The Instigator
HeavenlyPanda
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
SJM
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Should homework be banned?

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/20/2016 Category: Education
Updated: 5 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 686 times Debate No: 92920
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
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HeavenlyPanda

Con

Round 1-Debate
Round 2-Debate
Round 3-Debate
Round 4-Debate
Round 5-Debate

Homework should not be banned because it is necessary.
SJM

Pro

Even though it says round 1 debate, I'm guessing it was suppose to say acceptance considering it was only one line. But I would urge voters to pay attention to the fact that my opponent has said homework is "necessary".
Debate Round No. 1
HeavenlyPanda

Con

People don't learn a musical instrument just by going to their music lessons. A lesson can only do so much. It takes daily practice and dedication to become great a musical instrument. And just like music, school takes practice and dedication to become good at. Homework is a way to practice what you have learned at school and it teaches kids skills that they can use later on in life.

Do you remember the 9/11 attack? Or how the Titanic sank? If yes, then ask yourself if you remember what you ate six days ago for dinner. Do you remember? If no, that is because the memory of eating dinner has been deemed by your brain as only temporary memory, not long term memory. You would think that remembering something that happened less than a week ago would be easier to remember than something that happened five years ago but that's not the case. 9/11 is something that you remember because people have taken measures to remember it by talking about it or visiting the memorial, etc. People don't talk about the dinner you ate six days ago because they probably forgot it too. If you don't repeatedly remind yourself of what you ate then you will forget it. This applies to academics. Homework helps to remind students of what they learned.
https://blog.mytuition.nz...

Secondly, homework teaches students valuable skills and work ethics. It teaches them how to manage their time well which is a very useful skill plus it builds up a habit of working. Going to school is a habit. You wake up on a weekday and get ready to go to school. You then go to school and work. Yet it seems that actually working is not a habit. That is unfortunate because good work ethic is very useful in a working environment. Organization, focus, initiative, etc, are all thing that homework helps develop and if students never practiced those, it would be a lot harder to develop good habits.

Thirdly studies show that homework benefits students. There should be at the very most only two hours of homework for students. Homework benefits students by allowing them to see if they really are getting the material taught to them at school or if they need to ask a teacher for help. Homework also prepares students for tests and exams. Currently homework is not something that a school can force a student to do. But for example, say a student in high school grade 9 math did no homework. They would coast along and then cram before every test and the final exam and after that they would forget everything. Then grade 10 math would come along and teachers would expect students to remember what they learned in grade 9. The student would struggle to keep up with the class and the same routine would repeat. Cramming before tests and the final exam. Then the student would get to grade 11 math which is split up into different classes and the same routine would repeat itself. There's grade 12 after that, and after that there"s university. How long do you think the student would survive?

Finally the definition of homework is "school work that a student is required to do at home". The definition for ban is "officially or legally prohibit". This means that if homework was banned, doing homework would be illegal. That means that all work at school would have to be done at school. That would create a lot of stress for students because now they are restricted to only being able to work at school. Banning homework will not stop teachers from assigning work. Banning homework will just make work very stressful considering that you now have a very early deadline to get it in.
SJM

Pro

My opponent starts of by saying that you don"t learn a musical instrument by just going to lessons, but that you HAVE to do homework to learn how to play it, which is false. I will put it like this, if you"re 15 and you go to musical lessons for the rest of your life until you"re 90, does anyone really believe that person wouldn"t be able to learn that instrument? No right? So based off of that, we know that someone doesn"t need homework to learn something. If you don"t learn how to do something during the lessons, then what are they doing if they aren"t teaching you? A lesson can do just as much as homework. Now my opponent says that it takes daily practice, but that practice should be done of their own will. If they want to work then let them, but if they decide not to, it"s not the teacher"s right to say that the student should have enough time to do it, or force the student to do it when something could be going on with them.

Now my opponent essentially brings up how people need homework to remember the things they are taught during lessons, but my opponent is assuming that they will actually do it themselves, to a degree where they actually think about it. Because it they just do it without interest then they will forget it, but if they take interest in it, then they can learn more about the subject without having to way others down by not banning homework. If they like the subject, then good, but they should learn about it without having to make the teacher have to give homework to everyone. And my opponent"s logic is that we don"t remember what we eat everyday because we don"t remind ourselves of what we ate, but homework doesn"t necessarily remind someone because most likely homework isn"t given to the point where they give homework on the same topic every single day which would instill into their minds. But if it"s given twice a week, then they probably wouldn"t remember it.

Next my opponent claims that teaches better work ethics because it teaches them to manage their time well, which is my opponent assuming that they do it when they should, or that they have to manage their time, or that they do it themselves. Which nowadays I would say is not the case. And I would actually say it creates a worse work ethic, because these students in elementary to high school, try to find the easy way out to not do homework. They find it interfering with something else, or they have something else that is priority. And because they have something bigger to deal with, they are required to put the bigger problem aside, or deal with the low grade which would cause even bigger problems (stress from family). They start to do homework incorrectly and then they form bad habits which are hard to break.

Students have the right to learn and not to learn, and by forcing them to go to school, they have lost some of it. But should not let it go further by making them do even more work against their will if they don"t want to. And it basically is against their will because if not they get punishment not just from teachers. I"m not saying that we should not let students review at home which would have the same effect, but just not make it how it is in the status quo. If that student wants to learn, then they will review willingly, but if they don"t, then let them be.

