The Instigator
Sevara.Kushmanova
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
GenesisCreation
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points

Should marijuana be legalized in NY and the cross the East Coast?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
GenesisCreation
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/29/2012 Category: Health
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,551 times Debate No: 21599
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (1)

 

Sevara.Kushmanova

Con

Marijuana has been medically prescribed to cancer patients in California, however the federal government constantly raids and confiscates marijuana distributors. In NY the prohibition stands, if CA is the pioneer state than shouldn't NY follow suit. NY State legislature prohibits the use of marijuana both socially as well as medically. Furthermore, certain rules and policies have been implemented to support federal statutory restrictions in having marijuana rejected as a medicinal substance. Personally I feel marijuana destroys brain cells and creates brain dead zombies. I am against legalizing marijuana in medical as well as personal use, I feel that there is no significant release from pain to have marijuana as an alternative to prescription pain killers.
GenesisCreation

Pro

I accept the debate.


Opening Arguments:


    • Responsible social use has equal merit with responsible alcohol consumption. [1]

    • The primary link between dangerous street drugs and Marijuana is it's legal status. You find marijuana with Cocaine, Crack, Meth etc., because it is illegal. There is desirable profit to be made in underground trade. If we legalize marijuana it would lose it's affiliation with the illegal drug trade. R.J. Reynolds could produce a Marijuana cigarette much cheaper than the local drug cartel. Underground cultivation and distribution would disappear overnight, as seen during the prohibition. [2]

    • Cancer patients who are made sick via chemotherapy are able to sustain a regular diet, if pain treatment includes prescription marijuana. [3]

    • Legalizing Marijuana cultivation and distribution would break open a whole new industry, creating American Jobs.[4]

    • We would effectively cripple the primary income of the Taliban. Afghanistan is the world's largest producer of Marijuana Hashish. [5]


References:

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org...

[2]http://www.eastvalleytribune.com...

[3]http://www.cancer.gov...

[4]http://www.time.com...

[5]http://www.nytimes.com...
Debate Round No. 1
Sevara.Kushmanova

Con

My counter arguments:

- Responsible use of marijuana is impossible as it is a powerful inhibitor that triggers release of serotonin in the brain creating an even more hazardous state then alcohol intoxication. This poses a danger not only to the consumer but the people they surround.

- Cigarettes themselves create more cancer patients than any other controlled substance that is sold in America today. By creating another source of legal "cigarette" that is composed of an even more health damaging substance then tobacco the real answer. The underground trade of marijuana is only around because of lenient punishment the production and distribution of the drug faces. If the government increased the level of punishment for marijuana related offenses the numbers would drop below for those of crack or cocaine.

- The truth about cancer patients and their struggle to legalize marijuana is sad, however I strongly feel that it would sprout off more problems than it would solve. Today oxycodone is a controlled prescribed pain killer that has become the most popular "legal" alternative to heroin and cocaine. The oxycodone is sold by the people it's prescribed to making them entrepreneurs of their own demise.

- Legalization of marijuana would open a new industry and close down a thousand other industries as people would be laid off for being "high" or "stoners" due the drugs adverse effects.

- Taliban's primary source of income is heroin derived from poppy fields that the country is known for, marijuana is relatively cheap yields no significant gain. Taliban is now investing in Colombian cocaine production and distribution, its focus on marijuana is too insignificant to mention.
GenesisCreation

Pro

Con said: Responsible use of marijuana is impossible

Rebuttal: Opponent has no sources. Her argument is assumptive. According to Jack E. Henningfield, PhD for the National Institute on Drug Abuse [1], Alcohol is three time more intoxicating and four to five times more addictive. Research indicates the polar opposite of my opponent's claims.

Con said: creating another source of legal "cigarette" that is composed of an even more health damaging substance then tobacco

Rebuttal: Sources please. According to my sources, the cigarette argument is an overused stigma without repeatable research. Alcohol and tobacco use are far more harmful than marijuana consumption. [2]


Con said: If the government increased the level of punishment for marijuana related offenses the numbers would drop below for those of crack or cocaine


Rebuttal: Not according to my sources. As per Miller-Mccune, a stricter approach to drug policy would decrease alcohol consumption, but not marijuana consumption. Again, my opponent lacks sources and my research indicates the polar opposite claim.

