Should marijuana be legalized
Debate Rounds (5)
"Nothing is ever good nor bad but thinking makes it so"-William Shakespeare
Just a few quotes to illustrate the theme of this debate. I want to begin with a list of activities I believe are more harmful than smoking marijuana (I will leave drugs and alcohol off this list and will set aside obvious dangers like smoking cigarettes and drinking energy drinks)
1.Driving a motor vehicle (including motorcycles and ATV's)
2.Swimming ( including all water related activities)
3. Sports (excluding non violent sports))
4. Extreme activities (Rock climbing, Hiking, Camping, Hang gliding, bungee jumping)
5. Leaving your front door (You get the picture)
These are just a few vague examples that prove that people have the right to choose dangerous activities. If someone tried to make football illegal, there would be a lot of people wondering what gives you the right to take it away even though it is dangerous! Should we stop people from camping even though we see bear attacks in the paper? So I think we can agree that the "dangers of marijuana" is not the real reason why it is illegal!
I recently saw a video on youtube that promoted marijuana as an alternative for alcohol.. I got excited because it made a lot of sense. I am IMHO a very observant person. In my 31 years I have seen a lot of scary people.. that were drunk. I read about drunk driving accidents all the time and have always felt that alcohol was a terrible menace to society but tramples our lives with impunity due to its impenetrable nature (we all know prohibition was a joke). The thought that you could have an alternative to escape the horrifying consequences of alcohol being the only outlet for people to unwind should get everyones attention. Lets face it the prohibition of marijuana is going worse that the prohibition of alcohol did, especially because it has be going on for so long. So much money has been siphoned into the war on marijuana and our taxes pay for the legal process including incarceration for some. But people are still using it every day and anyone can get it if they want. So I don't really see wasting money that we technically don't have to stop something that can be used to generate a massive income.. sounds fishy to me..
The argument that we don't want our children to smoke it and we don't want students to fail is negated by the fact that it would be illegal for them to have it anyways so they found it illegally which is no different than what happens with prohibition!
I will need more arguments from you to continue this debate proper. I really do want to know the real answer to why it is illegal. I know why it became illegal in the 70's but I do not know why it is still today. I leave this with a very reasonable conspiracy.. Some one is making money here.. plain and simple, there is a hidden agenda that involves power and wealth.. but I have no sources to back that up :)
I admit that weed is less addictive and harmful than alcohol or other drugs, but your arguments seem more like reasoning to ban or limit alcohol and cigarettes. The reason we cannot remove what is already rooted, such as guns and alcohol, because the population would resist it, violently. Perhaps if some plan or model for its introduction was devised, it may become a reality, but without proper limits, or even with them, the temporary intelligence detriments would inhibit schoolwork and productivity in workplaces. For this reason, I cannot support marijuana, even with the possibilities of hidden agendas.
Awaiting your response,
As we speak, law abiding, tax paying Americans are considered criminals because of the rigid laws in place.. These laws are essentially the attempt at controlling the most versatile plant on the planet. So much dogma and stereotyping comes from such an innocuous weed, it almost can be considered a witch hunt.
I'm not looking for compassion for stoners here, I am merely trying to correct an error in the system. One that has not been justified by any source that enforces it. The police, judges and lawmakers have not made it clear why marijuana is illegal, they only degrade it with stereotyping and jokes about the munchies! As I said before, I was hoping you had done the research into the root of this issue, because I truly want to know. Without an answer I am left thinking that we live in a Dictatorship masquerading as a Democracy!
I am an idealist, but I am aware that idealism has no place in reality. When we compare marijuana to alcohol it is a no brainer, marijuana is the safe alternative. That is why I promote it as a replacement for drinking and smoking cigarettes. Instead of being a nanny the government should focus on educating people about the harmful consequences of substance abuse and addiction, not charge them $1000 fine and deny them student loans!