Then my opponent says that I"m proposing that doing homework should be prohibited, no, the resolution says that homework should be banned as in giving homework. The resolution had a very clear context because no one is going to argue that homework should not be done if they want to do it. Then my opponent makes an absurd point by saying that they will have less time to do assigned work. If homework is banned, then the other type of assigned work would be classwork and in that case it would be the same as any other class work. Is not like they will be assigning homework that"s due at the same time as homework but without the time at home. And even so it would not necessarily be called homework if they do assigned work during class at school, at home, because the definition states that homework is work that is required to do at home, not work that could be done at home. The classwork isn"t required to do at home if homework is banned.

"Homework can be very stressful. Having that much stress at this young age is not good. Some students are not getting the rest that is needed. Stress is unhealthy and leads to a lot of health issues. Not to mention the stress the parents have to endure when dealing with getting their kids to sporting events, band concerts, and plays. There is simply not enough time in a day for a full day of school and a full night of homework."

Sources- http://assignmentsdone.com...
Debate Round No. 2
HeavenlyPanda

Con

Firstly, my opponent first paragraph states that you could learn to play the piano without having to practice. But how long do you really think that would take? On average unless you're rushing, a pianist should take a year and no more than a year on each grade of piano until you reach grade eight or nine. Then a pianist would probably take two years or more. Now imagine that you are a pianist in grade eight piano wanting to take the exam. To do that you need to learn five songs and you should probably memorize three of them. Then you need to learn 20 different scales, both harmonic and melodic and staccato and legato. Then for each of those twenty scales you should know the arpeggios, dominant sevenths, diminished sevenths and for both the dominant and diminished you have to learn inversions. There's an audio part to the exam and a sight reading part as well. All in all that"s about 150 technical things that you have to learn as well as five songs, three of which you should memorize or else you get marks taken off.

The average pianist should probably have a lesson a week and practice the rest of the week every day to prepare for the exam. If it took a year to prepare for the exam, my opponents theory that you don"t have to practice would take about seven years to prepare for your exam or if you wanted a lesson every day the average piano lesson costs 30$ for a 30 minute lesson. On average a grade 8 pianist should practice an hour every day. That would mean that it would cost you $21,900. That"s enough to buy a Honda Civic. As I said before lessons can only do so much. Who on earth would want to spend that much time or money just to graduate grade eight piano which is probably the equivalent of grade 11 Calculus. Imagine doing grade 11 calculus for seven years and then grade twelve calculus for even more. If you never did any homework, maybe it won't affect you in elementary school but without the good habits of doing homework you're bound to get a big slap in the face when you reach high school let alone if you reach college or university without doing homework.

As to my opponent's second paragraph, homework in elementary school may be a mindless task that's easy to perform but homework in high school, college and university is anything but mindless. Homework in high school is given daily. Math is a good example of this. In an average math class you are bound to get at least one hour of homework every weekday. If a school is semestered then there will probably be a unit test every week or two and the easiest way to study for those tests are by doing your homework. This example proves that homework helps people remember because they use it to study.

My opponent's third paragraph, it claims that students actually develop a worse work ethic because of homework. It claims that students usually try and find the easy way out of doing homework which just comes to show how lazy students are nowadays. How on earth will students work 8 hour shifts at one of their future jobs (if they actually get any) if they can't even sit down to do one hour of work? The fact is, homework is not the cause of students lazy work ethics. It's the lack of discipline in school that allow kids to be able to coast along without doing any real work. The stress related to homework is because student have not learned to manage their time well enough and now the workload has caught up to them.

As to my opponents fourth paragraph, American students have no idea how privileged they are. And since they have no idea, it has brought up generation after generation that think they are entitled to everything. If you want to learn you have to work to do it, which unfortunately most students of the west have not learned yet. Have you ever been to another country? If no then you should arrange to go. Kids in America complain that it take four minute just to walk to the bus stop but kids in Haiti don't even complain when they have to walk kilometers to get to school. Kids in America complain that it's too hard to find a job. You're up against 318.9 million people in the US. In China you would be up against 1.357 billion people who actually do their homework and are exceptionally smart. In America students complain about how long their day is at school. Go to France. Their school hours start at 8 a.m. and end at 4 p.m. Yes students have the right to education, but with that right comes responsibility.

Students already have the choice on whether they want to go to school or not. They can either decide to go to school for that year or they can choose to stay home and play video games or whatever. It pretty logical though what choice students should pick. Do you want a life that doesn"t involve living in your parents basement playing video games or not? It's not fair to those who actually want a good job to be dragged back from their learning because half the class didn't show up because they didn't feel like learning that day. Also students don't have to complete their homework. A person could go through a whole semester of math and never do any homework. That doesn't mean that he/she would probably do well but not doing homework is an option. The sad thing is that homework has gotten a bad name because there are more lazy students here there are hard working. All the lazy students have complained for so long that homework is such a hassle that the school board has finally started believing it themselves. Next thing you know, students will be requesting that Mondays and Fridays should be part of the weekend because weekdays at school are too long. Learning is a privilege people. If only we could take it away from students of the west, then they would finally see realize how important learning is.

In my opponents fifth paragraph he/she states that work at class done at home is not homework. Well if that is true, then that means that the average student is doing work at home that is not required at school which completely contradicts my opponents third paragraph where it says that students usually don't do their homework. The only reason a student then would do work at home was if it were due the next day which means that technically that is homework.

A friend of mine once had to do an art portfolio that had four pieces of art that were all the same pictures done in different styles. It had to be done in class and only in class because there could be cheating if it were done at home. This caused a lot of stress on her and most of her classmates because they did not have the reassurance that if they didn't complete it on time they could do it at home. That is living proof that homework should not be banned. How on earth are you suppose to complete a lab report for your grade twelve lab when you can work on it over the weekend and you haven't finished it at school?

