The Instigator
arthurxanimal
Con (against)
Losing
7 Points
The Contender
Ragnar_Rahl
Pro (for)
Winning
21 Points

Should church owners be able to evade taxes?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Ragnar_Rahl
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/24/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,066 times Debate No: 5808
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (4)

 

arthurxanimal

Con

I believe it's wrong.

Opposition?

Go first
Ragnar_Rahl

Pro

Absolutely, and so should everyone else.

Taxation is the government taking what does not belong to it without asking (theft). Theft acts against one's ability to use what one has created, discouraging the creation of needed goods- and therefore of human life.
Debate Round No. 1
arthurxanimal

Con

I thank my opponent for entering and I hope that he stays in this debate until the end.

Well first off I'm going to assume that you yourself have paid taxes for the past 2 years on the count of your location and age. And I am assuming that you yourself are new to the tax paying 'stage' of life which is of course, adulthood. I, myself am only 15, so I have not yet experienced the 'privilege" of paying taxes. Well first question, do you fully understand the meaning of taxing the people of Americans? No, it's not to make this country miserable and bring forth another 'American Revolution', but to pay for the commuting tools you use in everyday life. Your profile indicates that you are in college (or have taken some college). Well, without taxes, you wouldn't have most of the advantages college provides or have any roads to get to the college. Literally. Taxes do indeed put a dent in the family checkbook but to a good expense.

Now on to the main issue, I will now direct you to http://www.theinformationparadox.com... to understand the basis on which I stand on. If you don't agree with having roads, moderately low costs for food (as to compared without taxes), and many other benefits; than this debate is shot.

I was surprised to see your position on the issue because of you religious affiliation; but I digress.
The fact that we have to pay taxes is never going to change. And for you to think that church owners should be able to evade taxes just because of their personal relationship with their god is simply gratuitous.
Ragnar_Rahl

Pro

"
Well first off I'm going to assume that you yourself have paid taxes for the past 2 years on the count of your location and age."

Technically, I've only paid sales taxes... as a full-time student I have no taxable income, since my parents happen to make room and board so long as I'm a student conditional on certain tasks contradictory to a job, and those tasks happen to be easier than finding a job in an environment where employers are taxed out the wazoo.

"Well first question, do you fully understand the meaning of taxing the people of Americans? No, it's not to make this country miserable and bring forth another 'American Revolution', but to pay for the commuting tools you use in everyday life. Your profile indicates that you are in college (or have taken some college). Well, without taxes, you wouldn't have most of the advantages college provides or have any roads to get to the college. Literally."

Both private schools and toll roads can exist in the absence of taxation (though tuition would be higher, it would also be easier to raise higher amounts of money for paying it). Though the college happens to subsidize buses, I would gladly walk to the college in question on a dirt path if such would eliminate taxes :D.

Further, this doesn't address the moral issue, which is that taxes are theft. If you steal a bike, transportation is convenienced, this does not exculpate you from the theft.

"
Now on to the main issue, I will now direct you to http://www.theinformationparadox.com...... to understand the basis on which I stand on. If you don't agree with having roads, moderately low costs for food (as to compared without taxes), and many other benefits; than this debate is shot."

I do not agree with having roads paid for by anyone but those using them (as they use them a toll road), unless someone wishes to donate. Nor do I agree with food subsidies, nor anything else save what can be purchased in a free nation by willing buyers. So, I guess, shoot away?

"
I was surprised to see your position on the issue because of you religious affiliation; but I digress."

I have a religious affiliation? News to me.

"The fact that we have to pay taxes is never going to change."

Just like the fact that people openly and legally own slaves, or have to kiss the feet of an emperor, or will never be able to mass produce books, was never going to change?
Lots of things change, the trick is to find out how.

"And for you to think that church owners should be able to evade taxes just because of their personal relationship with their god is simply gratuitous."

I do not think they should be able evade taxes because of their personal relationship with some "God" fellow. I think they, and everyone else, should be able to evade taxes because of the personal relationship they have with their own money. That is a distinct difference :D.
Debate Round No. 2
arthurxanimal

Con

People are paying taxes no matter what.

? Are you agreeing with me?

Can you just play the Christian for this one debate, so we can get something going?
Ragnar_Rahl

Pro

"People are paying taxes no matter what.
"
If no one taxes you, there will not be taxes :d.

"Are you agreeing with me?"
Um, no, where do you get that from?

"
Can you just play the Christian for this one debate, so we can get something going?"
FACEPALM.
You want me to commit the straw man fallacy for you?
Debate Round No. 3
arthurxanimal

Con

arthurxanimal forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
arthurxanimal

Con

arthurxanimal forfeited this round.
Ragnar_Rahl

Pro

EXTEND like a nutty monkey mon!
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by johnnyrockit 8 years ago
johnnyrockit
Evade; to avoid doing or fulfilling: to evade an obligation.

If a Church is "Tax Exempt" they are not evading an obligation.

If you were tax exempt would you still pay taxes? I'm very doubtful of that. You have to look at the many reasons that churches are "Tax Exempt." And you are missing a lot of facts. Not all Churches are 100% Tax Exempt. Here is some more Information. Cited at the bottom.

"1. Tax Exemptions Are Not a Right
The most fundamental thing to understand is that no group and no church is "owed" a tax exemption. These exemptions on various taxes are in no way protected by the Constitution — they are created by the legislatures, regulated by the legislatures, and can be taken away by the legislatures. At the same time, tax exemptions — including those for religious groups — are not prohibited by the Constitution."

"3. Tax Exemptions Are Related to Public Policies
If a tax-exempt group — religious or secular — promotes ideas which contradict important public policies (like desegregation), then the group's tax-exempt status may not be granted or extended. Tax exemptions are provided in exchange for groups' providing services to the community; when the groups undermine important goals of the community, then the tax exemptions are no longer justified."

"5. Employees Pay Income Taxes
People paid by the church, whether ministers or janitors, normally have to pay income taxes on their earnings. This is also true when it comes to other payroll taxes like unemployment insurance tax and Social Security tax. One exception on this are the Old Order Amish: they don't have to pay such taxes when self-employed, but they do have to pay when they employ others, even other Amish."

http://atheism.about.com...
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 8 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
Bible bashers? I do hope you meant something else... Bible bashers don't own churches... church owners prefer to do something else with their bibles.
Posted by brian_eggleston 8 years ago
brian_eggleston
I think Con meant should mendacious, exploitative bible-bashers be allowed to evade taxes while decent, hard-working folk have to pay through the nose?
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by jess_ily 8 years ago
jess_ily
arthurxanimalRagnar_RahlTied
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Vote Placed by mastajake 8 years ago
mastajake
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Vote Placed by arthurxanimal 8 years ago
arthurxanimal
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Vote Placed by johnnyrockit 8 years ago
johnnyrockit
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