The Instigator
TheDreamer
Pro (for)
Winning
4 Points
The Contender
prinzoj
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Should monkeys be considered persons

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
TheDreamer
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/17/2014 Category: Science
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 674 times Debate No: 67194
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)

 

TheDreamer

Pro

1. Primates are an order of mammals that include very primitive animals called Prosimians, as well as monkeys, apes, and humans

2. A human being is a man, woman, or child of the species Homo sapiens, distinguished from other animals by superior mental development, power of articulate speech, and upright stance.

3. A monkey is a small to medium-sized primate that typically has a long tail, most kinds of which live in trees in tropical countries.

4. With the exception of humans, which inhabit every continent, most primates live in tropical or subtropical regions of the Americas.

5. Humans and mammals are both in the category of primates.

6. Both humans and chimpanzees are able to walk bipedally.

7. An inherent value is having value as an individual, something that is inseparable from you, and equal between all.

8. All those who have inherent value have it equally, whether they are human or animals.

9. Monkeys, as well as all animals, should be regarded as children and therefore be protected since they cannot protect themselves.

10. Justice for monkeys should not be judged based on how many people get upset by the horrible acts against monkeys.

11. The monkey, so close to the species of human, is put through pain, suffering and surgical manipulation for money and individual profit.

12. If all, both humans and nonhumans, have inherent value then for the most part we are all one in the same.

13. The pain of an animal is morally relevant.

14. We cannot justify killing a human being for experimentation so therefore we should not be able to justify killing a monkey for experimentation either.

15. Humans have an obligation to protect and not harm nonhuman animals.

16. Animals are said not to have rights because they are not capable of responding to claims of morality, this should mean that it is then humans responsibility to exercise their rights for them in their best interests.

17. An ancestor is an earlier type of animal from which others have evolved.

18. Humans, apes, and other hominoids (gorillas, chimpanzees, and so on) all evolved from a common ancestor.

Therefore, Monkeys should be considered as persons.
prinzoj

Con

1.Animals exist to benefit humans, so what harms them is irrelevant.

2.Only human pain can be morally relevant.

3.Although the pain animals suffer is real, it is not wrong if no one cares about them.

4.The pain animals suffer is not the fundamental wrong.

5.The fundamental wrong is the system that allows us to view animals as our resources and that they are only here for us.

6.Most people are not knowledgeable in that a toxicity test for cosmetics on animals is the same as using them for medical research, such as cancer.

7.Kindness is defined as acting from a certain motive, such as concern and is thought to be an act that is right.

8.Cruelty is defined as causing pain or suffering and is considered to be an act that is wrong.

9.Just as an act of kindness is not a morally right act, and act of cruelty is not a morally wrong act.

10.Humans are just as cruel to other humans as they are to animals.

11.Monkeys are not humans, they are primates and because of this they should be treated like animals, not humans.

12.Utilitarianism is a principle that states we can justify good results with evil means.

13.Although this applies to and protects humans, it applies only to them and not animals, so animals cannot be protect by this principle.

14.It is not the responsibility of humans to protect animals.

15.Inherent value is defined as existing as a permanent quality or attribute.

16.Animals, such as monkeys are not literate, and do not have the abilities or intelligence humans do, therefore they have less inherent value.

17.Only humans belong to the species group, Homo Sapiens.

Therefore, monkeys should not be considered persons.
Debate Round No. 1
TheDreamer

Pro

How can one say that animals are here to benefit us? Monkeys and chimps have similar DNA and the same ancestors which mean they are also humans. We humans were once animals. How is it possible to justify experimenting and causing unneeded pain to in essence ourselves?
Human pain is not the only pain that is morally relevant. Monkeys have logic and the ability to reason, so they know when they are being hurt and are in pain. The pain an animal feels is fundamentally wrong, it is being forced onto them by humans for no reason. I mean there would not be a good reason to ignore a human"s pain and there is no justifiable reason to ignore the pain of a monkey.
The system that allows humans to view animals as our resources and here for the sole benefit is wrong. The only way to change the system is to change the people who make it. Cosmetology testing on animals is the same as medical research on animals, both are harmful and unfair. Who is to say that their life should be used for experimentation? A human life has the same inherent value as a monkeys life does.
Cruelty is defined as causing pain or suffering and is considered to be an act that is wrong. Monkeys have qualities that allow them to have the very basic legal right not to be imprisoned. Humans are in essence enslaving their own race because we humans have originated from the same place as monkeys have. No one, human or nonhuman deserves to be, imprisoned.
If our lives are valued the same as a monkey"s life then that means both should be protected under the law. We are destroying ourselves in destroying the lives of these non-human animals. These monkeys cannot relay completely how they feel to us but it is relatively clear. When in pain they cry out for help, they have reason to try to escape; they are the closest in relation to humans so they need to be treated as such.
Therefore, monkeys should be considered as persons.
prinzoj