As for homework causing stress, that's not necessarily true. The real stress for a student comes with the expectancy of always doing well. Students are always expected to do well by their parents and it's because of the parents pressure that students feel stressed. When a parent sees potential in a child they will pressure the child to do well again and again. Soon enough a little voice in the child's head is telling them they have to do whatever it takes to be at the top of their class and that includes doing homework. Since the parents don't want to take the blame of why their kids are stressed, homework suddenly turns into the scapegoat for all the problems of a student.
SJM

Pro

My opponent uses a straw man by saying I said you didn"t have to practice to learn piano, but that"s not at all what I said. I said you don"t need to do homework to learn piano. Work that is required to do at home. By my opponent"s definition, if they give out optional work to do at home, then it isn"t banned. I don"t know how this turned into a piano education session, but I get the concept and will still address it. The concept behind my opponent"s point is that, you need homework to prepare for exams, and to learn to do things faster. As I have said, if they truly cared about their education, or in some cases if they have time, they would do it. But it shouldn"t be required because teachers can"t possibly know the situations going on in the student"s head and in their surroundings. If someone wants to get good grades and do good on exams, they can study at home. My opponent makes it sound like I"m proposing that you can"t study, review, or do optional work at home. But I specifically say that we should ban required work at home. Students can easily review and study and it will have the same effect, and it removes the required stress.

My opponent later states that students are given about an hour of homework to do everyday but has no evidence to back that up. So I will take that as an anecdotal and offer my own anecdotal evidence which is I didn"t get that much homework, and it was a very mindless task most of the time. And con says that homework is the easiest way to study, but it"s just as easy as optional work given to do at home, and other forms of study and reviewing notes.

Then my opponents say that because I said students will learn bad work ethics from homework, that it shows that they are lazy. No, the reason may not be because they are lazy and my opponent attempts to generalize the students by saying this and that they don"t know how to manage time when in reality, there are people who have bigger priorities because they are way more important. There is stress that causes students to fall into stages where they can even get suicidal. And my opponent claims they don"t know how to manage their time and that"s where the stress is coming from. Not from their environment or from their mind, but from the fact that they don"t know how to manage their time. And people aren"t required to work at jobs, so if they go it"s at their will, which is the difference between homework and jobs. Also they get paid for working, and they may like the job.

Next my opponent goes on to say "If you want to learn you have to work to do it, which unfortunately most students of the west have not learned yet." This is EXACTLY my point when I say if they want to learn, they will work for it. But if they don"t then who are we to force them. Now, this notion gets brought up a lot where people say, you should do something because other people can"t do them which makes no sense. For example telling a kid to eat their vegetables because other people don"t have food to eat. Why is someone to do something they don"t want to do, because other people don"t have the option to do it? By this logic anyone buying more food than is necessary to live is a bad person.

To my opponent"s next point. Honestly we can"t have basements in Houston, but if you"re asking me if I would rather live in my room and play games for the rest of my life, then heck yea. And about the school requirement, "Compulsory education laws require children to attend a public or state-accredited private school for a certain period of time" My opponent then says that not doing homework is an option, but how is it an option if it"s required? My opponent has therefore contradicted herself. Then my opponent makes the slippery slope fallacy where she states that if they start asking for no homework, then they will ask for no school, then no jobs, and then they will request that they shouldn"t have to wake up. The problem with this argument is that it creates a lot of assumptions. This is a common thing with the marijuana argument. And when my opponent says that homework is given a bad name because of lazy students, well I think it"s because people have more important things and don"t have enough time, and there is a lot of stress. Not just simply, oh I have 9 hours to do nothing, but I definitely don"t want to do homework. And my opponent keeps saying that learning is a privilege, but it only is a privilege if the person wants it, if they don"t then it"s something that they are forced to do which causes suffering.

Later on con says that I stated that classwork done at home is not homework. I ACTUALLY said that if someone takes classwork home and works on it, it"s not homework. I also never said that students never do their homework, but that they do it incorrectly. And this point doesn"t even matter if I concede, which I don"t, because in the end it would mean most of the things you said is gone since it all comes down to whether we are forcing them to do homework. Which by definition is what you are proposing. Then my opponent says "The only reason a student then would do work at home was if it were due the next day which means that technically that is homework." Voters please don"t vote for con on this point, this is essentially saying everyone does their homework the day before it"s due, and not before. Thus meaning everyone is a procrastinator.

Then my opponent makes the same point, which my response was that banning homework does not mean you can"t do work at home. This example that was given is different because my opponent is assuming because homework is banned, that the teachers will give them tighter due dates, which is not true. The intent of the teacher was to make it that strict which would have been done with or without homework being banned. The things is, without homework, they would have to give appropriate due dates, or they will be reported by students or the higher staff will notice patterns.