I have a problem with authority.. whew there I said it. I believe in the power of discipline and common decency, therefore I do not need someone telling me how to live my life. I recycle, mow my grandmas lawn, and have empathy for all of my brothers and sisters (aka people)... mostly! So if I decide to smoke a bowl and watch the Avengers, I do it in my own world regardless of the hang ups and control issues of other people. Which leads to another theory of mine.. People are afraid of what they do not understand, people want to destroy what they fear.. in this case marijuana is the bogeyman. You might remember, when I broke down in the last debate it was because of my realization that everyone has something that they should not be doing, but they think they have the right to stop people from "making a mistake". (Epitome of Hypocrisy) Gay marriage is a perfect example although I'm done trying to reason with stubborn conservative Christians!
My response to your enforcement argument is a simple solution: Use the tax revenue that is otherwise used for "the war on marijuana" and use it to fund a government sanctioned regulatory system and make them do their jobs instead of ignoring the massive elephant in the room! It is a copout to think that we could not have an adaptive system that keeps the money out of the black market and back into our more important resources like health care and education! From my (idealistic) perspective I should be allowed to grow and cultivate the plant as I see fit, but I realize that is a slippery slope in reality, so I am willing to compromise.. My question is, do you think the "law" will have the same ability to adapt to reason? Or is something else afoot? Leading back to conspiracy bla blah!
The argument you made about people lifting the dogma off of weed causing more abuse and less restraint to abuse it! I will admit, addiction and breakfast bong tokes is a sad ordeal (not unlike people drinking at 2 pm) The sad fact is that people are not prone to discipline and moderation. I would be more than excited to learn that every ounce of alcohol had mysteriously vanished leaving the world into a mass detox, killing many! jk In truth, this needs to be approached with finesse. Education and positive re-enforcement is usually a good start followed by addiction counselors and maybe a better world to live in so they are not inclined to fall back into the same patterns. (I bring that up as an example of empathy for addiction as opposed to disgust and ridicule!)
"Perhaps if some plan or model for its introduction was devised, it may become a reality, but without proper limits, or even with them, the temporary intelligence detriments would inhibit schoolwork and productivity in workplaces. For this reason, I cannot support marijuana, even with the possibilities of hidden agendas."-your quote
Clearly a plan should be designed in an open discussion. I'm sure there is at least one person who can figure it out! That is far more productive than the ol "blow it out an air lock because its too scary"! These limits you are referencing are personal to each individual and should not be manipulated without proper analysis! Meaning self discipline is the solution not government restrictions (that are a violation of our human rights. ) Common decency is buried under bureaucratic red tape. I think it is an insult to rationally "evolved" people who see past the bulloney! Again as far as schoolwork and productivity goes, that has been a problem long before marijuana came into the picture.. some kids are idiots who think they are cool "acting like an adult" When really they should be thinking "maybe there is a reason I'm not allowed to have this".. solution: education! Not "Because I said so" Btw a lot of jobs can be done with efficiency and grace while high! Lazy people have themselves to blame not the plant!
Anyway give me a little more to work with here. I went off on rants because I didn't have much for a reply to your arguments. I invite you to consider my positive approach to controlling marijuana instead of "Just say NO!!"
It is good to see you returning to debating since there are so few good debates available as of recent (I have sworn off Shakuntala's debates) and it is always fun to debate with the more articulate of the site. Make no mistake of my character, i have nothing against marijuana and I do not irrationally hate it. All I think is that the change must be gradual and slow.
Until then, I await your next response,
Don't paint me as the enemy. Don't start bringing up random and unrelated topics. You still have time to win the debate, just calm down and bring your big logic guns. Understand that alcohol and cigarettes at least have regulation and control on them. I understand that there is an agenda behind this, but that isn't the debate topic. Why not start that one when this is finished? I don't plan on doing that one since I've seen the evidence, but blind rage like this is only an argument against weed.
I'll be waiting.
Moving on.. sort of.. Do not take this personally. I am merely venting to you the same frustrations I have with the inhumane structure of our world society! It is rigid and without proper scrutiny! It is trying so hard to be PC that it forgets sometimes you need to experience pain and suffering so you can know compassion. The problem is we live so comfortably without anyone poking at us to get in line so it becomes tough to master your disciplines. This is a problem regardless of the law. So in a way you are right in saying that our society is not mature, but what I'm saying is that is because we are to afraid to cut the cord and let us grow and adapt by learning from our mistakes. It is more than obvious that prohibition is one of those mistakes! I told you to find a new angle to continue this debate. I have exhausted your argument to death with only a few sentences. The rest of it is ranting about your lack of response on my arguments. I then made sure you knew I have thought about this ALOT!!! You need to step it up because I feel like I'm superman playing basketball with Justin Beiber!
