met other students who were liberal - but also accepting of my critique, those people were the exceptions who I respected. But us children, the majority of us are these aggressively liberal-minded individuals.

I don't think these idiots (who are under the impression that they are educated, intelligent and tolerant, when they are in fact the exact opposite) should ever be given power - not until they have understood the flaws in their thinking, the manipulative information that has deluded their brains into oblivion. Just think of the consequences if we give them the same rights as adults:
- children who have sex with or marry older men/women (you can guess what happens next...)
- irresponsible children who develop drinking or (legal) drug addictions
- children who smoke
- children who drive - and drive brazenly and recklessly, endangering the lives of others (here in the UK most road accidents are caused by under 25s - ~25% of those having passed their license less than six months ago. Imagine what would happen if we let 13 year-olds drive their dad's car around.)
- children who are sentenced as adults. (might as well give them the lethal injection for being useless...)
- children who move out of the house when they can barely support themselves, or haven't even left school yet
- children who start working in some low-paid supermarket/fast food chain/unprofessional jobs and not going to school. This one is a big problem - we go to school to become educated, then use our knowledge to get ourselves a professional job (doctor, scientific researcher, economist, etc.) In other we are the country's future. But many of us self-centered idiots fail to bear that responsibility. Us kids live in a surprisingly small world.

And it doesn't stop there. It's nice and all to try and be independent and think for ourselves, but first we need to be taught how to think (not literally, rather our mindsets - to act a little more mature). I only learned to grow up and stop lying and teasing others when my parents had to hit me many, many times over. But I'm glad that I learned this early on - so I wouldn't become one of those good-for-nothings when I grew up. My abuse also taught me the special value of discipline, and I perform to a good standard in school, and I am proud of it - no cheating, no asking others (who had already done the tests) for answers - all of it is the fruit of my own hard work and effort, the results of revision and tireless practicing. I wonder why my peers couldn't show the same sort of enthusiasm; in fact the enthusiastic students are looked down upon and made fun of for being 'too keen'. The school society is broken.

In other words, expect to contribute to your country (if you don't want to then get out!) and society at the price of being given the privileges of adulthood. Otherwise you are just as useless as, say, a home-squatting druggie with a part-time pizza job - and it would be better for you to be wiped off the face of the earth. Seeing as the majority of us children fail to meet or even qualify for these expectations: no child geniuses who created cures for cancer, no children who saved the stock market - we should treated, and always be treated, as minors.

I will warmly wait for your argument. You seem like a nice person to me - and I would love to debate this matter with you.
Shadyy

Pro

('One such reason is that we children cannot deny the physical differences between a child and an adult - the paramount being the development of our brains: the ability to reason, accept (or rationally debate) criticism, and consideration for society rather than just their circle of friends. Another important reason would be the lack of real-world experience. We are far too innocent, unable to see the 'actual' reality (not what celebrities tell us, what charity tells us.). We are led to believe, in the stories we grew up with and what liberal-thinking teachers and parents tell us, that the only good is being united, togetherness, justice for all. And, as if subconsciously re-enacting those stories, the schoolchildren around me aggressively attack anyone who they perceive as racist, misogynist, nationalist, oh... the list goes on'.)

Yes as you describe children, that is how many adults are as well. Not all children act the same way and not all adults either.
You are just comparing children and adults. The way some children can not deny the 'physical diffrence between a child and adult' an adult can not deny the diffrence between them as well. Being a kid and an adult is the same thing but with one difference, one has more rights and freedom than the other. Which makes no sense.

"I don't think these idiots (who are under the impression that they are educated, intelligent and tolerant, when they are in fact the exact opposite) should ever be given power - not until they have understood the flaws in their thinking, the manipulative information that has deluded their brains into oblivion."

Unfortanetly those "idiots" as you call them have already grown up, and to your knowledge not matured. Because:
("- children who have sex with or marry older men/women (you can guess what happens next...)
- irresponsible children who develop drinking or (legal) drug addictions
- children who smoke
- children who drive - and drive brazenly and recklessly, endangering the lives of others (here in the UK most road accidents are caused by under 25s - ~25% of those having passed their license less than six months ago. Imagine what would happen if we let 13 year-olds drive their dad's car around.)
- children who are sentenced as adults. (might as well give them the lethal injection for being useless...)
- children who move out of the house when they can barely support themselves, or haven't even left school yet
- children who start working in some low-paid supermarket/fast food chain/unprofessional jobs and not going to school. This one is a big problem - we go to school to become educated, then use our knowledge to get ourselves a professional job (doctor, scientific researcher, economist, etc.) In other we are the country's future. But many of us self-centered idiots fail to bear that responsibility. Us kids live in a surprisingly small world.")

many adults surprisingly are doing all this as well and also self centered living in their own small world. Society limits adulthood to children in what cause, to have many them grow up and continue to act the same way?
As I said in our short debate, why not give the right and freedom to children if they have all the energy and time. One only gets energy and time when being a kid because once elderly yor energy goes down the drain. We only get one life, might as well enjoy it, as kids.
Debate Round No. 1
emotioncloudsjudgement

Con

You are exactly right in that there certainly are exceptions to my claims - some children will be mature, maybe even more than their adult equivalents, while some adults failed to grow up and are no better than 10 year-old kids with falling grades.

For your second paragraph:

(Yes as you describe children, that is how many adults are as well. Not all children act the same way and not all adults either.
You are just comparing children and adults. The way some children can not deny the 'physical diffrence between a child and adult' an adult can not deny the diffrence between them as well. Being a kid and an adult is the same thing but with one difference, one has more rights and freedom than the other. Which makes no sense.)