Con

Just because monkeys are similar to humans does not necessarily mean they are also humans. Monkeys are similar to children; they are both like humans, however they do not have certain rights or duties. Children do not get treated the same way human adults do and therefore, neither should monkeys. Monkeys cannot bear any legal duties, be held legally accountable for their actions, or hold responsibilities. If they were to be treated like humans, they would commit crimes, put humans in danger, and make the environment humans live in, taken over by animals.

Human pain is the only morally relevant pain. The same way a human causes pain to an animal, and animal can cause pain to humans. If you go into an animal"s environment, they will kill you without regard to your feelings. The only differences are that we have rights and they do not, and we do not kill them for no reason. Animals are used for many necessity reasoning such as for food, clothes, or testing products. Some may believe we use animals for only cosmetic testing, however, someone who is knowledgeable in this area knows it is for more than just that. Animals are used for toxicity test for many medical purposes to save the lives of humans. Humans are also used for testing products, the only difference is the outcome it causes on the human verse the animal.

Humans and animals have different inherent values. Most monkeys do not have logic and reasoning, or else they would be able to function like humans. Yes they may be somewhat similar, but not nearly similar enough to be considered humans. Just like animals are used for medical research and testing, humans are too. The circumstances may be different between the two, however, this is because humans have rights and animals don"t. If we do not test on animals, how else do you expect to get the results to make sure it is safe to use on humans? In testing on animals, many human lives can be saved.

Monkeys do not have any rights. It is only said that they cannot be put in danger. Just because some are in captive, does not necessarily put them in danger. People are imprisoned as well, and they are safe too. Humans deserve to be imprisoned when they do something morally or legally wrong. Similarly, exotic animals that are putting humans in danger should be held captive.

Our lives are not valued the same as animals" lives, such as monkeys, because we are humans and they are not. We have rights and deserve to be treated as the humans we are. Monkeys are not humans they are primates. What makes anyone think we should treat monkeys as if they are something they are not? Should we treat an ant on the ground like a human? That doesn"t sound realistic, and neither does treating an animal as if it were a person. Monkeys and all animals should not be protected by anything besides themselves and their own kind. They definitely should not be protected by the law, because legally, it is stated that a person is any being whom the law regards as capable of rights and duties. Animals, and more importantly, monkeys do not have either and therefore should not and will not be protected.

Therefore, monkeys should not be considered persons.
Debate Round No. 2
TheDreamer

Pro

Monkeys are not humans but do have many if not all the characteristics that classify a human as Homo sapiens. So. You are agreeing with me that monkeys are like children. Ok, going along with this assumption you cannot then continue to say that they are not like humans, because a child is a human. A child does not have certain duties or rights but that does not change that they ARE humans. It is true that monkeys cannot bear legal duties because the court must recognize you as a citizen in order for that to happen. You cannot say if monkeys were to be treated like humans, they would commit crimes or put humans in danger because they do not do that now so it would be ridiculous to say so.

A total of 20,000 monkeys die every year from research experiments out of approximately 40,000. Humans do not want to have monkeys considered as persons because it will not benefit them any longer. When you isolate a wild animal it becomes a distortion of what it once was. Monkeys are NOT dangerous animals and are able to reason and coexist peacefully with humans.

When I accidentally step on my cat or dogs tail they yelp and limp away in pain, why is that? They fail that they are in pain and they are smart enough to realize they need to move away from what is hurting them. If we know they can feel pain and react to it there pain is morally relevant. Being morally relevant is being concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior and the goodness or badness of human character and closely connected or appropriate to the matter at hand. Humans DO KILL ANIMALS especially monkeys NEEDLESSLY so you are wrong about that. Humans have rights that"s why their lives are protected in some ways, so the reason some people do not want to allow monkeys to have the same considerations as person"s so that they may continue on violation these non-human animals without consequence. How immoral you have to defend such individuals.

Monkeys are not used for food or clothes for humans just as guinea pigs. So in what world is it morally right to harm or endanger a being for the sole benefit of one"s makeup looking smoother or more defined someone who is knowledgeable in this area knows how harmful this could possibly be but disregards that. Animals are used for toxicity test for many medical purposes to save the lives of humans. "Humans are also used for testing products, the only difference is the outcome it causes on the human verse the animal", if this is true why do monkeys die and not humans? If this is true why not continue solely testing on humans?

