The Instigator
RebelRebelDixieDixie01
Con (against)
Losing
2 Points
The Contender
Mshore
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points

Should illegal aliens be allowed in the U.S.?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Mshore
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/12/2014 Category: Economics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 653 times Debate No: 43857
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (2)

 

RebelRebelDixieDixie01

Con

Illegal aliens are ruining our ecomomy, they are taking our jobs, and they just shouldn't be here! They all need to go back to Mexico or wherever they come from. If the US sent 20,000,000 people into mexico, they'd be yelling just like us!
Mshore

Pro

Hello. Ok I suppose I will respond to your assertions one at a time:

1. "Illegal aliens are ruining our economy". I look forward to your evidence for this. There are serval factors that contribute to the ruin of our economy. Even if I grant that this is somehow true, it is negligible at best compared to the devastating economic impact of central banking, government-corporation partnerships, and imperialism. I would argue that these factors and others are way more significant and deserve our attention much more than immigration policy if our concern is the ruin of the economy.

2. "They are taking our jobs". I assume that by "our jobs" your are referring to jobs that Americans would potentially get were it not for illegal aliens being hired instead. I don't know your political philosophy but mine is one that values freedom. If I am an employer who wants to hire an alien instead of an American, who are you to tell me what I can and can't do? The arrangement under which employees are hired is between employee and employer and no one else.

3. "They just shouldn't be here". I can't imagine there being any kind of meaningful argument here. How do you know where other people should and shouldn't be? All of my ancestors were at one time in other countries, and boy am I glad they immigrated here! Freedom of travel is a natural, basic human right. I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

4. "If the US sent 20,000,000 people into Mexico, they'd be yelling just like us". Surely you can see the irrationality here. I have never heard anyone suggest that Mexico actually sends people here. Obviously these are individuals choosing to move to the United States, not the government of Mexico transporting millions of citizens here.
Debate Round No. 1
RebelRebelDixieDixie01

Con

Ok, i see what you're saying, but another thing you have to think about is overpopulation, if we just keep letting people into this country from anywhere, the whole world is gonna start to come here, then if the wrong president gets in office, he practically would have controll over millions and maybe billions of people, and if they're illegal, then why are they here? Our government should do something about them instead of letting them in. I am a Confederate and most if not all of us including most of Texas and all of the south believe the same thing, even a lot of the north believes in no illegal aliens! If we took a vote of everyone in the US the results would be for no illegal aliens because Texas, Georgia, Mississippi, and Alabama and all of the south would vote in our favor.
Mshore

Pro

I typically like to answer assertions that the opponent writes in order, but I want to address the Confederate comment right off the bat. I really think I can identify with and walk arm in arm with you on some key Confederate principles. Although the term "Confederate" evokes many issues and emotions, on the positive side I love that the citizens of the Confederate states championed freedom! They didn't want to be told what to do by a higher authority (Federal Government), they wanted to live their lives the way they saw fit. While the paradigm this principle existed in was US federalism (Constitution giving Federal Government very few powers, and most everything should be handled by individual states), I think people like us who subscribe to this principle should logically extend this further (towns and cities not having to worry about their state telling them what to do, citizens not having to worry about their local government telling them what to do). Anyway, all that to say I think we have some important things in common that can inform our debate here...

Regarding overpopulation, I don't worry about this for a few reasons. First, have you been to Iowa? There is a ton of space. There is way more space than we often think all over the United States. Someone may argue, "yeah but there aren't cities there! There isn't anywhere to live!". There weren't cities in NYC, LA, Boston, or anywhere else before people built them. Cities will pop up because people will need open space to live. Second, let's say that the entire US became literally overpopulated, like 67,000 people per square mile (NYC). This is a crazy scenario that absolutely wouldn't happen in the foreseeable future, but let's pretend that it did. If things literally became that uncomfortable, people would simply move. This is the story of humanity. None of us really fret about overpopulation in ancient Mesopotamia. People moved, life went on. No, life won't always be the way it is now in America, but it is irrational to think that society will always be the way we have grown to be comfortable with. We adapt, we move on. You said, "the whole world is gonna start to come here". Again, that's probably not going to happen. The days of America being the land of opportunity is ending. Look at the Index of Economic Freedom. Over the last 100 years especially, the US government has become way more economically tyrannical and unfriendly to businesses who want to have the path of least resistance to turning a profit. The land of opportunity is moving fast to other countries; we don't need to worry about that.

It is very important that you said "if the wrong president gets in office, he practically would have control over millions and maybe billions of people". Your reaction to this problem is misguided. This is like saying, "I go to this guy's basement once a week and handcuff myself to his banister and hope that he doesn't beat me. I really don't want other people coming with me, because if he's mad enough one day, he will beat all of us!" Obviously the solution here is to stop putting yourself in a position where someone has the power to harm you. The solution in the real-life scenario shouldn't be to stop other people from joining us in America, but to stop giving so much power to the people that govern us!!

Your last few sentences I think are not relevant to our debate. If 80% of Americans want to imprison all red-heads, that's not an argument. Not only does public opinion change over time, but it bears no relevance to the morality of the argument.
Debate Round No. 2
RebelRebelDixieDixie01

Con

Just to start out, im glad you share thoughts with Confederates, some people think we're all racists and we all want to kill people, well, news flash, is a 12 year old like me really going to kill someone?

Back to immigration, i understand that this country was founded off of immigrants, but shouldn't there be a stopping point? Also, immigrants generally don't pay taxes, so its like they're cheating the system and living here for free, while us on the other hand have to help pay for the roads we drive on.
Mshore

Pro

Mshore forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by RebelRebelDixieDixie01 3 years ago
RebelRebelDixieDixie01
I guess you guys don't see the world in the way that I do, the main thing I want to happen for the people that are already here, is to speak English! I cant count the times I've gone to my local Sunoco and have had this Indian who speaks half-English trying to take more money then the product costs!
Posted by michaelperry13 3 years ago
michaelperry13
pro has the better side on this. xD illegal immigrants are the reason that apple in your hand cost so little.
Posted by kbub 3 years ago
kbub
Undocumented immigrants are actually good for the economy, Pro. I'd recommend looking it up; it would make for a speedy win.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by whiteflame 3 years ago
whiteflame
RebelRebelDixieDixie01MshoreTied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct goes to Con for the forfeit, but Pro's winning everything here. New arguments start in that last post by RebelRebel (you'll want to avoid doing that in future debates, could result in a conduct loss), but none of the arguments he's presented before then are surviving the rebuttal of Pro.
Vote Placed by Wylted 3 years ago
Wylted
RebelRebelDixieDixie01MshoreTied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: Con gets conduct for forfeit pro had much better arguments