The Instigator
SuperSith89
Con (against)
The Contender
hotsauce2910
Pro (for)

Should gay marriage be legal?

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hotsauce2910 has forfeited round #4.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/17/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 499 times Debate No: 102642
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

SuperSith89

Con

Should gay marriage be legal? I say no to this, and will explain why in round 2. Argument will be broken down like this:
1 - Accepting challenge
2 - Opening Argument
3 - Rebuttal
4 - Rebuttal
5 - Closing statements

Please remain kind during the debate, no foul language, and enter into it with an open mind. Thank you.
hotsauce2910

Pro

I accept this debate
Debate Round No. 1
SuperSith89

Con

Thank you so much for accepting this challenge. Let me start this by saying I do not hate the gay people at all and do not condone hateful actions towards them. I do not however, agree with their actions or belief in any way. Now that that is out of the way, I would also like to add that this is a debate about whether it should be legal, and not whether or not being gay is right. This debate is strictly about the legal side of it.

To begin, I would like to ask you this. What is child equality? To me, it is making sure that a child is raised with opposite genders to be able to become a well rounded adult. A boy with two mothers cannot get the male support they NEED. Teachers seem to be almost all female these days and if that boy does not have a male figure teaching him how to be a good father one day, then that seems unfair for the boy. Same for girls. If a girl has to male fathers, then they do not learn how to be a good mother or wife someday. Believe me, we men are not capable of understanding the complexities of the woman mind. Same can be said for the opposite on both. Opposite genders are crucial for child development.

Another factor in gay marriage not being allowed to be legal is our society. The world is built around heterosexual couples. We are almost all here because of it. Nature is completely heterosexual as well. It is basic biology, that we as humans need to have a male partner to reproduce and then raise that child to do great things and be better than ourselves. For years, this has been the social norm, but now we have this new idea coming about and it goes against the natural order. Is it bad? To me yes, because of sin. Say what you want, sin is definitely bad. There are almost 125 in the Bible and 10 of them stick out (cough cough). Are any of these sins against what we would see as bad? Murder, rape, adultery, theft, and the list goes on. Name one reason to go to jail that doesn't involve a sin of some kind. Now of course everyone sins, and I cannot control anyone or stop them from sinning. When your country commits a sin like that, then that is when things go wrong.

Our nation is here because of God. The pilgrims who fled to be allowed to worship in the way they want. The odds of America winning every major war, just barely, and still coming out as the number one country in the world. Our Pledge of Allegiance, our dollar bill even. Our country is one UNDER GOD, thus we must follow the commandments. Our country has been slipping away from God though, and there is evidence that we are losing our place in the world. Racism has become a large issue recently, the feminist movement, unrest over the election, people wanting to split (cough Civil War cough) and other countries are gaining power as we speak. Let's not forget our outstanding debt either. We could never be in a worse spot, and I think legalizing gay marriage just cut the string even more that ties us to God's protection.
hotsauce2910

Pro

The prohibition of gay marriage would be against American ideals. The U.S. Declaration of Independence stated that "all men are created equal," have the rights to "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness," and it is the government"s role to "secure these rights." In the spirit of the Enlightenment era values, the United States was found upon (and given that marriage has been ruled a fundamental right by SCOTUS), it is only appropriate that gay marriage is legal " that homosexuals have the same rights as heterosexuals to marry who they want. The NAACP and SCOTUS have both named marriage a civil right. In not allowing same-sex marriage, we would be obstructing this right. Furthermore, there are 1138 legal benefits to marriage. By denying homosexuals the right to marriage to who they want, we are denying them these benefits.

The legalization of same-sex will improve the lives of many of the nation"s youth. In the U.K., 10% of adopters were same-sex, but only 1.5% of the population has identified themselves as same-sex. In the U.S. Based on these statistics, we can note a higher rate of adoptions among same-sex parents (which is backed a by a basic understanding of how babies are made). By allowing (keeping) same-sex marriage and thus more stable families, we can boost the adoption rate of children into stable families " and it is undeniable that adopted children are better off living in a stable family. On a separate note, it would also serve well on lowering teen suicide. According to the CDC, LGBTQ teens (7-12 grade) are twice as likely to commit suicide than heterosexual teens. By creating a more accepting environment to homosexuality, this issue will begin to improve as the idea of being a homosexual would not be as vilified.