Humans and animals do not have different inherent values, we read the same reading and it says all being with inherent values hold the same ones. Most monkeys DO have logic and reasoning and that is proven, that is why they are such a hot commodity to be experimented on. So what you are saying is that monkeys and humans are both used for medical research and the monkey dies but not the human because they do not have rights. That is utterly ridiculous why kill monkeys pointlessly if you can save them? Human lives are not the only important lives on this planet.

If it says they cannot be put in danger then that is not being enforced anywhere. Simply taking an animal out of the wild and its natural habitat decreases their chances of survival. Injecting them with some concoction a scientist wants to test endangers the animal. You are right people are imprisoned for harming another individual or violating laws and endangering the welfare of others. A monkey is imprisoned and abused against his/her will for simply being close to Homo sapiens in DNA. We are not talking about exotic animals we are talking about monkeys and the like. Does anyone think that their child should be experimented on for the benefit of others?

Therefore, monkeys should be considered persons.
prinzoj

Con

A child is not considered to be a person. Although they have human rights, they do not have rights under the law. This does not consider them to be a person, it considers them to be a human child, incapable of responsibilities. Monkeys do not deserve either of these rights. Indeed, monkeys are similar to children because they have rights to live but they do not have legal rights, due to the fact that they cannot hold responsibilities or duties. A child cannot legally be punished for his or her actions, similar to the way a monkey cannot. Monkeys do not commit crimes because they do not live in a civilized area with rules, regulations, and laws. Whatever they do in in the wild is justified for their species, but not in human society, which is why, they cannot be considered humans. Monkeys would destroy civilization and put the human society in danger.

Even though a select few monkeys have been able to coexist well with humans, does not necessarily mean that ALL monkeys will. Monkeys are wild animals and deserve to be treated so. Bringing a wild animal into human societies will drive the monkey insane. It will not know how to live in that type of environment and will probably end up dying. Bringing monkeys into human life and considering them to be persons will in the end hurt them because they are not capable of responsibilities and therefore, will not survive in human society. Yes, there are a ton of monkeys that die from testing, however you never hear about the amounts that die from disease, or being eating by other animals. They live in the wild and by bringing them into human society will cause a spread of diseases to us. In trying to save the monkeys, you will actually not only hurt them, but hurt the human society as well.

Just because we know they can feel pain does not necessarily make their pain morally relevant. The same way humans kill animals; other animals kill their own species. Similarly, they do not think that animal"s feelings are morally relevant. Humans do not needlessly kill animals. They kill animals for food, clothing, or testing, in which they need to survive and find cures to illnesses. What one does to an animal is not in violation because animals do not have rights. There is nothing to violate if there is not law protecting them. Just because I defend these humans does not necessarily make it immoral.

Humans test make up and cosmetics the same way animals do. Mainly, animals die from testing of medical research, not cosmetics. Cosmetic testing is becoming more and more popular on humans, rather than animals. Monkeys are used for medical testing rather than humans, because why kill something that has rights over something that does not. There is nothing that protects animals, therefore monkeys are used to be tested on to save human lives.

If taking a monkey out of its natural habitat decreases its chance of survival, why would you want to do that? In order to consider a monkey to be a person, they must live a lifestyle as a person, which they cannot. A child is not experimented on because a child has human rights; monkey is not a human. Legally, it is stated that a person is any being whom the law regards as capable of rights and duties. Animals, and more importantly, monkeys do not have either and therefore should not and will not be protected.

Therefore, monkeys should not be considered persons.
Debate Round No. 3
TheDreamer

Pro

Monkeys have inherent values, the same as humans, so they should have rights similar to humans.

No where in the world is it legal to kill another human being.

Monkeys and humans are similar in DNA by 98%, if that does not prove my case I do not know what will.

Blacks and white people are both humans with the same DNA makeup and at a time blacks were considered inferior and not given rights but we know today that was wrong.

Monkeys and children are similar.

Monkeys are capable of reason and understanding.

By using some monkeys in painful experiments, and selling others to universities, federal facilities, and private laboratories, where they are imprisoned in tiny cages, cut up, poisoned, crippled, addicted to drugs, shocked, and killed we are harming ourselves. Humans are selfish animals that do not think about the future and believe if someone or something does not have the means to defend themselves they can be taken advantage of.

