The Instigator
15538
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Med_Hassan_Bangs
Con (against)
Winning
1 Points

Should gay marriage be legal (not is it right)?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Med_Hassan_Bangs
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/7/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 534 times Debate No: 78477
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)

 

15538

Pro

I am arguing the legalization and not whether or not it is right. I think that gay marriage should be legal because It does not affect you if you are not gay. Just because gay marriage is legal docent mean that the government is going to force you to divorce your spouse and get married to your same sex. If you are worried about God's approval than don't get married to someone of the same sex. If someone on tv gets married and you see it you are not going to hell. This reminds me if The Stanford Prison Experiment. A group of 24 boys were put into a prison like setting. twelve of then were guards and the remaining 12 were prisoners. The experiment was shut down due to abuse of power resulting in multiple prisoners having mental and or emotional breakdowns. The guards knew that they were randomly selected and they could have been the prisons; Still, the guards physical and emotional abused the prisoners, locking them in closets in which they could neither stand nor sit fully. My point being if the majority of people were gay than all of the state people would be discriminated against. What the norm is doesn't matter, only that there is one. "Words have no power to impress the mind without the exquisite horror of their reality" -Edgar Allan poe. In this case the reality is that the majority of people are straight also that is the only thing making it wrong to be married. According to the law parents and teacher can physically restrain children with little cause. You can also smoke marijuana in some places and drink alcohol by a certain age. No one is arguing against this, though, this is against many religions. Why is gay marriage any different? By the way I am not gay, I was raised Mormon and by seven I was questioning religion now at 13 I have decided that I don't believe in god. I stopped going to church and I have now been banned from my church. I know many gay people and they are some of the best people I know.
Med_Hassan_Bangs

Con

Thanks very much my opponent for your personal opinions which are not fact and therefore cannot be relied upon as you fail to back it up with concrete evidence but rather saying something completely unintelligible. However, I want to start by defining certain words on your debate topic.

gay marriage
noun
marriage between partners of the same sex
(as recognized in some jurisdictions).

Legal means permitted by law.

right
adjective
Morally good, justified, or acceptable.

"I am arguing the legalization and not
whether or not it is right. I think that
gay marriage should be legal because
It does not affect you if you are not
gay. Just because gay marriage is
legal docent mean that the government is going
to force you to divorce your spouse and get
married to your same sex. If you are worried
about God's approval than don't get married to
someone of the same sex. If someone on tv gets
married and you see it you are not going to hell."

The above statement have so many grammatical and spelling errors which have expose my opponent's inability to spell and write well and above all it is base on what he thinks and not what is generally true(fact).

To start with,my opponent's opinion "that
gay marriage should be legal because
It does not affect you if you are not
gay. " is completely false as it affect the whole society whether you are Gay or not. According to one research done by:

Yale Child Study Center psychiatrist Kyle
Pruett reports that children of IVF often ask
their single or lesbian mothers about their
fathers, asking their mothers questions like
the following:"Mommy, what did you do with
my daddy?" "Can I write him a letter?" "Has
he ever seen me?" "Didn't you like him?
Didn't he like me?"

from this research one sees that children are one of the people of society who are mostly affected as they either not stay with their biological Mother or Father as the case may be and may even be victims of assault or maltreatment as that concrete love is completely absent because their biological parent(s) are not present.

"Just because gay marriage is
legal docent mean that the government is going
to force you to divorce your spouse and get
married to your same sex."
This statement has grammatical as well as spelling error but I will manage it anyway. Yes of course this is true, the government will not force you to leave your spouse but the legalization of same sex "marriage" will devalue traditional marriage,public morality, and also it will risks so many children to not staying with their biological parents(Mother and Father).

"If you are worried
about God's approval than don't get married to
someone of the same sex. If someone on tv gets
married and you see it you are not going to hell."

I want you to start taking English classes because your grammar is so poor and unintelligible. Of course God will never approve something as immoral as same-sex "marriage" as it is against his plans not only for humans but for all other Animals. As we read in the Book of Genesis: "God created man in His
image; in the Divine image he created him; male
and female He created them. God blessed them,
saying: "Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and
subdue it."" (Gen. 1:28-29)
The same was taught by Our Savior Jesus
Christ: "From the beginning of the creation, God
made them male and female. For this cause a
man shall leave his father and mother; and shall
cleave to his wife." (Mark 10:6-7).