Con said: cancer patients and their struggle to legalize marijuana is sad, however I strongly feel that it would sprout off more problems than it would solve


Rebuttal:I feel that legal medical marijuana actually benefits society. My "feeling" is also substantiated by research and political backing. Consider the tax cuts, when less money is needed for prison populations for minor drug offenses. Consider the revenue for medical and pharmaceutical companies, consider the decrease is alcohol related fatalities when people convert to a stimulant that does not induce over toxicity. My opponent's case is not weak, it's absent entirely. [3]

Pro said: Legalization of marijuana would open a new industry and close down a thousand other industries as people would be laid off for being "high" or "stoners" due the drugs adverse effects.

Rebuttal: As per OSHA regulation, intoxication in the workplace is already outlawed. The same rules that have been successfully used to control work-related drug and alcohol abuse will still be enforced. Con makes a silly assumption without a single source.

Pro said:Taliban's primary source of income is heroin derived from poppy fields

Rebuttal: Con placed words in my mouth. I didn't say Hashish was the primary crop, I said Afghanistan is the worlds biggest supplier of Hashish (see source). While it also cultivates poppy plants, it ranks #1 in the world for processed Marijuana export. The estimated yield is between 1,500 -3000 tons of hashish annually. While the Taliban outlawed Afghan farmers and citizens from using the drug (and in previous years even outlawed it's growth), they have since changed their policy in an attempt to economically enslave the United States through the underground drug trades.[4]

http://www.saferchoice.org... [1]
http://scienceblogs.com... [2]
http://sundial.csun.edu... [3]
http://www.atimes.com... [4]
Debate Round No. 2
Sevara.Kushmanova

Con

First I would like to state that this is a friendly debate about personal opinions and regardless of what they might be marijuana and medical marijuana is illegal by federal law in the Controlled Substances Act. (CSA) (21 U.S.C. � 811)

1.In regards of how marijuana compares to alcohol they both rack up an impressive list of drawbacks. My argument simply was that both inhibit motor function, and in operation of a vehicle or example marijuana creates "hallucinations and memory loss". And marijuana intoxication in contrast to alcohol is much harder to determine by law enforcement.

2.Smoking either is bad for you. Marijuana smoke contains 50% to 70% more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than tobacco smoke which in comparison is like smoking 3 or 5 cigarettes at once. Lung cancer develops much faster with marijuana smoke, as it is more harmful to the cilia then tobacco smoke.

3.Stricter punishment would definitely make you think twice, for example in Singapore there is capital punishment for drug trafficking. And Singapore is fast growing multicultural cities that surpassed many American metropolises like NYC and Atlanta in the quality of life and virtually zero criminal activity.

4.I do not support any substance that is legal or illegal, the difference simply is social view of the substance in accordance to the time we live in. Coffee was deemed illegal in certain countries not long ago, time will convert everything illegal into billion dollar empires that will rape society based on what the government deems legal. Marijuana will be legal in the near future but will we be a better off for it? Will it really solve the problems plaguing society and give us a miracle alternative to alcohol? Or will it just add another notch to the board.

5.There is a military principle called "denying the enemy the means of..." with 94,000 US troops in Afghanistan is there really a possibility for Taliban to go into agriculture and grow these 3,000 tons of hashish? Where do they grow it? Caves? In comparison I would point out that the US and Coalition killed 24,000 Taliban fighters since the conflict began in 2001. It's purely impossible for the Taliban to export 3,000 tons of hashish annually with the boarders locked down and US and Coalition Operational Posts and aerial surveillance monitoring the country 24/7. Look at DEA and declassified CIA reports as a viable source when it comes to drugs in a war zone.

Sources:
http://www.safeaccessnow.org...
http://www.totaldui.com...
http://www.nationmaster.com...
GenesisCreation

Pro

Con stated: "...it (Marijuana) is a powerful inhibitor that triggers release of serotonin in the brain creating an even more hazardous state then alcohol intoxication."

Con also stated: "...marijuana intoxication in contrast to alcohol is much harder to determine...."



Rebuttal: In one statement, Con claims Marijuana is more destructive than Alcohol. In the next round, Con claims that the true destructive power of marijuana cannot be accurately measured in contrast to alcohol. In short, Con really doesn't know if marijuana is destructive at all.

In addition, the source that Con provides claims the following:

"Studies have revealed that many drivers who test positive for alcohol may also have marijuana in their system as well, which shows drinking and drug usage can often be linked behaviors. When marijuana use is combined with alcohol, the impairment can significantly increase."