Lastly, my opponent makes the point that it"s not actually homework that is stressing them, but that it"s expectations. But according to con it has nothing to do with homework but all to do with parents. Actually I was stressed out by some homework because of the difficulty of it (math, I hated math), my parents didn"t care at all about my grades. I have proven homework causes stress and you have conceded it, but you say it"s because of parents which you fail to support. And even so, this is like saying, you aren"t crying because of your husband beating you, you are crying because you have this mentality where you hate getting beat. Without the homework, the parents wouldn"t be stressing the kids out over homework.
Debate Round No. 3
HeavenlyPanda

Con

In my opponent's first paragraph, it generally states that if students care about their education then they will do homework and that required homework should be banned. Then my opponent implies that not everyone has time to do homework. For an average day of a student they should probably sleep for around 8 hours. Then they wake up and go to school at around 8 a.m. and leave school at 3 p.m. That means that they have 8 hours to complete their homework. Of course they may have after school sports which would take up two hours and dinner which at its most would be one hour. That still means they have seven hours to complete their homework (5 hours for those that play sports). Seven hours is pretty generous. Now what on earth could a student be doing that would take up all that time? The average American watches more than five hours of television a day. The average American spends three hours a week at a mall. The average American plays 12.5 hours of video games a week (6.5 online. 5 with people). The average American spends 4.7 hours a day on their phone. All in all the average American spends more than one third of their day looking at a screen. That seems like a lot of time spent being unproductive. So actually it seems like students do have time to complete their homework. Studying is only good for so long until your brain refuses to take in any more and sports on average take only two hours. So either the average American is secretly doing something that is a greater priority or like the stats say, they're staring at a screen. Is watching Say Yes to the Dress really more important than trying to learn what's being taught to you?

As to my opponent's second paragraph, I researched and found out that high school students are given about 6 hours of homework per week. And most students don't know how to study. Most students think that studying is what you do before a test when actually you should be studying everyday. But wait, doesn't that sound a lot like homework? Studying is technically homework without the required part, and look how great students are doing at it. Most don't even know how to do it and the others don't even bother to do it. For studying you have to write your own notes, create your own study sheet, etc. For homework you get a piece of paper and you answer the questions on it. Which sounds easier?

My opponent's third paragraph states that students have bigger priorities than doing homework. Like what? Watching tv? What on earth is this "way more important priority" that my opponent speaks of throughout his/her debate? Let me guess. Tv? Phone? Computer? Video game? Because according to statistics people spend 11 of their 18 waking hours staring at a screen. And I do generalize students as being lazy. I truly feel sorry for those who actually work hard or play a sport because even though they work hard they are still branded as lazy. As for the stressed part, like I said before, students think that they'll just magically be able to manage their time when they reach university or college without any practice. It doesn"t work that way and it"s a big shocker to them all of a sudden when they realize that.

Stress is caused by situations and circumstances. Not by an actual object. That means that learning to manage your time is actually important when preventing stress. If you learn to manage your time well you won"t get a big pile up of work to do which will reduce your stress. Therefore homework is not the cause of stress.
As to my opponents fourth paragraph, nobody wants to work. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't. Technically if my opponent had it his/her way we would have a world that had no farmers to make food because who really wants to be farming food while everyone else is relaxing at some spa getting a massage. Oh wait, spas actually won't be open unfortunately because who really wants to be massaging others when they could be massaged themselves. That would mean that everyone is technically sitting at home in the dark because of course there's no electricity because who really wants to work at the power plant. Unfortunately soon people would start dying of starvation considering that nobodies generating food. You see where this is going? Just because people don't want to (or do want to) do something doesn't mean that they should always get their way. Just because Hitler wanted to kill all the jews does not mean that we should let him. (I'm glad we didn't)

In my opponents fifth paragraph I will clear up some confusion. The definition of homework is "schoolwork that a student is required to do at home." Required is not used as in "homework is required to be done" but used as "it is required to do at home". Then my opponent again refers to the "way more important priority" yet does not elaborate on that. Also my opponent's opinion that people have more important stuff to do does not stand as an actually point. I too could think that people don't have a lot of important stuff to do in their lives. As for "oh I have 9 hours to do nothing, but I definitely don"t want to do homework". That is exactly what it is. 85-95% of students have a problem with procrastination.
http://brandongaille.com...
And learning is a privilege. It is not something forced on you because you can by law have the right to refuse work just like you have the right to refuse to do homework. Unfortunately learning is a privilege that is being abused.

In my opponents sixth paragraph it says "if someone takes classwork home and works on it, it"s not homework." This goes against everything my opponent said in his/her fourth paragraph. Hypothetically in the world where nobody does anything all because they don't want to, why on earth would a student take home classwork on their own free will? Because its due. Which means like I said before, that it is homework.

Also if a student is doing something incorrectly how are they suppose to know if they aren't able to test if their doing it incorrectly. A class is suppose to teach you how to do something. Homework is suppose to test if you know how to do it properly which is why we need homework. And we are not forcing student to do homework. We actually aren't forcing students to go to school. When you woke up at the beginning of September did some otherworldly force, force you to go to school? No, you chose to yourself. Just like doing homework is a choice you make yourself. Just like anything you do is a choice you make yourself. So when it really comes down to it all, nobody is forcing a student to do homework or go to school. They're choosing to do it themselves.

As to everyone being a procrastinator. I am not trying to insult everybody but the truth is, everyone is a procrastinator. To deny that is to make yourself a liar as well. Just like for example claiming that people are hypocrites. In turn if you do that, that probably makes you a hypocrite as well.

In my opponents seventh paragraph he/she states that banning homework will not reduce the amount of time you have to complete schoolwork. Say a teacher assigns an assignment to be due on Monday and it's already Friday and you haven't completed it but you're not allowed to take it home. Suddenly you only have one class left to complete it rather than a whole weekend left to complete it. How has that not reduced the amount of time you have to complete the assignment?

Also in my opponent's last paragraph, he/she is complaining about how hard homework is. That completely contradicts his/her second paragraph which says that homework is a mindless task. Also did you go in for help? Homework is there not only for you to practice what you've learned but to also see whether you're understanding what you're being taught. If you don't go in for help then you"re not learning the material properly.