Monkeys have been able to coexist with humans on numerous occasions.

Taking animals out of their natural habitat endangers them and makes them less likely to be able to survive with their own kind.

Humans know that animals feel pain so and they ignore their pain.

An animals pain is morally relevant.

If humans and animals are treated equally in relation to experimentation then both groups should leave alive, but that does not seem to be the case.

Through monkeys humans have found out about themselves would mean that we are so alike I can better my life through the use of yours.

If monkeys benefit humans so much they should be treated with respect and afforded the same rights, freedom and opportunity as humans.

Therefore monkeys should be considered persons.
prinzoj

Con

1.Animals exist only to benefit humans.

2.Only human pain is morally relevant.

3.The pain of a monkey is irrelevant because no one cares about them.

4.An act of kindness is not morally right and similarly, cruelty is not morally wrong.

5.Just because monkeys are similar to humans does not necessarily mean they are the same.

6.Monkeys and animals cannot hold responsibilities and duties that humans can.

7.Animals, such as monkeys are not literate, and do not have the abilities or intelligence humans do, therefore they have less inherent value

8.Because monkeys are not literate, they cannot survive like humans.

9.Monkeys are similar to children, but the difference is, children have human rights and monkeys do not have any rights.

10.A child cannot legally be punished for his or her actions, similar to the way a monkey cannot.

11.Just because a select few monkeys were capable of getting along with humans, does not necessarily mean all of them will.

12.If taking monkeys out of their habitat will reduce their chance of survival, why would one want to put them in a human society will they will not be able to survive?

13.Just because humans know animals feel pain, does not necessarily make that pain morally wrong.

14.Monkeys do not have rights and therefore are not protected by anyone except their own kind.

15.Monkeys are primates, not humans.

16.Monkeys are wild animals and should be treated as such.

Therefore, monkeys should not be considered persons.
Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Vajrasattva-LeRoy 2 years ago
Vajrasattva-LeRoy
Oh, really?
When was the last time you saw monkeys driving cars up & down the streets?
Posted by Sanchez_5367 2 years ago
Sanchez_5367
Monkeys should be considered human because they can do what every a human can if they are raised like us or even if they aren't raised like us they can still do everything that we as well.
Posted by Vajrasattva-LeRoy 2 years ago
Vajrasattva-LeRoy
Animals, monkeys, etc. , do have legal rights, protections, etc.
Posted by Vajrasattva-LeRoy 2 years ago
Vajrasattva-LeRoy
Interesting Debate.

The idea that people=monkeys=all animals, etc. , obviously doesn't make sense.
The idea that we should consider monkeys, let alone all animals, human children
doesn't make sense.
"Injustice" doesn't exist.
You could spend eternities trying to create "justice" .
L. Ron Hubbard pointed out a long time ago that very high toned people can
perceive many differences between things.
There are vast differences between humans & monkeys.
The idea that humans & nonhumans are the same doesn't make sense.
Unless & until animals CLAIM that they're human, they can't be considered human.
Unless & until animals CLAIM they have rights, they can't be considered as having rights.
The idea that if monkeys & humans have the same ancestor monkeys have to be
considered human doesn't make sense.
We may have been animals at one time, but that doesn't mean that we're animals now.
Our bodies are apparently animals, but we aren't.
If you really want to do something about humans' pain & animals' pain,
why don't you just start with the humans' ?
I think you'll find that rats, mice, dogs, cats, worms, bacteria, viruses, etc. ,
also apparently feel & respond to pain.
Pro would insist that they're all human, then?
The idea that the pain of animals isn't morally relevant doesn't make sense.
The idea that if you go near any animal it'd kill you doesn't make sense.
Nor does the idea that they'd kill you for no reason.
Nor does the idea that using animals, testing animals, etc. , is always necessary.
I was arrested, charged, jailed, dozens of times, kept in jail for long periods of time, etc. ,
charged with a "crime" that never existed, without ever being convicted.
( "Trespassing on Public Property" . )
Taking supposedly dangerous animals out of their native habitats,
taking them to the other side of the world, & locking them up in cages doesn't make sense.
If monkeys aren't dangerous & can peacefully coexist with people
why don't a lot of peop
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by hayhen13 2 years ago
hayhen13
TheDreamerprinzojTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: "The pain of a monkey is irrelevant because no one cares about them." Most of Con's arguments were based off opinion and Pro's arguments had evidence. Also most of them sounded very evil and scary. I care about a living thing being in pain, your argument is therefore false.