Alcohol, when mixed with marijuana, is dangerous. Very good evidence. Does Con know the following?

  • Alcohol mixed with Coca-Cola can significantly increase impairment. (Jack and Coke)
  • Alcohol mixed with Chocolate Milk can significantly increase impairment. (Mudslide)
  • Alcohol mixed with Orange Juice can significantly increase impairment. (Screwdriver)

 

I guess alcohol mixed with anything can significantly increase impairment. How does that make Marijuana dangerous? Doesn't that make Alcohol more dangerous?

========================


Con stated: Lung cancer develops much faster with marijuana smoke

Rebuttal: According to Stephen Sidney, MD, associate director for research for Kaiser Permanente, the current evidence shows that "although the use of [marijuana] is not harmless, the current knowledge base does not support the assertion that it has any notable adverse public health impact in relation to mortality". [1] The study by an HMO followed 65,177 men and women age 15-49 for a decade and found no increase of mortality amongst these habitual smokers.

========================

Con argues to promote capital punishment for drug trafficking.

Rebuttal: The current punishment for first time, non-violent offenders who are found to have at least 4 ounces of marijuana in their possession is up to 5 years in prison and a 2,000.00 USD fine. [2]

Con would like them executed. Non-violent offenders get executed for having a bag of weed in their pocket? Please provide sources to validate this as a feasible alternative.

===============================

Con stated: Just like legalizing coffee, legalizing marijuana will "add another notch to the board."

Rebuttal: I would ask for some sources on this statement. (Again and again, my opponent makes outrageous claims without a shred of evidence).

========================

Con stated: ...with 94,000 US troops in Afghanistan is there really a possibility for Taliban to go into agriculture and grow these 3,000 tons of hashish? Where do they grow it? Caves?


Rebuttal: I love the sarcasm, but it only serves to embarrass my opponent. Growing marijuana is not illegal in Afghanistan. They grow it in open fields. (I suppose they may grow it in caves also. I'm not sure how sophisticated they are with their herb gardens.)

 

 

References:

[1]

[2]

Debate Round No. 3
Sevara.Kushmanova

Con

Well argued Pro, you know your stuff when it comes to marijuana. Its still illegal cause Uncle Sam said so, even in Cali where the state legalized it there is a legal battle going on between the state and federal government. And feds like DEA will keep on raiding your "friendly neighborhood pot farmers" and seizing their property because its illegal.

1. Thank you for the breakdown of the local alcoholic beverages, what I simply wanted to say is that weed impairs drivers the same way alcohol does the link I posted explains in detail how drivers under the influence of marijuana were prone to "hallucinations and memory loss". Now when I'm driving down the road and some pot-head swerves into me because he saw a unicorn I'll be sure to pass on your argument to them.

2. So marijuana is a safer alternative to cigarettes? Oh my God! Why is it illegal then? Come on, the subject of my argument was not concerning mortality but the adverse effects of marijuana on the lungs when I specifically quoted that one "joint" contains the same amount of harmful "carcinogenic hydrocarbons than tobacco". That is a proven fact supported by scientific research.

3. I never said anything about promoting capital punishment for drug trafficking, I compared drug statistics of Singapore that maintains its strict drug policy to the more lenient US cities where you just get a slap on the wrist. Drug related statutes differ from one jurisdiction to the next in the US, a more centralized law like a federal law that would punish all offenders equally under the RICO statute would bring a swift end to much of the drug trafficking problems. Sadly DEA is tasked out thanks to the growing popularity of cocaine and more harmful drugs.

4. Adding another notch to the board is a figure of speech, out of all legal ways to get high do we really need another way? What I'm really asking is legalizing marijuana going to solve social problems, bring us closer as people forget about war and all the troubles of the civilized world? We could just stretch out on the couch in a drug stupor drooling on ourselves without a care in the world.