Finally it is the parent that causes the stress. Stress is caused by situations and circumstances as I said before. A parent will cause stress because they want their child to succeed. Have you ever heard of a tiger mother? It is a mother that puts such unrealistic expectations on their child to do well. An A- is unacceptable to a tiger mother. How much pressure do you think would be on the child? Every parent who wants their kid to do well is technically kind of like a tiger mother. It's not because of the homework that the parent is stressing the child. It is because of the parent wanting the child to do well that the child does homework. Yet somehow everything is blamed on the homework when the actual source of the stress is the parent.
http://www.scmp.com...
SJM

Pro

My opponent says that i"m implying that not everyone has time, but what I"m actually saying is that if someone feels that their homework is more important than their other priorities, than they will do it. And I"m not saying that everyone doesn"t have the time. We shouldn"t dictate how their priorities should be ordered. Now let"s say that all the stats she gives are true, which I would say is not because I know people who play sports that don"t finish until 10 pm. Shouldn"t we account for the few? My opponent wants to make it so that the people who do have time, this has no effect on, and those who don"t have time face repercussions. Then con provides a really flawed stat, because the sample size encompasses AMERICANS, not only students, but just people, and not only that, but per week could be any time during the summer(no school). Now my opponent says the student then has 7 hours left and tries to frame the argument where the only other option someone has is to be unproductive, but like I have said, people could be doing something more productive and more important, such as attending a sick relative. And my opponent also assumes that what they're watching on tv is unproductive, and that their homework is actually productive.

My proposal makes it so those who want to do something similar to homework, get optional work at home, and those who can"t or don"t have the opportunity to, aren"t required to. And my opponent says that students don"t know what studying is because they think it"s studying the day before a test. Well this clearly shows that pro doesn"t know what study means so I will provide it. "The activity or process of learning about something by reading, memorizing facts, attending school, etc."So this act which con says is not studying, is studying. Therefore most students do know how to study. Then my opponent assumes that the homework is effective as studying, and that the students do it properly. Then my opponent says that you have to do things like write your own notes and create your own study sheet as opposed to getting a paper with questions on it, so therefore students should have to pick the easier one if they want to learn. But doesn"t con"s whole case want to make sure students learn the best they can? Which is letting students write out their own notes so that they remember it better than just answering questions that may not even meet the bar. Which student do you think learns more? The one that writes her own flashcards and then uses them to memorize, or the one that answers the questions on a paper. Con also says that studying is technically homework without the required part, but con can"t say that it"s homework because an essential attribute that makes homework, homework, is that it"s required.

Con"s next point is that the priorities students have over their homework are things that are unproductive. But let"s see what examples she provides us with, tv, phone, computer, video games, and then brings up a statistic about people bring on their screen. Now my opponent"s biggest flaw is that she assumes that these hours are being unproductive just because they are on the screen. For example, I use my macbook a lot to research and study things, but my opponent says that since it"s on a screen it"s unproductive. She says tv, well what if I"m watching a documentary? And lastly phone, what if i"m trying to comfort a friend? Isn"t that more important than doing homework? Someone"s in need of someone to help them with their situation, but they can"t because they have required work to do. And again in the study, it says people not students. Also, I will not provide evidence but if my opponent chooses to disagree with me on this then oh well, but I would say majority of the student body participates in sports or some type of club. Then con says that students will think they can magically learn to manage their time when their in college, but what do you need to learn so you could manage your time? All you have to do is set up time periods. And it"s not like managing time with homework is the only way someone can manage time. Someone could also learn how to manage their time with setting study periods, which under my proposal is allowed.

Then my opponent makes the point that stress is caused by situations and circumstances, not by a real object. But my point is that objects can put you into these situations and circumstances, which means that these object had caused your stress. So actually, removing the object, homework, would remove that situation and circumstance, while if you managed your time, the homework itself could still cause you stress because it puts you into a situation of confusion. Therefore homework is a cause of stress. Then con goes on to misinterpret what I said in my fourth paragraph about we shouldn"t force someone to work. What this point means is that if they don"t work we shouldn"t have to force them (slavery), but this doesn"t mean that they won"t have consequences due to it. If they don"t want the things that come from learning then we shouldn't force them to partake in it, but if they do want things that come learning without learning, then that"s different. As long as there are people who want to live, then there will be workers, but if they don"t want to live, then we don"t force them to work.

Then my opponent states that there is a confusion between the definition of homework because I say "work that is required to be done", but she says it"s "work required to be done at home", which makes my point still stand because if it"s required to do anywhere, it"s still required to be done. For example, if I tell someone they have to sell bacon on the street, doesn"t matter if it"s on the street, it has to be done. And my opponent states that I do not elaborate on what more important priority is, it should be obvious that some students have to work at home or some job because they are poor, or do sports, or attend a sick relative. Also my opponent says " I too could think that people don't have a lot of important stuff to do in their lives.",so she is basically trying to tell people what"s more important for them, instead of the student knowing what"s more important to them. But in reality it"s subjective to the student, and they decided what"s more important in their life. Next my opponent brings up flawed study that says 85% to 95% of students have a problem with procrastination, but that doesn"t really mean they are procrastinators, nor that they procrastinate constantly. Therefore this survey is very vague.

Then my opponent states that learning is privilege, because it"s not something forced on you. First, something isn"t a privilege just because it isn"t forced. Second, if it isn"t forced it isn"t required, thus it isn"t homework. Third, you can not claim something is a privilege for someone if they don"t like it.

Later on con says that I contradict when I said "if someone takes classwork home and works on it, it"s not homework.", which I don"t see how. All my opponent says is that if in a world in which no one does nothing ( which I have already talked about), and that if something is due the next day it"s homework, which is false. If someone has classwork and doesn"t finish it during class and decides to take it home, it isn"t required since they could refuse to do it, which goes against my opponent"s definition.