Also your argument that "If you are worried
about God's approval than don't get married to
someone of the same sex. If someone on tv gets
married and you see it you are not going to hell." is completely wrong. Just has the old adage says"The righteous suffers together with the wicked." We see that it is also evident in the Bible which most non-religious people will not believe but that does not makes it wrong, The destruction of "Sodom and Gomorrah" for Homosexuality is a clear example even though not all of them were homosexuals.
(Gen.19:24-25)
"The Lord rained down sulphurous fire upon Sodom
and Gomorrah. He overthrew those cities and the
whole Plain, together with the inhabitants of the
cities and the produce of the soil."
from the above quotation one see that a whole city or society can be destroy whether you watch it on Television or not as long as you do not try and fight against it(same-sex "marriage")

To crown it all, the issue of smoking marijuana and drinking alcohol in certain place and at certain age is a "straw man" as that is completely out of the subject of argument which is whether Gay marriage should be legal. I am looking forward to a good debate so please try to spell and write good English and do not argue based on what you think but base on fact. Good luck.

Sources::

[1] http://www.tfpstudentaction.org...

[2] http://www.frc.org...
Debate Round No. 1
15538

Pro

Thank you for responding. First: I have dyslexia and autism so I apologize for my poor use of grammar, though I did not edit my last argument and I commonly make errors because my brain works faster than my hands. Second: I do not believe that in debates you are suppose to attack your opponent personal, that is all you did in your argument; Being the nature of your argument I do feel personally attacked. I am recognized for the material in my writing and I am a 97 and above percent student. I do recognize that I did make mistakes. Third: I am not dedicated to this enough to do tones of research I intend and intended to debate option, my option not one of a professionals or I would just give you a link to an article. If that is not what you are looking for then don't respond. On to the debate now:

The firsts point, presented by my opponent is, that is an argument is: 'gay marriage effects the children of these couples'. The material you offer suggest that kids are asking their parents questions about the parent of the other sex. Why is this a bad thing? It seems very healthy for a child to be asking questions of that nature. Why is being exposed to gay couples damaging where as being exposed to strait couples is not? If a child grows up in a community of gay people same sex relationships will be odd to them. Would you shield them from same sex marriage relationships? I fail to see the difference.

The tittle of my argument is "Should gay marriage be legal (not is it right)?" Stop quoting the bible please. I have read it. Matthew 10:34 34"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35"For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;"" That seems pretty screwed up. According to this children should hate their parents and actually fight them.

What I said about the marijuana and the drinking related because, as I said, According to many religions, you should not smoke anything and you should not drink. These two things are legal in certain places and made much less on impact upon legalization than gay marriage did.

I had little to argue against because I was offered little that was not an attack. I would appreciate that not continue. Thank you.
Med_Hassan_Bangs

Con

I first of all want to use this opportunity to apologize for making my opponent feel personally attacked,I beg your your pardon for I did not intend to attack your personality.

I want my opponent to know that the issue of children questioning their lesbian parents is pointing out clearly what children undergo in number of gay households. Gay marriage denies children from staying with their biological mother and father which is mainly why traditional marriage was set up,for the purpose of procreation which enhanced human existence from generation to generation. This is just one of the reasons why same-sex marriage should not be legal. I believe that even you my opponent will not love the idea of not staying with your biological mother and father, so why denying others to do the same.

Also I want my opponent to know that the reason why I come up with religious ideology is as a result of his claim about whether God will approve you to carry on same sex marriage or whether if people who watch it on Television will go to hell. I want my opponent to know that I am not denying the fact that he has read the bible but his level of understanding brings the question. From this Bible verse which is contradictory at the surface but contains truth when thoroughly looked into.

Matthew 10:34
34"Do not think that I came to bring peace on
the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a
sword. 35"For I came to set a man against his
father, and a daughter against her mother, and a
daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;""

These words were said by the master himself(Jesus) after sending his disciples on a mission, what Jesus who is the savour of mankind was saying is that his people(believers) shall be kill or persecuted for his sake and family shall be turn apart. How can Jesus who is the regarded as the peace maker brings war. That why the bible says that " For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world
through him." John 3 17
Can a man be warrior and saviour at the same time? of course no.

Finally, Same-sex marriage should not be legal because tax payers dollars are use to finance some thing they are against there by being unfair to society as people will be force to pay for what they don't believe is right. Good luck
Debate Round No. 2
15538

Pro

15538 forfeited this round.
Med_Hassan_Bangs

Con

Thanks very much my opponent for sharing your views on this debate topic, even though I was looking forward to your response on this final round which you forfeited for reason best known to you, I look forward to debate with you again in the future. Thank you and good luck.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Guffrus 1 year ago
Guffrus
vs straight families.

Homosexuality is not harmful to society. Bigotry is harmful to society.

Homosexuality is an uncomfortable thing to deal with if you are a religious fanatic but this is not a reason why the activities of homosexuals should be limited, no doubt you could find some amougest them who would prefer that gays wear bells around their necks so that they could be given early warning when they are going to have to encounter these humans who are different to them.