5. That's funny cause last time I checked Afghanistan was under US control, after all we did put a new Afghan government in that follows US policy. But maybe the US policy allows agriculture of heroin and marijuana, wait no it doesn't. Well this is embarrassing, I will write to President Obama immediately and call the Pentagon because the real issue isn't the legalization of marijuana no, no, no its the US policy, right?
GenesisCreation

Pro

Con said: "the link I posted explains in detail how drivers under the influence of marijuana were prone to "hallucinations and memory loss".
Rebuttal: The source is drawing from the research done at the Ben Gurion University in Israel. If you follow the link [1], you will see the actual research showed that "the combination of alcohol and THC had the most intense effect after intake. This effect was reflected in performance impairments observed in the driving and non-driving tasks, in the subjective sensations after intake, and in the physiological measures."
In conclusion, Alcohol was the catalyst. Also, I think Con is missing the point. I never advocated for marijuana smokers to operate vehicles when they are high. That's like suggesting that driving under the influence is moral because Alcohol is legal. Legalizing marijuana for medical use has zero influence on existing DUI laws. It will still be illegal to smoke and drive.

Con said: So marijuana is a safer alternative to cigarettes? Oh my God! Why is it illegal then?
Rebuttal: You've hit the nail on the head. Why is it illegal then? The research is repeatable. Marijuana is less toxic than cigarettes or alcohol [2]. In fact, a study shows that cannabinoids actually protect the lung tissue from forming scar tissue or inflammation after smoking, as per Dr. Tashkin, a pulmonologist and UCLA professor of medicine. [3] He is quoted as saying:"It may be that the macrophages from marijuana smokers release certain suppressive cytokins, like transforming growth factor- beta, which is known to suppress the inflammatory activity of nearly all of the site populations".

Con claimed: "I never said anything about promoting capital punishment for drug trafficking".
Con also claimed: "Stricter punishment would definitely make you think twice, for example in Singapore there is capital punishment for drug trafficking."
Rebuttal: If there is any other angle to approach Con's claims, I would have taken a look at it. It appears that Con clearly advocates stricter punishment and only offers a single source example. Capital punishment.

Con said: "What I'm really asking is legalizing marijuana going to solve social problems, bring us closer as people forget about war and all the troubles of the civilized world?"
Rebuttal: The drug war casualties are ranked at 15,223 dead and $52.3 billion spent each year [4]. According to the source in Esquire, the solution is not "decriminalizing" marijuana. The solution is "legalizing" it. The source is quoted as stating: "You have to take the money out of it. Many people talk about legalization and decriminalize — it's still illegal, but you're just not sending as many people to jail, especially for the non violent offenses. However, the money is still being made in the illegal sales, so you still have the drug wars. It's prohibition that's killing our people. That's why people are dying."

To borrow from my opponent, Legalizing marijuana is going to solve social problems and bring us closer as people. It's also going to save lives.

Con said: That's funny cause last time I checked Afghanistan was under US control, after all we did put a new Afghan government in that follows US policy. But maybe the US policy allows agriculture of heroin and marijuana, wait no it doesn't.
Rebuttal: Please take the time to watch the video posted. Your protest is being answered at the 4 minute 10 second mark. According to this source, the U.N. and the U.S. are backing the farmers and their crops to gain trust. So yes, the US policy does allow agriculture of heroin and marijuana.[5]

All arguments extended to next round.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov... [1]
http://www.saferchoice.org... [2]
http://www.erowid.org... [3]
http://www.esquire.com... [4]
Posted Youtube source. [5]
Debate Round No. 4
Sevara.Kushmanova

Con

1. Yes Alcohol is legal, and marijuana is not, and driving under the influence is illegal regardless of what substance you ingest. So your argument is: legalizing another powerful inhibitor that distorts human motor function will help out motorists and pedestrians. With the increasing numbers of DUI's every year you argue to put an alternate means into irresponsible drivers hands that is harder to detect or determine by law enforcement. The point of my argument was that by giving alcoholics marijuana you are not solving DUI's you are promoting them.

2. UCLA? You have to be kidding me! I said East Coast when I posted the argument. At this rate why don't you include research from Amsterdam's Coffee Shops, or quote "that guy on the street corner slinging it". Obviously Cali wants to give all the positive feedback on their newly legalized "wonder" that is reaping in millions in tax dollars by backing it up with so called "research".

3. I said charge offenders according to federal RICO statute not execute them. I included Singapore to show a drug free society that is experiencing tremendous financial growth and prosperity in harmony and happiness.

4. Oh 15,223 dead? And 52.3 billion spent? Wow, well in the spirit of looking at the bigger picture of the Drug War and throwing numbers you want to legalize everything else while you are at it? You know cocaine, crack, meth, heroin, ecstasy? If you want marijuana to be legalized than I happen to be one of those people that feels if the most consumed drug in the world is legal, the rest of them should be legal too. Than we can disband democracy and declare anarchy, since everyone will mostly be looking for their next "fix" they will be too busy to work or care.