Then my opponent states that students can"t know if they aren"t studying incorrectly without doing homework and seeing their test scores. My opponent again neglects optional homework, and neglects studying and reviewing. Something that is optional and would let someone prioritize. Hypothetically if someone knows the information, and the teacher is forcing homework upon them, then it's a waste of time. Studying has the same effects of homework, and probably even better considering then can do it on their own time, and it"s not just questions on a paper. "And we are not forcing student to do homework" This completely contradicts the definition of homework which states that it is required. If we aren"t forced to do homework then you can"t call it homework. Required- "to make it necessary for someone to do something."
http://www.merriam-webster.com...

Next point my opponent gives is that everyone is a procrastinator. No evidence, just straight out says that everyone is a procrastinator and says it"s truth. Something isn"t truth just because someone says it is, there has to be reasoning behind it and this point lacks it.

Now to con"s next point, she states that it"s reduced time because you haven't completed the schoolwork in class, and you can"t take it home. First, I have explained why it"s not considered homework if you just take classwork home in these points. Secondly, it isn"t required to be done at home, therefore it"s not homework. And your point is flawed because you"re essentially saying, what if something was due money and this person procrastinated all the way till friday. This is not proof of reduced time.

Then my opponent goes on to make the point that I when I said homework COULD be hard, that it completely contradicted my statement when I said "it was a very mindless task most of the time.", where I made sure to put most of the time. It of course wasn"t always hard or always easy. But for some it could be hard all the time and we should force people to do something that we don"t we don"t even know would help that person compared to this person"s alternatives. Maybe this student knows a better study technique, but only has time to do one or the other, but since this person has to do homework, this person can"t study. Then con assumes someone needs homework to go talk to the teacher, essentially trying to make it seem class time is useless.
Lastly, my opponent makes an argument when saying that homework does not cause stress because parents cause MORE stress. Something causing more stress does not remove the stress
Debate Round No. 4
HeavenlyPanda

Con

Firstly, implying that homework should be banned is dictating other people"s priorities. At least if homework wasn"t banned students would have the option to do it or not. All the stats that are given are true and even if you did know someone who"s sport started at the end of school and ended at 10 p.m., they are in a minority. I could say that I know that sports usually last two hours considering I"ve played on many school teams. Also banning homework should be to please the majority. If the majority is not pleased with the choice then homework should not be banned. It is unfortunate for those who are in the minority though. As for the stats being all about America, in Europe and most countries it is less watching TV but almost the same for looking at a screen for 11 of your 18 hours of waking. Also homework is more productive compared with watching TV, looking at your phone, playing video games. At least with homework you are learning something. With a documentary, unless you watched it over and over you would eventually forget it.

Secondly, homework is exactly like my opponent said in his/her second paragraph nowadays. "those who want to do something similar to homework, get optional work at home, and those who can't or don't have the opportunity to, aren't required to." Maybe back in the 1900"s homework was forced to be complete or else you"d get a beating with a ruler stick but nowadays teachers are not allowed to hit students. Students do not get sent to the principal's office for not completing their math homework.

Studying refers to the time students spend alone to go over what they"ve learned in class. Here is the real definition of studying "devote time and attention to acquiring knowledge on (an academic subject), especially by means of books." The way to actually study is to study everyday at the same time. And like I said before 85%-95% of students have a procrastination problem. So hypothetically in the world where everyone does only what they want to do, considering that homework is obviously too stressful, that also means that nobody would study either. Think about it, as my opponent pointed out, homework is obviously easier than studying. My opponent also pointed out that most students try to get out of doing homework too back in the 2 round. So how likely is it that students who 85%-95% have a procrastination problem, will study when it obviously takes a lot more work than homework? So actually most students just don"t study properly. Cramming before a test or exam is not the proper way to study. That"s why it"s called cramming and not studying which is why homework is useful because it is an easier way of reviewing what you"ve learned in class.

11 out of 18 waking hours are spent staring at a screen. And my opponent supposes that every single minute spent staring at the screen is being productive. So updating your Facebook status is productive I guess and so is looking at all the gifs that have been posted. Is texting your friend about how dumb Justin Bieber is productive? Yes helping someone in need is better than doing your homework. But can my opponent really prove that all those 11 hours are being spent productively? Then my opponent assumes that since homework should be allowed, suddenly studying is not. That is not what I proposed and I really don"t know how that got there. I just stated that homework is easier than actually studying.

Thirdly, my opponent makes a point in his/her fourth paragraph that makes no difference. It literally just makes the whole argument about stress go round in circles. An object put in a place causes stress is what my opponent is saying yet that object was put there under a circumstance and the situation that unfolded obviously caused stress. So technically it wasn"t the objects fault, it was the circumstances fault. Homework is given out under a circumstance or situation, therefore homework is not the cause of stress it is the circumstance or situation. If my opponent was right it would technically be like saying the river just appeared there without a source whereas I"m saying that the source is a pool at the top of the river rather than it just magically appearing there. If you let the circumstance or situation get out of hand then you"ll have stress.

