The Instigator
animwiafek
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
dorinda.asante
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Should have Socrates drunk the hemlock?

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/27/2013 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 964 times Debate No: 30800
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (0)
Votes (0)

 

animwiafek

Pro

Socrates has become renowned for his contribution to the field of ethics even though he wasn't seen highly of in his days; which did not matter to him. He was not ashamed or scared of what he was pursuing in life; knowing it was likely to bring him to an ultimate end. Socrates made a good choice to drink the Hemlock. First of all, one of his saying was to die honorably or justfully than to live unjustly. So refusing to drink the hemlock will mean automatically going against his words.
Moreover, he had the chance to flee Athens if he felt their laws were unjust but he didn't; so by choosing not to leave Athens he agreed to be under the city law. I also agree with him that, we have all not experience death before so it will make no sense to fear what we don"t know; so by not drinking the hemlock will make no sense if he really wants to prove a point. We might have different reasons if he should have or shouldn't have drunk the hemlock; but the bottom line is he stood his grounds.
dorinda.asante

Con

Socrates should not have drunk the hemlock. Men are supposed to be the head of a family; they are supposed to be the glue that keeps family together and when that is no longer there a family is often left with a hole that can never be filled. As a husband and a father, Socrates drinking the hemlock and causing his untimely death was cowardly. He left behind his wife and his children; his family was left with the pain of his coward act.
Kofi stated in his argument that Socrates felt that the laws of Athens were not unjust that is why he chose not to leave Athens; this statement is not true because Socrates believed the laws were unjust. He was able to prove Meletus and the court by asking them what justice law was, in which Meletus said justice was doing right in the interest in the stronger party. Since Meletus and all his fellow leaders are not perfect and have done wrong before in their life proves that they are not the stronger party. This then makes their laws unjust, which Socrates" knew but wanted them to know whether they knew it too. Although he knew the laws were unjust he still wanted to be true to it because he had fought to uphold those laws. As a citizen of Athens and he wanted to obey the law whether he agreed with it or not.
Debate Round No. 1
animwiafek

Pro

First of all, I never said Socrates felt or believed Athens laws were not unjust as you said; you might have misunderstood me. I will give you an example to help you understand what I was trying to say. You are now currently a student of William Paterson University, you have an option to transfer to any school of your choice but you chose to attend this school; so you adhere to the laws of the school weather you like it or not. Failure to do this means going against the schools laws and you will be disciplined for it. Dorinda, I can"t believe you call Socrates a coward; maybe you don"t know what he stood for. If Socrates was to be alive; I believe he will tell you that a man who is good for anything ought not to calculate the chance of living or dying; he ought only to consider whether in doing anything he is doing right or wrong or acting a good man or of a bad man. He wasn't much concerned about anything but doing what he felt was right and not even the idea of family could stop him.
dorinda.asante

Con

This is exactly what you stated, "Moreover, he had the chance to flee Athens if he felt their laws were unjust but he didn't;" Saying this immediately lead me to conclude that the laws of Athens were just and that is why Socrates" decided to stay. You also prove my point of Socrates" being a coward by saying, "He wasn't much concerned about anything but doing what he felt was right and not even the idea of family could stop him." You are contradiciting yourself in the sense that Socartes wants to do the right thing in some area but not in others. How can a man who wants to be so righteous forget to do the simple thing of doing good towards his family. For Socrates" it was all about him, not only was he a coward he was selfish.
Socrates" was so fascinated on being courageous that it caused him his life. A man is supposed to be there for his family no matter what, instead of trying to escape his death he chose to die to prove to the world that he is a no body and is not afraid of dying. He should have fled Athens and went to a different location, going to a different place would have proven to all of Athens that he was not teaching unorthodox teaching of the gods and did not care if any one believed him or not. Choosing to die proved the court and his enemies that he was breaking the law and deserved to die. His enemies most likely did not care whether he proved the court wrong before his death. All they probably cared about was that he was found guilty of unorthodox teaching of the gods and was killed for it. The court could have twisted what happened in the court room and disgrace his name afterwards. Socartes in the court room showed all the accusations against him being false. First he proved that he was not breaking the law and that he did believe in god because Meletus acknowledged the fact that he had a demigod following him around (Plato, Par. 21). He won his case but was not alive to say his part of the story. He made his accusers drive him to his grave and at the end his death proved nothing to them other than him just being another ghost.
Debate Round No. 2
animwiafek

Pro

Dorinda, what I said does not prove the point of him being a coward; but to tell you he stood his grounds to pursue what he taught was right regardless. And I am not contradicting myself in anyway; you just not understanding what I am trying to say. So far you haven"t really hit the nail to the head. Socrates would have rather been a coward if he refused to drink the hemlock; he said and I quote again to remind you "we have all not experience death before so it will make no sense to fear what we don"t know; and he finally had a chance to prove he doesnt fear death. Fleeing Athens to escape death makes him a coward. If you tell me you are going to slap me when you see me and you cant do it when you see me then you a coward; not when you do it. You could call Socrates many things or names but not a coward. And this is the definition of a coward; is a person who lacks the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things. I conclude my debate in sopport of the actions of Socrates
dorinda.asante

Con

What you said does show Socrates" was a coward, he was a coward for dying and leaving his family to face the world alone and he was a coward for not listening to his wife when she tried to stop him from killing himself. You also had stated that, "he stood his grounds to pursue what he taught was right regardless. Just because one think something is right does not make it right. If that was the case serial killers would be right since killing seems right to them. And you are right about me not understanding what you are saying because I am only going by what you writing, I am not in your head to know what you think.
Another statement that you made was that, "we have all not experience death before so it will make no sense to fear what we don"t know." First, no one has experience death before since no one has woken up from the dead before. Second, just because people do not know how death feels like does not mean people cannot feel how they feel. As long as a person feels how he or she feels death then becomes real to the individual, is just like racism. Even though there is no such thing as race, race still exists in people"s mind, so the idea of race is still real. Before one can become fearless of death he or she has to acknowledge that death indeed is fearful and try to overcome that fear which then will result in death being fearless. Finally, if you truly think that Socrates" is fearless of death then why did he not kill himself when he came to that conclusion. He kept living after he realized that death is not to be fearful of. The real reason why Socrates" was willing to die after his court hearing was because he was old, he knew he had lived a long life and had done many things in his lifetime. Had he being young he most likely would have hesitated in killing himself. Socrates" left behind his wife and sons, his family was left to face the world afterwards. A world that believed he was killed for being guilty; one could only imagine the torment they went through after his death. He should have considered them more before he decided to drink the hemlock.
Debate Round No. 3
No comments have been posted on this debate.
No votes have been placed for this debate.