I will require your source on this claim - where did you find this information? Yes, there may be barely noticeable differences between a 16 year-old schoolboy and a 20 year-old college student in terms of physical difference (well, the college student might be a bit more knowledgeable in his studies) but when referring to adults I am talking polar opposites - 13 year-olds with 38 year-olds - and in that case I cannot see how these two are essentially the same thing inside.

Let us both assume that these two live in the city; the boy is in school while the man works for a tech giant. They are both part of an average family (these assumptions give no unfair advantages to one, i.e. not receiving education because he lives with his father in the countryside.) The older man cannot be the same as the younger boy - unless he has learnt absolutely nothing for the past 25 years. He will have physically created more neural pathways/connections (not too much of a science guy) and in objective terms will know more than the boy.

What frustrates me is the lack of evidence/citing sources in your claims - you are saying many things which could or could not be true and, due to the nature of these claims it makes it difficult to Google a satisfactory answer (this issue also came up in our previous short debate)

You also talk about children having more 'energy'. Seriously? What is 'energy' - assuming you aren't talking about Joules or science? You made - another - claim in your previous debate about this:

"the young have time and energy"
"adults have energy but no time"
"elderly has time but no energy"

These are nothing more than general assumptions or stereotypes that you have made of each group. You even state that adults are the same as children - so why doesn't this say "adults have time and energy" or "the young have energy but no time". You can find a lot of children, adults and elderly who don't fit your claims. A child might have 'energy' but their free time could perhaps be spent studying or helping their parents at home or at work. For God's sake could you define what the 'time' is supposed to mean in all of these claims as well! Time for what!

An adult serving his sentence in prison certainly has a lot of time. An elderly man who carries on working past his retirement (my grandfather) has no time and a lot of 'energy'. There are many everyday examples that disprove your claims.

As for the last paragraph.
"why not give the right and freedom to children if they have all the energy and time." - Well, they should be using that time to study rather than mess around and be 'hanging out' with friends. Then they wouldn't become failures of adults when they grow up. They might work as a CEO for Apple, mission control in NASA, basically anything other than unemployment or unprofessional jobs (such as working at the corner shop) As for the succeeding sentence, i have already disputed that.

"many adults surprisingly are doing all this as well" - The whole point of 'all this' is that it's SUPPOSED to be what adults are 'surprisingly' doing right now (and what happens when children try to copy them)! Even so why would you want children to go down the same route and do the same thing - drug addiction, smoking, prostitution - is that a 'good' thing in your book?

"We only get one life, might as well enjoy it, as kids." - 'might as well' does not mean 'need to'. It is not necessary to enjoy life in order to live. Half of the time, enjoying life comes at the expense of someone else's, whether indirectly or directly - and that means the more you enjoy life, the more subconsciously selfish you become - as it then becomes your expectation to enjoy life. To be honest, there are many, many adults and elderly out there who enjoy life also - maybe even more than children. In other words, be patient and your enjoyment will come to you rather than being impatient and suffering life later - bearing in mind that your childhood only makes up about 1/5 of your whole life.
Shadyy

Pro

(Yes as you describe children, that is how many adults are as well. Not all children act the same way and not all adults either. You are just comparing children and adults. The way some children can not deny the 'physical difference between a child and adult' an adult can not deny the difference between them as well. Being a kid and an adult is the same thing but with one difference, one has more rights and freedom than the other. Which makes no sense.)

There is no need for evidence, it is common sense, a kid and an adult are both human and the diffrence bettween the two is that the 'adult' has more freedom than a kid.

(...but when referring to adults I am talking polar opposites - 13 year-olds with 38 year-olds - and in that case I cannot see how these two are essentially the same thing inside. Let us both assume that these two live in the city; the boy is in school while the man works for a tech giant. They are both part of an average family these assumptions give no unfair advantages to one, i.e. not receiving education because he lives with his father in the countryside.) The older man cannot be the same as the younger boy - unless he has learnt absolutely nothing for the past 25 years. He will have physically created more neural pathways/connections not too much of a science guy and in objective terms will know more than the boy.)
This question refers to all kids and all adults and their equal rights to freedom. No "polar opposites." There are many children who are as knowledgeable as an adult and there are other children who are screwing up their life as other adults out there.

(You also talk about children having more 'energy'. Seriously? What is 'energy' )
Energy is the strength and vitality required for sustained physical or mental activity.
Something most elderly people lack, and also some adults due to work.

"the young have time and energy" to live life
"adults have energy but no time" busy working usually for retirement
"elderly has time but no energy" want to enjoy life but not physically able to
(...so why doesn't this say "adults have time and energy" or "the young have energy but no time".)
Because unfortunately, kids do not have the same freedom rights as an adult.

(The whole point of 'all this' is that it's SUPPOSED to be what adults are 'surprisingly' doing right now (and what happens when children try to copy them)! Even so why would you want children to go down the same route and do the same thing - drug addiction, smoking, prostitution - is that a 'good' thing in your book?)

You're making an assumption that only bad things will happen "drug addiction, smoking, and prostitution" if kids were to be given freedom, but what about the good role models? Kids who will become successful in life.
Kids should be given the same freedom as an adult because they are both human that make the similar mistakes but who can also be as knowledgeable and successful in life. I mean you even practically agreed.
("You are exactly right in that there certainly are exceptions to my claims - some children will be mature, maybe even more than their adult equivalents, while some adults failed to grow up and are no better than 10 year-old kids with falling grades.") They are equally the same. Why continue to restrict freedom to the younger ones?
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by TheBlackDragon04 8 months ago
TheBlackDragon04
There are three types of debates on debate.org: retard vs. retard, retard vs. person who's actually smart, and the rarest of them all, 2 people who are actually smart and research facts to battle against each other. I am happy to say that you guys fit in that rare category. Good Luck. Debate on!
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