The Instigator
Mariodude34500
Pro (for)
Winning
4 Points
The Contender
Karan_m
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Should it be legal to burn a American flag in America.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Mariodude34500
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/1/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 668 times Debate No: 71574
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (10)
Votes (1)

 

Mariodude34500

Pro

I see no reason it should be banned in a free society
Karan_m

Con

I accept the challenge and according to me such deed should severely be punished.
Debate Round No. 1
Mariodude34500

Pro

So my opponent think that burning the flag should be a punishable offense. Well lets start with the most important question. That rule would violate the bill of rights, which protects political expression. Like for example burning the flag. Here's they key the flag is supposed to be a symbol of freedom. Yet you would take a symbol of freedom and apply limits on the freedom of citizens to burn their own flag. So people who want to make it illegal talk of freedom. Yet they are the people who wish to limit the freedom to demonstrate their opinion. So if you are going to say the flag is a symbol of freedom and so shouldn't be burned remember that you'd be using a symbol of freedom to limit the freedom it's supposed to be the symbol of. Also what do you want the punishment to be? Do you want to throw them in jail? For simply burning a flag. We have a word for that, fascist. So I'd like my opponent to answer two questions.

1. How is a law that prohibits burning the flag not Anti-freedom
2. What punishment do you think people should get for burning the flag?
Karan_m

Con

I respect your opinion but its baseless and pointless.The American flag is a symbol of freedom.Now,by burning it you disrespect it.So,you are asking for a thing by disrespecting it.

Secondly,anything in excess is harmful.And specifically in the topic of the freedom it needs to be applied by some restrictions only because if tomorrow you give a licence of gun to a person and if that person would do murder.Now would you tell that the person has the licence so he has the freedom to use it the way he/she wants.So,the freedoms are given to the citizens of the country to raise their voice against the wrongs not to misuse it.Moreover, you are disrespecting it so that shows that you don't even deserve it.So,I would suggest that first learn to respect a thing before asking for more of it.

I would like to answer both of your questions.
1) No,it won't be called anti-freedom because government needs to put restrictions on the freedom otherwise people would misuse it and the days will come to regret for it.(So prevention is better than cure).And its not so that restrictions are implemented on their basics rights but its only on the misuse of it.

2) I would suggest to fine that person.
Debate Round No. 2
Mariodude34500

Pro

So lets get right to it. You said that the american flag is a flag of freedom but if you burn it you shouldn't get that freedom. So you clearly don't believe in freedom if burning a flag doesn't count as freedom. Also you compared murder to burning a flag to murder. I shouldn't have to explain why that stupid but I will anyway. If I buy a american flag and burn it, that doesn't hurt you. It has no actual negative effects on you. If I kill you that has plenty of negative effects on you because your dead. Your are admitting that you don't believe in freedom even when it doesn't hurt anyone. So you want to fine people for burning a flag that stands for freedom. Seriously do you not see the massive problem with that. Also you can't punish people for burning a flag as it falls under political expression which is protected by the 1st amendment. You know in the bill of rights the thing that protects freedom which you pretend you believe in but actually don't. So please answer these questions.

1. How is it not against the 1st amendment to fine people for burning the flag.
2. How do you justify taking away freedoms from people when they aren't hurting anyone else by doing it.
3. Do you understand the irony of saying the flag is about freedom then fining people for using there freedom to do something that doesn't harm anyone else.
Karan_m

Con

Karan_m forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Mariodude34500

Pro

My opponent has forfeited this round. My points have not been debunked
Karan_m

Con

Karan_m forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
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>Reported vote: AtkinsonCameron// Mod action: Removed<

6 points to Pro (Conduct, Arguments, Sources). Reasons for voting decision: Con forfeited two rounds so I gave a better conduct vote to Pro. I gave a more convincing argument vote and a more reliable sources vote to Pro because he used the Bill of Rights several times. Con did not use any sources to justify his position.

[*Reason for removal*] (1) Source points require improved reasoning. One side citing the Bill of Rights multiple times is not sufficient for explaining the decision on this one, nor is stating that one side didn't use any sources. The voter must state how Pro's sources bolstered his argument. (2) Argument points similarly cannot be allocated on the basis of citing a single source. The voter must examine the arugments of both sides, explain where one failed and one succeeded, and vote on that basis. This RFD doesn't contain such reasoning.
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Posted by whiplatch 1 year ago
whiplatch
it's not out of the ordinary if you need to ask if you should be able to burn a flag... I don't agree with it no but there's no way to stop someone if your in a place that claims to free. That's all I was trying to say.
Posted by MizzEnigma 1 year ago
MizzEnigma
Guess it all depends. A court case has already ruled that such acts are fine as it's just symbolizing their beliefs. It was actually an important case that defines what we are able to do and to the extent. You can view their beliefs however you would like, but in the end, it is their belief that they are allowed to show. If they got violent/done crime for the sake of it, they passed the line and therefore can be arrested, but otherwise they have done nothing wrong. Punishing someone for showing their beliefs is what is wrong, even if what they do may seem dishonorable to you.

That's how I see it. If you start breaking down freedoms, then the foundations of our "freedoms" can gradually start to crack. What we're aiming for is not being one of those places that will be strict and restrictive of our freedoms. Shut down one form, and reasons for shutting down others will start to lay down.
Posted by Rahjee 1 year ago
Rahjee
I don't know man. I know we have freedom of speech, but that seems pretty dishonorable and confrontational.
Posted by MizzEnigma 1 year ago
MizzEnigma
We do have freedoms. "Illusion of choice" is also a matter of opinion based on who you are. That train of thought is one reason why people will hate America -- controversial matters, the corruption, the feeling that they aren't truly free. The Government shapes America just as much as the rest of society and is a major part of what America is. Either way you look at it, there's reason for some people (at least in their own opinion.) So, they are able to burn the flag, if they so desire, to show how they feel. Guess you can see it as a statement that things need to change. Or if they're just bored, too, I suppose.
Posted by whiplatch 1 year ago
whiplatch
I hate to break this to everyone but this isn't a truly "free society" they give us the illusion we make choices.. Our government is corrupt as always... I haven't quite figured out why people hate the country... The country is great it's the government that is the problem there's a big difference in the two.
Posted by MizzEnigma 1 year ago
MizzEnigma
It's still freedom of symbolism. If you don't like the Government and the state of America, then burn it if that's what you want to do to show how you feel. It's your freedom to do so. It would be unconstitutional otherwise.
Posted by IloveEqualists 1 year ago
IloveEqualists
The American flag symbolizes your freedom, and how we got there, if you get offended by a symbol of freedom, I surely feel sorry that you must be triggered so often in public. We don't force it upon you, but if you live in this country, then the symbol should be important, as it was that flag that we the Americans created to symbolize freedom, the very same freedom you argue that you should be able to burn the flag
Posted by IloveEqualists 1 year ago
IloveEqualists
The American flag symbolizes your freedom, and how we got there, if you get offended by a symbol of freedom, I surely feel sorry that you must be triggered so often in public. We don't force it upon you, but if you live in this country, then the symbol should be important, as it was that flag that we the Americans created to symbolize freedom, the very same freedom you argue that you should be able to burn the flag
Posted by MizzEnigma 1 year ago
MizzEnigma
Freedom of Symbolism. First amendment right.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
Mariodude34500Karan_mTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture