The Instigator
mulligan54
Pro (for)
Winning
26 Points
The Contender
RationalMadman
Con (against)
Losing
7 Points

Should dance be considered a sport? Should dancers be considered athletes?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 8 votes the winner is...
mulligan54
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/5/2013 Category: Sports
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,884 times Debate No: 28915
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
Votes (8)

 

mulligan54

Pro

In this debate I will be arguing that dance is a sport. The dictionary definition of a sport (according to dictionary.com) is an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess, often of a competitive nature. Dance contains all of these elements. The fact that dance is an art does not mean that it cannot be a sport as well. Dancers train and compete just like other athletes. Let me clarify that I am talking about competitive dancing, whether it is individual or with a team, not simply dancers that perform in recitals. I am also not arguing that dance is a contact sport. Dance does not require on-the-go thinking, but this is an element that many sports do not contain (golf, swimming, diving, bowling, gymnastics, etc) and this element is not requisite to be considered a sport. Dance competitions do have rules and regulations just like other sports. Dancers work very hard and deserve to be treated like the athletes that we are.
RationalMadman

Con

Let be ask you a few questions:
  1. Is pornography a sport?
  2. Is a prostitute an athlete?
  3. Is singing a sport?
  4. Are artists athletes?
  5. Is me having sex with your the pinnacle of your career?
I'd say no to all.

Want to know the truth?

A sport is exactly as you defined it.

A runner doesn't run to entertain as much as to set records and earn money for it.
A swimmer doesn't swim to entertain (In fact if I'm not watching someone of Michael Phelps' level I get quite bored viewing it) they swim to do a certain speed and earn medals.

Dancing is like sex. You learn special moves and routines that are both pleasurable to the soul to do and, when done with others can ultimately entertain viewers very much. You have a coach/director and merely do it for the physically and emotionally pleasurable sensation and only earn money due to SUBJECTIVE taste. In boxing there is always ONE winner for a DEFINITE amount of points earned, in dancing there's no objective measure of points.
Debate Round No. 1
mulligan54

Pro

My answer to each one of your questions is no, with the exception of the 4th question. My answer to question number 4 depends on what type of artist you are referring to because 'artist' is a very broad term. If you are referring to a painter or a sculptor, then my answer would be no. I think that dancers are both athletes and artists because dance is a sport of the arts.
I have previously clarified that I am arguing that COMPETITIVE dancing is a sport. These dancers not only dance to entertain, but they dance to win medals and titles just like the athletes that you've mentioned. They perform a routine and are judged based on a set of criteria, just like Olympic gymnasts or Olympic figure skaters. Judges critique each dancer based on their technique. In dance there IS a definite winner based on an amount of points earned just like you've mentioned with boxing. Obviously you have no knowledge of what competitive dancing is or how it works if you would use that as an argument.
RationalMadman

Con

I think we need to revise our work a little.

Figure skating has a specific set of skating figures such as the typical '8'. The perfection and speed can be observed objectively and marked as can posture in gymnastics. You also failed to prove/justify why either of them are sports as I could easily turn the argument and say neither of the three are. Thus, by stating separate things are sports it proves nothing towards your case.

As for competitive dancing, the marks are usually based on how 'amazing' it was. Two equally proficient dancers can get a 10, 9 or 8 purely based on the mood of the judge that day or whatever the judge might consider a superior way of doing it. Thus, it is not a sport but rather is a form of entertainment, even competitively, in which beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Additionally, dancers do not train to dance with a certain speed or power, only to display it in a certain flow or wit a certain degree of 'beauty' or 'rhythm' this is nothing to do with sports.
Debate Round No. 2
mulligan54

Pro

There is no question as to whether or not figure skating & gymnastics are sports. That is not the argument that we are debating over & since they are both OLYMPIC sports it is a waste of my time to argue over something that is common sense.
So let me get this straight. First you say that 'there's no objective measure of points' in competitive dancing. Now you're saying that dancers are scored out of 10 points solely based on the mood of the judge? You're changing your mind because in reality you have no idea how dancers are judged. What qualifies you to make these statements & say how dancers train? I, being a competitive dancer, know how I train & how I am judged & you are COMPLETELY wrong. We DO train with a certain speed & power to do each move whether it's pirouettes, tour jetes, grande jetes or any other leap/turn. We are NOT judged based on how 'amazing' it was, but on our emotion. Anyone reading this debate can clearly see that you are unqualified to say how we are judged.
RationalMadman

Con

You must realise that you are attacking the debater and not the debate.

Just because gymnastics and figure skating are Olympic sports doesn't ensure their right to be it, just as much as a rapist being out of prison doesn't ensure that they are not a rapist.