5. Fine, you win. Pull the troops out and nuke it! How exactly are you feeding Afghanistan as a model for legalization? You are right we should pull the troops out, and tell our dear old farmers to stop planting corn and start planting pot to fund our little uprising to overthrow the "foreign devils". Oh wait that's us, and last time I checked this is the USA and I am an American. Do me a favor stop quoting Youtube and Wikipedia and Johnny and Billy and Jack as genuine super accurate sources, watch "Team America" for inspiration.
GenesisCreation

Pro

Closing Arguments:

CON has twisted my arguments into nonsense and rhetoric. Cons claims that I said:" legalizing another powerful inhibitor that distorts human motor function will help out motorists and pedestrians."
I never said that and it was not insinuated. What I said was: "Legalizing marijuana for medical use has zero influence on existing DUI laws. It will still be illegal to smoke and drive."
Conclusion: My opponent is lying. This is a debate, not a smear campaign. In addition, people are already abusing alcohol and marijuana as a recreational drug (rather then medical consumption). Legalizing marijuana wouldn't increase DUIs (a claim you made without sources), legalizing marijuana would regulate it's distribution. This is a point my sources heavily advocate.


CON said:"UCLA? You have to be kidding me! I said East Coast when I posted the argument. At this rate why don't you include research from Amsterdam's Coffee Shops, or quote "that guy on the street corner slinging it".
Conclusion: If you are allowed to introduce statistics from Singapore, I will introduce statistics from where ever I please. Your objection is noted, but it serves you no benefit. It would also help to bring up your objections earlier (perhaps before the three rounds of debating about Afghan agriculture and foreign policy). Taking up new points in the final round is a bit rude.

CON claimed: "I said charge offenders according to federal RICO statute not execute them."
Conclusion:Not true. Con made the reference to Singaporean justice first, claiming that execution is a potent deterrent to drug trafficking. I immediately refuted Con's claims, upon which Con changed the argument to include the RICO statue. That was ex-post-facto and lacked sources.
I would suggest that Con begins by reading her arguments a couple times before posting them, just to make sure she doesn't debate with extremist, easy to refute evidence. Citing her sources would also greatly benefit my opponent. Just some helpful, friendly advice.

Con said:" Oh 15,223 dead? And 52.3 billion spent? Wow, well in the spirit of looking at the bigger picture of the Drug War and throwing numbers you want to legalize everything else while you are at it?"
Conclusion: What? Is Con trying to debate my sources with heated sarcasm? Perhaps she might try (drum roll) debating me, rather than resorting to lying and character attacks.


Con said: If you want marijuana to be legalized then I happen to be one of those people that feels: if the most consumed drug in the world is legal, the rest of them should be legal too."
Conclusion: I don't even really need to debate this point. Con supports the legalization of other drugs as long as marijuana is made legal also. Far be it from me to add new points in the final round. Quite the contradictions in my opponent's arguments.


Con said: "Than we can disband democracy and declare anarchy, since everyone will mostly be looking for their next "fix" they will be too busy to work or care."
Conclusion: I would love to see some sources on this (and just about every other claim Con has made).



Ladies and Gentlemen, I stood my ground on the following points:
        • Marijuana can be consumed responsibly, just as Alcohol can.
        • Legalizing Marijuana would destroy the underground market overnight.
        • Cancer patients could enjoy a higher quality of life.
        • Legalizing marijuana would create jobs.
        • Legalizing marijuana would cripple the Taliban, who tax Afghan farms, which have recently switched from Poppy to Marijuana for it's effective cultivation.
        • Marijuana has not been linked to cancer and is available in smokeless form
        • Marijuana is not intrinsically evil, just because someone abuses it.
I believe I have upheld my burden of proof. Thank you for reading this debate and taking the time to vote. I'd like to thank my opponent for creating the debate.
Debate Round No. 5
No comments have been posted on this debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
Sevara.KushmanovaGenesisCreationTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: pro made arguments proving that marijuana wasn't that bad. he also proved it is like alcohol or not as bad when consuming it. H sowed economic profit, and proved it is a useful medicine. He also proved the black market may end if we allow it. Pro wins