Same-sex marriage can be beneficial to the economy. In the first year of legality in New York City, gay marriage led to 259 million dollars entering the city"s economy. In the first five years of legality in Massachusetts, same-sex wedding expenditures alone brought 111 million dollars into the state"s economy. Same-sex marriage helps labor as well. Certain big companies believe that by accepting same-sex marriage, LGBTQ workers will be more effective as they will not have much social strain draining their focus.

Finally, society is becoming increasingly accepting of same-sex marriage. According to the Pew Research Center, between 2007 and 2014, most Christian groups are more supporting of homosexuality, and as a whole. In 2007, only 44% of Christians accepted it, but by 2014, homosexuality was accepted by 54% of Christians. Furthermore, a different study by Pew found that society as a whole has become more accepting of homosexuality. A little over ten years ago, 55% of Americans were opposed to same-sex marriage, while only 35% were in favor it. In 2016, however, only 37% opposed it, while 55% of Americans support same-sex marriage.
Debate Round No. 2
SuperSith89

Con

I'd like to start by asking if marriage is a privilege or a right? The constitution states our rights to bear arms and have the freedom of religion to name a couple. I read each amendment carefully, yet none seemed to mention a right to marriage. The Constitution, and not the Declaration of Independence, are what to look for when discussing rights and privileges. Marriage is probably considered to be a pursuit of happiness, but it is more privilege than right. Privileges can be taken away and some do not deserve it. Though the NAACP and SCOTUS hold a great weight, the Constitution is still the final word.

While reports show that children's lives have been improved by same sex marriage, there is still an issue of developing fully from a opposite sex marriage. On the surface, yes it may be better, but just getting love from parents either way is just the tip of the iceberg in parenting. "Fathers reduce behavioral problems in boys and psychological problems in girls." (ic.galegroup.com). Two mothers cannot be a good father and two fathers cannot be a good mother. The ideal family structure is essential to the proper development of children. There is also the problem of confusing a child's view of sexuality, leading the child to become a homosexual (due to research supporting environmental causes).

This next paragraph where you talk about it being beneficial to the economy doesn't really fit into this. This just goes to show that when businesses accept gay or lesbian workers, they don't have much strain. Either this wasn't explained very well, or it doesn't have to do with marriage being legalized. Now with the first part, maybe it can help the economy, but if that is someone's main reason for marrying with the same sex, then are you really using marriage for the right reasons?

This last paragraph doesn't support the argument at all. Ok, there does seem to be growing support for it, but that's it. People can support something all they want, but does it mean they are right? Take the Confederates during the Civil War for example. Many of them believed slave owning was fine and I'm betting the numbers would look the same for American's support as the numbers are showing for homosexuality. Were the Confederates right? No, yet they still fought a war for it. I'll even go as far as to bring in Civil War from Marvel. Captain America and his side were on the losing end in terms of numbers. The governments of the world stood against them, yet I believe they were on the right side. Not the greatest example in this, but just goes to show that opinion does not hold any merit to legality. At least not until it is written into the Constitution.
hotsauce2910