Then my opponent goes on to compare kids at school to slavery. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN WHEN I SAY THAT WE ARE ABUSING THE PRIVILEGE OF LEARNING. Learning is a privilege, it is definitely not slavery and to compare it to slavery is highly insulting. There is no way on earth that people are forcing the majority of kids to go to school by gun point. The teachers are not standing over the students with a whip in hand ready to beat the child for doing or getting something wrong. Nor are the kids working from dawn till dusk every single day in an unsafe workplace. Kids don"t just drop off dead in school frequently. The kids that go to school likely aren"t so malnourished that they almost look like a skeleton. The kids aren"t worked to death in school like they are if they were slaves. Kids actually want to be at school because they find it enjoyable. To imply that school is like slavery is to imply that all those child slaves that work to bring us the cloth we need to make our clothes actually want to be there. It like implying that those that work to mine blood diamonds that we use to marry to each other actually enjoy their work. Is being worked to death really all the same as being stressed out for an exam?
http://slaveryfootprint.org...
Read this infographic. You should have been taught in school what slavery really is considering your whole economy was practically built by slaves. It"s not funny to compare something like slavery to education. Slavery is still at large in our world even though you may think it was abolished from the United States.

Fourthly, I too believe that it"s up to the student to decide what is the most important priority. It"s not up to my opponent to decide that, that temporary job lifeguarding or that high school sports game is more important than learning. It"s up to the student to decide what is the top priority. I never stated that students have to do homework instead of whatever else they might be doing. I suggested what students could do and my opponent has exaggerated that.

As to my opponents fifth paragraph, I get that you're trying to say that homework isn"t a privilege but like you said in your fourth paragraph "If they don't want the things that come from learning then we shouldn't force them to partake in it, but if they do want things that come learning without learning, then that's different." Homework is part of school and school is part of learning. If you don"t want to do homework then my opponent has obviously implied that you should quit school.

Then my opponent literally says what I"ve been trying to say. "If someone has classwork and doesn"t finish it during class and decides to take it home, it isn't required since they could refuse to do it, which goes against my opponent's definition." Homework nowadays is not required to be done. Students aren"t punished anymore for not completing their homework nowadays. Yes, that goes against the definition of homework but that is because the definition of homework is outdated.

As to my opponent"s next paragraph, I actually said that students won"t be able to know whether they understand the material taught to them if they aren"t allowed to practise it. Then my opponent contradicts what he/she said in his/her last paragraph by stating that homework is forced upon students implying that they have no option to opt out of it but before stating that students are allowed to opt out of homework if they want to. As to everyone being if you have ever been lazy, indecisive or hesitant then you"ve procrastinated.

Fifthly, in the example I provided the person may have procrastinated or not. Let's say that each class was one hour long. That is five hours to complete whatever it is the person had to complete and yet it"s still not done. Now let's say we took away the ban on homework. That adds eight hours to every day plus the 18 hours on both weekend days. That would mean that instead of only having five hours to complete the assignment, the person actually has 81 hours to complete the assignment. How is 81 hours the same as 5 hours? This is exactly proof of reduced time.

Also my opponent seems to have gone to mighty lengths to explain why classwork at home is not homework. Wouldn"t it just be simpler to allow homework? My opponent did admit that homework can actually be refused which is exactly my point which means that banning homework is completely pointless and just adds a bunch of complications as to what work is allowed to be done at home.

Next my opponent states that homework can be difficult or easy and that it depends on the student. This is exactly what I was trying to say. Homework may be easy for some students but difficult for others. For those that it is difficult, they now realize they might need help with it which means that if they wanted, they could go talk to the teacher. I never implied that classroom time was useless. I said that classroom time was for teaching. Homework is for reviewing. Also my opponent then says that if the student knew a better study technique they wouldn"t have time for it since homework is taking up their time. But like my opponent said before, homework can be refused.

Finally, my opponent has conceded that I am right about stress. Parents do cause stress but then my opponent decided to say that homework causes stress too. But my opponent also said earlier on that homework is a mindless task and that he/she didn"t get much of it. My opponent also said that homework could be refused. So how is something that is mindless and that can be refused be stressful? Like I said before, it is not homework causing the stress. Homework is an object not a situation or circumstance.
SJM

Pro

My opponent starts of by saying I"m dictating other people"s right by banning homework, but con continues to forget that under my proposal such things as studying and reviewing which have the same effect as homework, can still be done. Therefore I"m fulfilling everyone"s priorities by saying if you want to do work at home you can do it, and if you don"t want it then you don"t have to do it. My ban still allows for students to do basically the same thing as homework, without it being required. Then my opponent says her stats are true without even refuting my point that it"s vague study since it only says people and not students. Then my opponent goes to say that sports only take two hours based on her anecdotal evidence which doesn"t mean anything considering I have cancelled it out with my anecdotal evidence. And it"s not only one person, it"s many of the school sport teams, and clubs such as engineering. My opponent has no grounds to say that the people i"m talking about are in the minority. What my opponent lacks is evidence, especially when she says that someone learns more from homework than tv, phones, and even video games, and provides no study that says people are more likely to forget something if they watch it. Con says at least you are learning something which implies that people who don"t do homework aren"t learning something.

My opponent then misuses my line which says "those who want to do something similar to homework, get optional work at home, and those who can't or don't have the opportunity to, aren't required to.", because she takes it as this is how homework currently is, but I say this is how it would be after my ban. Because under my opponent"s definition, they are required to. As for my line states that people won"t be required to.