Ok some of what I said was harsh but I thought it was funny enough and it did send my point home! Again trying to get you to respond.. not to my taunts, but to my arguments and insight. You told me you would try, and told me you would bend if I presented a solid case. My position is clear. Marijuana is not illegal because of any fear that you might have about what would happen if it became illegal. I thought you would find out why that is! If its not because of any of the reasons I have heard in proper debates with Chief DEA agents who only insult and degrade pot users. Not once have I heard a proper argument that doesn't crumble at first glance! Your argument about regulation and fear of abuse has been dissected, evaluated and properly disposed of.. so start diggin friend.. we have 1 round left and I'm going to need something.. Anything that can keep this debate from being me cracking your walnut with a sledgehammer!
Look, Finalfan, you want to start a one man war with two of the most powerful industries in the world? Me my %^&*ing guest. It's your funeral. You can't use alcohol and cigarettes as an argument for weed like this. I know about the injustice. I did the research too, like you asked me. But I'm not your punching bag. You want to rant about the corruption behind marijuana bans? Make that the title of the debate. I won't be your personal stress ball. Put ti in the forums. Come up with a plan of a safe way to regulate its use. To be honest, the only real reason for the ban is the lack of control over it. That's why I haven't changed my argument for it. I won't argue for any other reason because I don't believe those reasons. I don't believe marijuana causes long term harm. I know about the corruption believe me. There is a way to legalize weed without banning the other substances.You have to remove the level of fear that the government has over it. You have to show how it can be controlled like the drink and tobacco industires. How it can be limited. I won't argue a cause I don't believe in. Maybe in time, with the regulations you can provide, it can be legalized. But we aren't prepared for full, uninhibited use of marijuana yet. A drug that leaves an only temporary but powerful numbing effect can be hard to control, especially if one decides to use more weed while still under its effects. This would lead to full days of unproductivity, which could carry over to workdays. Level with me Finalfan. (Is it supposed to be Final Fantasy of something?) I hope that you and all the other users find the way of lifting the ban in a way that won't totally change society. And I will see you in the next round.
Awaiting your response,
A very popular issue with marijuana is concern for the children.. Am I the only person that knows that children are getting baked everyday as it is. So lets see.. Here are arguments against marijuana:
1. How to regulate it (I don't know maybe like alcohol) as I said lets wait and see how CO and WA handle it!
2. Children (Already a problem even with prohibition, we need more education not forbidden fruit)
3.It is dangerous (Yeah that's life, get use to it, breathing in some cities is dangerous)
4.Lazy and unproductive (tell that to the millions of stoners that are building your houses and making your food, you can't
be a pothead without money)
5. Driving high (If you have been a pothead for 10 years.. not an issue however if someone is driving half the speed limit
swerving around pull them over no matter what they are on)
So we can all agree then.. Marijuana should in fact be legalized. I await the day I can grow some plants in my house)
As final rebuttals to your final points;
1; Regulation; It's far too easy to grow at home, which would require household searches,something many would never agree to.
2; Children are finding it easier to get cigarettes every day. The last thing we need is another, apparently safe drug appearing that they can argue is healthy.
3; It's not so much dangerous as debilitating. A bus strike went on in Dublin City, for just mere days, and it costed the city millions in terms of lost production. The lack of commercialisation means that the government will make no money from it, and will lose so much from the slack in work. Weekend bong you called it?
4; Not so much lazy, more unproductive. If you're going to say they build my houses and make my food, then why is there a half built estate in the middle of my town? There's also been a horse meat scandal here too. This is unrelated, but so is the concept that a secret army of stoners runs the world. The numbers of stoners is still smaller than that of non weed users, but I do not accuse them of not working, I say that the overpowering effects of weed limits their produce.
You're going to need that regulation before you introduce it, but don't stop now. Make that model. Create those regulations. Put it to the governments and see if you can make it work. Until then, I'll be here,on the half reluctant opposition.
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