(Ah, and here we have an example of changing things around)

Its also obviously not cool to force religious fanatics to wear bells either, though if we were going to pick one or other of these groups to wear the bells I frankly wouldnt be choosing the gay people.. =P

If you always look for what will maximise the personal freedoms of all involved in any situation you will never be far of whats right (and likely you will always be right)

I should probably point out that Med was right so say that the stuff about mary jane etc was irrelevant, it is. Stay on message. Also there are always people arguing every point, so it wasnt correct to say that no one was making noise about x, y, z etc. But it doesnt matter that isnt the point. As you identified previously 1 person being oppressed is enough.

Congratulations on breaking free from religion, I hope you have many years of expanding your understanding of the world.

Really cant stress enough the importance of logical fallacies though, thats 101 for arguements and will serve you well as a filter for all information you are exposed to in future. Nonsense and foolishness is all around us, mostly people dont know better but there is no shortage of those who do trying to abuse us also.

Hope this is of some help to any who read it.

Takecare

Geoff
Posted by Guffrus 1 year ago
Guffrus
continued.

You need to do a search for logical fallacies and give yourself a crash course on the subject because its a fundamentally required skill in order to successfully debate. He is going to beat you over the head with it and has already started, personal attacks (ad homiem and straw man etc)
But what he says are logical fallacies too. All the religious arguements and the Yale data are arguements from authority. They are valid either.
Its often useful to turn things on their head aswell, frequently we associate a lot of preconcieved ideas to words and it can blind us from obvious truths.
I cant think of a good example off the top of my head which is annoying but gender is a great example, take virtually any statement which says men are this and women are that or vise versa etc and you will find the problem quickly.

You need to stay focused on the specific topic it is the only thing that matters. He is trying to bring children into the arguement, because its an easier point to argue. But marriage doesnt always involve children.

You need to address this 'whats good for society' issue, it shouldnt be too hard really, he is claiming that children asking questions about the world in which they live is a proof of homosexual child abuse and it just isnt thats actually lol funny and just plain wrong.

Gay people should have the same rights as non gays. So gay people should be able to get married. Force him to address the point directly and explain why gay people should be considered to be second class citizens and supply evidence demostrating how the evils of giving them the same rights are more damaging to society than a class of people being excluded / partially excluded because of their orientation.

Combat the child abuse issue on grounds of single parents vs gay parents, Im confident you will be able to find data showing that stable gay families produce children with less problems than single parents etc and likely that are comparable or even favou
Posted by Guffrus 1 year ago
Guffrus
Nongambler48 : Interesting point about breaking away from the nation religion. I disagree totally on the basis that the church and state should not be mixed (because history (and sadly the present in too much of the world) is filled with example of religious dogma causing pointless and avoidable human suffering) and also obviously the violaton of the declaration of human rights.
I still like the point though, made me stop and think for a moment though I think ultimately for me it just led to the destruction of the arguement that foreign people should adopt the culture they move into.

15538 = best of luck to you in your debate, I hope you will find strength in knowing that you are right, whether you are able to adequately express this in formal debate or not. You need to forget the idea that the purpose of debate is to find truth, it can be, and between honest open minded and enlighted individuals seeking the advancement of thier understanding debate can be a powerful tool for exploring ideas, indeed it is the basis of the evolution of our legal systems etc. However in this setting the ability to demostrate that your side of the arguement is 'better' is the only objective.
Your opponent is clearly more experienced in formal debate than you are which is going to be a problem, but he is neither right nor strong if you know what is valid and what isnt valid etc.
Dont get sucked into the idea that just because he is more experienced that he is honest and self aware, by that i mean that he isnt guilty of the same crimes which he assigns to you.
Religious dogma is not fact. The portion of the Yale study he cited does not support his arguement. (He is implying conclusions and making appeals to emotion) He also didnt link to the study. So we dont even know their (Yale) conclusions.
Beware his attempt to control the language, by defining right as 'moral' he is excluding all non religious outcomes on the basis that they are immoral (against his religious belief.
Posted by nongambler48 1 year ago
nongambler48
the way I look at this gay marriage issue
is that if a nation chooses Christianity as its main religion,
then that puts them under obligation to observe and try to live by its principles.
if people within that nation decide to as it were "break free" and call for the right to do what is "unnatural" by marrying someone of the same gender,
that presents a serious challenge to those who strive to remain loyal to the god of Christianity.
do they consent to the cries and demands for change
or do they show loyalty and faith by refusing to lower standards to suit those that don't believe in doing things properly?
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
15538Med_Hassan_BangsTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro ff a round. This is poor conduct.