Later my opponent says that the ACTUAL way to study is by studying everyday at the same time. But even with my opponent's definition of studying, it is not required that someone studies everyday at the same time to acquire knowledge. What she is essentially doing is committing the no true scotsman fallacy, because she states that studying one time is not the true way to study. Then she also brings up her study that shows 85-95% of students have a procrastination problem, while totally neglecting when I said that "procrastination problem" is vague. Someone could literally mean, they hate procrastinating, therefore they don"t do it because they have a problem with it. Someone who isn"t a procrastinator could have a problem with procrastination. Next con brings up that no one would want to work, but again forgets that I said, that this point means that if they don"t work we shouldn"t have to force them, but this doesn"t mean that they won"t have consequences due to it. If they don"t want the things that come from learning then we shouldn't force them to partake in it, but if they do want things that come learning without learning, then that"s different. As long as there are people who want to live, then there will be workers, but if they don"t want to live, then we don"t force them to work. Therefore in this world, there will not be everyone not working. Then con says that people will not study because it"s harder. And yes I agree with, and we shouldn"t force them to. If they want the outcomes out of studying, they will study. I"m not trying to get more people to study as my opponent is, I"m trying to get people to have the right to study if they want to. Therefore her comment doesn"t apply to me, but my point still applies to her. Then my opponent says that cramming before a test is not a proper way to study, which means she concedes that it is studying but improperly.

My opponent then assumes that I assume every time on screen is productive, which I do not say at all. What I say is that my opponent can"t assume that because people spend so much hours on a screen, that means they are unproductive. Therefore her evidence means nothing unless it said 11 hours are spent on screens being unproductive. Then con states that I said studying isn"t allowed if homework is allowed, but what I actually said is that if someone has limited time and either study, or homework, since homework is required, he can only do homework and not study.

Then hilariously my opponent gets all touchy about me comparing slavery to people being forced to learn. The concept behind slavery is forced labor, the concept behind being forced to learn is forced mental labor, it"s not that different. Then my opponent continuously avoids my assertion that something is not a privilege for someone if they don't want it. Voters ignore all her comments about how my comparison is insulting because it has no effect on this debate and is just a waste of words. She then goes on to state people are not forced to do homework at gunpoint. First, it doesn"t have to be at gunpoint, and second, if it isn"t forced it again contradicts the definition of homework. Then she says kids want to be at school because it"s enjoyable, and has no way to back it up. Then starts taking it as if I said slavery was EXACTLY like kids being forced an education. Anyone can see that all I said is that if someone is forced to do something, they are a slave because their freedom is restricted. My opponent makes a foolish mistake by assuming I was talking about african american slavery, when by definition slave means just having restricted freedom.

Then my opponent again neglects her own definition of homework and anybody viewing can see this. She says " I suggested what students could do and my opponent has exaggerated that.", but it"s not what students could do, but what they are required to do. I"m not dictating what are their best priorities, I"m saying that we should not make work required so that the students have more freedom with their time, instead of requiring them to take out time to do homework.

Then my opponent says " Homework is part of school and school is part of learning. If you don"t want to do homework then my opponent has obviously implied that you should quit school.", this means that my opponent has a problem with people not going school. Well if my opponent wants more people to go to school, banning homework is definitely the way to do it. Homework may be what actually fails students.

Then my opponent concedes that her definition of homework is outdated, even though she was the one that provided it. But my opponent gives no valid reason for why it"s outdated. Just because teachers give out something they call homework, doesn"t mean it"s homework, since the students could refuse it. Therefore the definition my opponent has provided still works.

Then my opponent says that people won"t be able to know whether they understand something if they haven"t practiced it, and in response I said homework is not the only way someone can practice material. Then she says I contradicted myself by saying people can opt out of homework, but what I meant by opt out, is that they opt out of doing it correctly. Because doing homework incorrectly may be just as bad as not doing it. Then she states that "if you have ever been lazy, indecisive or hesitant then you"ve procrastinated.", but yet I"m lazy right now and have nothing to do, so how am I procrastinating? I have been indecisive and hesitant, but about things without any due time, so how am I procrastinating? Therefore my opponent"s comment about procrastination is wrong.

See, my opponent continually neglects what I say when I say that work in class can be brought home because it wouldn"t be considered homework. I have to repeatedly bring up the definition of homework because con"s only chance of winning is if the definition is changed, but she hasn"t done so successfully. Therefore the definition still stays as work that is required to do at home. In the example she provided, someone didn"t finish their work during class, so my opponent says that he can"t do it at home because it"s banned. But i"m saying he can do it at home, but it isn"t homework because it isn"t required so that means he could refuse it. Which he could. Therefore it"s not considered as homework.

Then con say that I said homework could be refused, which is not what I said, that"s why I specifically said work at home, not homework. Homework can not be refused, because by definition it"s required. Also it wouldn"t be simpler, as my opponent said, to just allow homework because of all the negative effects I listed due to requiring work to be done, as opposed to someone having the option to do work at home.

My opponent says that homework is the basically the only way someone could know they need help with a topic, but optional work that pretty much looks identical to homework, can be given. Also someone could be studying and find the topic difficult. Also something isn"t required to do at home, if they are able to do it at the library. And class time is used for reviewing and teaching. And lastly, homework can not be refused.

Yes I do concede that parents cause stress, but homework does too. By my opponent"s logic, parents wouldn"t be the cause of stress, but the situation parents put them in would be. Then con says next that I said homework is a mindless and that I didn"t get much out of it This just shows that my opponent did not read what I said. I pointed it out two times that I said most of the time. And my opponent has conceded it varys on the student. And again I don"t know where my opponent gets that I said homework could be refused, because I"m sure I didn"t, the closest thing I said to it is optional homework, but that"s just a buzzword because there is no such thing as optional homework. And my opponent says homework is a object not a circumstance or situation, neglecting that parents too are objects.

Basically my opponent didn't read my arguments, didn't follow her definition, and neglected what could happen under my proposal.
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Sweg123 5 months ago
Sweg123
Nice round structure, very detailed
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