Pro

In response to the opening argument only.
It has been proven that same sex parenting does not have a negative effect on the development of children. According to researchers from NYU, "science shows that children raised by two same-gender parents do as well on average as children raised by two different gender parents."
Your point that reproduction requires a male and a female is irrelevant. Marriage is not solely about reproduction. Otherwise, should asexual people be forbidden from marriage? Should it be illegal for infertile people to marry?
Christianity and religion is not a reason as to why a law should be put into place. If we created laws because of what the bible says, it would be a connection of church and state " entities that America has strived to keep separate. The first amendment says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." Furthermore, in Lemon s Kurtzman (1971) the supreme court ruled that any non-secular law (or with too many ties to religion) is against the first amendment. Using the bible as legal reasoning goes against that. And while America says they are one country under god, there is a clear rule that one cannot be forced to adhere to religion.
How is the legalization of same-sex marriage hurting us? While we do appear to have political and ideological polarization in the United States, same-sex marriage is not very polarizing. A majority of Americans support it, and it is trending in the direction of supporting it. It has no relation to other countries becoming more powerful. The republican party is becoming more accepting of same-sex marriage. They had a homosexual speak at their convention, and Donald Trump supports homosexuality.Furthermore, even if we did de-legalize same-sex marriage it would not bring people closer together. People who support same-sex marriage would still support it and the polarization would still exist.
Debate Round No. 3
SuperSith89

Con

In response to your rebuttal:

While the studies shown that same sex parents are better, they are speculative and biased at best. The sheer number of opposite sex to same sex marriage proves that there is little data to work with in this field and the few patients tested are rather biased with positive reporting and social desirability. I would explain further on the point but Dr. Paul Sullins does an excellent job in his article here: http://www.dailywire.com...

While the first amendment does state it shall not make laws to respect an establishment of religion, it does not take away from the fact that this nation was founded a Protestant Christian nation. On the other hand I agree that my point is flawed on how we should make laws according to the Bible. The first amendment does however allow the free exercise of religion. Cases like Kim Davis or the Giffords show that the government favored at least half of that first amendment in those cases. Kim Davis was harassed and jailed for exercising her religion while the Giffords were fined thousands for doing the same. Legalizing gay marriage seems to hurt the first amendment more and step on top of the constitution in this way as it has caused this and many more problems regarding religion. I would also like to add that many of our laws are still based off of the ten commandments, as well as many more in the Bible. 'Is that against the constitution?' is my question for you.

I disagree with you mentioning that legalizing gay marriage has nothing to do with other countries gaining power or the country failing. I would like to show you this article that shows how taking Bibles and prayer out of school has caused a decline: http://www.cnsnews.com.... How does that relate to gay marriage? It is proof that when God is taken out of school, things get worse. With gay marriage being against God and our country legalizing it, you can see the effects when looking closely. Shootings and bombings have risen drastically in the past decade, unrest between two political parties, groups like feminists and black lives matter doing more harm than good, and a decline in generations. Our country is in a terrible spot right now and gay marriage being legalized, while it may not look bad by itself, just adds to the pile of sins the country has committed.
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by SuperSith89 1 year ago
SuperSith89
@hotsauce2910 Yes, I was going to mention that in my entry just now. I'll leave it out since you know now.
Posted by hotsauce2910 1 year ago
hotsauce2910
Would I be correct in assuming that my rebuttal should be only in regards to round 1 and not your rebuttal?
Posted by SuperSith89 1 year ago
SuperSith89
@John_C-1812 Thanks for your feedback. Posting my refutation to his opening here tonight, but I like where you are coming from with it. Marriage is more a privilege than a right. We have a right to bear arms, but a privilege to marriage. Saying the constitution supports marriage is a long stretch and they ought to have amended it to allow it. At least some states have realized this.
Posted by John_C_1812 1 year ago
John_C_1812
Gay marriage cannot be proven legal. First obstacle is that the use of the word Marriage is plagiarizing a long standing likelihood. Second obstacle is a discrimination law only can be applied if a crimes such as fraud and witness tampering was not being committed. Two men have always been able to enter into contracts as have two woman. It is the act of plagiarizing which begins reluctance of cooperation of people who are asked to be public witnesses.

Marriage is not describing a sexual preference or act. The word gay or lesbian not only ask a witness to understand a sexual act, the words are to describe for a witness a sexual act as well. Binivir or UnosMulier are both terms which attack fraudulent claims of discrimination while providing a Constitutional separation between likelihoods.

A Constitutional separation should have been directed due to the fact that Gay and Lesbian by basic principle both a confession and accusation and therefore are not a condition the likelihood of marriage can separate.
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