My argument that there is no objective judgement on dancing is supported by the fact that it is down to the subjective emotional interpretation the judge has of the dance. If the judge feels that you did a happy dance well because it made them happy then they might give a '7' not a '6' just out of their mood that day. Now, although it's true to say that judges often can share opinions what you'll often find is that on shows like "Strictly Come Dancing" in the UK, the four, equally trained and experienced, judges give different numbers each time. It is VERY VERY rare to have four of the same numbers ranked out of 10 and thus shows that, unlike any sport, dancing is judged based on opinion, not true record.
Debate Round No. 3
mulligan54

Pro

I don't know where you've learned about how dancers are judged but it could not be farther from the truth. Dancers are NOT judged on the 'emotional interpretation' of the judge. There is criteria that the judges follow. Dancers lose points for several different technical mistakes, such as sickled feet. They are judged based on their TECHNIQUE as a dancer not just how their dance makes the judge feel. Dancers are judged on precision and how well they execute certain moves.
Now that we've established that you know nothing about how competitive dancers are truly judged I would like to close by reiterating that dance fits all the necessary requisites of a sport and that dancers ARE athletes that train very hard to achieve goals like other athletes.
To all that read and vote on this debate: Please keep in mind who is qualified to say how dancers are judged, someone who is a competitive dancer or someone who once watched a tv show about dance?
Thank you RationalMadMan for a good debate.
RationalMadman

Con

Throughout the personal attack of a debate, pro has failed to address the issue of it being down to subjective opinion of the technique and also failed to explain why on "Strictly Come Dancing" in the UK where there are four highly experienced expert judges they very rarely rate the dancer the same number out of 10, which would be normal if they were using objective marking schemes.

A sport requires an objective measure of skill of some kind and unfortunately dancing offers no such structure to the judging (other than this supposed 'sickled feet' which was a new point raised in the last round and although it's true really is ALSO down to one's opinion of how pointed the toes are (and additionally is ONLY RELEVANT TO BALLET).

Dancing is an art for entertaining the viewer and just like most men would probably agree on an amazing porno and a crap porno, they would also rate it very differently because of their personal emotional response to the performance.
Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Teleport 1 year ago
Teleport
hard not to take a peek at this one, Damn Mulligan is good looking!
Posted by GarretKadeDupre 1 year ago
GarretKadeDupre
Aww you shouldn't have left this site just because of that problem with a user you mentioned :( That's what the block user option is for on your profile!
Posted by mulligan54 1 year ago
mulligan54
GarretKadeDupre It is very very hard to debate on something that you feel strongly about. And this is my first debate so I'm still learning how it all works.
Posted by GarretKadeDupre 1 year ago
GarretKadeDupre
This debate demonstrates how difficult it is to argue professionally on a topic with which you are very emotionally involved. However, I enjoyed it very much. This has been my favorite debate on this site, actually.
8 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Vote Placed by Azul145 1 year ago
Azul145
mulligan54RationalMadmanTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro is one of the hottest girls I have ever seen.
Vote Placed by MochaShakaKhan 1 year ago
MochaShakaKhan
mulligan54RationalMadmanTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Con's argument was a mess. Pro showed that competitive dancing is a sport as defined in this debate.
Vote Placed by threenorns 1 year ago
threenorns
mulligan54RationalMadmanTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: i feel that the contender was being facetious. many of the points made were, if not outright rude, at least inside the "troll" boundary. to the instigator, a knock-dead argument would be to compare to Ms Fitness routines, where female athletes display their physical prowess using a combination of dance and gymnastic moves set to music. competitive dancers do the same - they display their physical prowess and knowledge of the dance style.
Vote Placed by GarretKadeDupre 1 year ago
GarretKadeDupre
mulligan54RationalMadmanTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: I was on the fence before I read this debate, but Con has convinced me to agree with him. This is mainly because of his point that out of multiple judges, rarely will even two of them give a dancer the same score. This is practical evidence of his argument that dancing is judged mostly on subjective opinion. I gave the conduct point to Con because of Pro's ad hominems. I also gave the conduct point to Con, because while he didn't use sources in the typical way, he did reference self-evident facts; Pro, on the other hand, tried to source herself. Some voters are defaulting the win to Pro because dancing fits her definition of sport. I don't think this makes sense, because the resolution was not to prove dancing fits the definition of sport, but convince the audience that dance *should be considered* a sport, and further, Pro didn't prove her second resolution that dancers should be considered athletes.
Vote Placed by likespeace 1 year ago
likespeace
mulligan54RationalMadmanTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro explained how dancing fit the definition of "sport". Con argued an off-topic point about whether there was an objective measure of the winner--that was irrelevant as "objective" does not appear in the definition of sport they were using in this debate.
Vote Placed by Xerge 1 year ago
Xerge
mulligan54RationalMadmanTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro showed how dance fit the criteria of a sport as defined. Con didn't adequately refute this.
Vote Placed by AlwaysMoreThanYou 1 year ago
AlwaysMoreThanYou
mulligan54RationalMadmanTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con's 5th question forces me to give him conduct. Seriously. Counter me, noobs.
Vote Placed by Magicr 1 year ago
Magicr
mulligan54RationalMadmanTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro clearly explained what the standard would be for deciding if dance was or was not a sport through her definition. She then explained how competitive dance fulfilled the definition. Con did not challenge the definition and instead made unfounded and off-topic statements that never really refuted Pro's arguments. Sources on the way in which dancing competitions are judged would have been a nice addition from both parties.