The Instigator
Leo.Messi
Pro (for)
Tied
3 Points
The Contender
nmullen16
Con (against)
Tied
3 Points

Should prayer be allowed in American public schools?

Do you like this debate?NoYes+3
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/16/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 861 times Debate No: 67166
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (3)

 

Leo.Messi

Pro

Prayer should be allowed in pubic school.
i will not present any arguments the first round.

1st round-acceptance
2nd round-rebuttals and arguments
3rd round-rebuttals and conclusion

Thanks!

No profanity, Be chivalrous and respectful, no name-calling.
Call out a logical fallacy if you see one.
nmullen16

Con

I accept this debate
Debate Round No. 1
Leo.Messi

Pro

Thank you for accepting!
Here are my arguments-strait foward.

1)The first amendment states-
"...no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech."
By not allowing prayer in public schools, you are contradicting our american constitution in two ways.
a)You are prohibiting the free exercise of religion
b)You are abridging the freedom of speech
So really you have violated the constitution in two ways.

2) "Since 1962 (outlaw of public school prayer) the number of teen pregnancies has gone up 400%, divorce rates have gone up 120%, suicides have gone up 253%, and violent crimes have gone up 660%. It"s not just morality, learning has dropped as well. We were 2nd in math, now we"re 24th. 26 million adults can"t read at all. We have to have gates to keep the kids in at the schools."

Anyways-that's my arguments.

I will elaborate more in my conclusion.
http://blog.scslakeland.com...
http://constitution.findlaw.com...
nmullen16

Con

As regards of the First Amendment, the United States shall not establish or abridge any religion. The question here is "should prayer be allowed in public schools. The answer is, yes it is. You are allowed to pray in school, even have a public prayer with a group of people in any part of the school as long as it does not interfere with other people. The problem here is not whether or not you are allowed to pray in school, the problem is having mandatory prayer in school established by the school. Since public schools are funded by the government, the endorsement of prayer by faculty or the school itself is in violation of the United states constitution. Separation of church and state is essential in the United States. You cannot assume because the school is not allowed to mandate prayer, that it is illegal to pray in school. As for the birth rate and crime statistics, the probability of it being from public prayer by school mandation is not on the list. In actuality, the most religious states like Mississippi, Texas, Alabama, and Louisiana have the highest teen pregnancies, which is mostly form their "abstinence only" education and restriction to contraception. As of crime, that is of a socio-economic problem, not an educational prayer one. As of sources, I apologize for I have only mind to source these objections.
Debate Round No. 2
Leo.Messi

Pro

Actually the argument was not about mandatory prayer-but actually "Should prayer be allowed in American public schools?"
Allowed does not mean forced. This is ALLOWING a prayer. In general. I don't believe I gave any confiration or sign that this debate was about mandatory prayer. I will repeat my argument.
1)The first amendment states-
"...no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech."
By not allowing prayer in public schools, you are contradicting our american constitution in two ways.
a)You are prohibiting the free exercise of religion
b)You are abridging the freedom of speech
So really you have violated the constitution in two ways.

In general, prayer is good. It is not respecting a certain religion. In fact, it allows all religious groups to pray to their deity. Christians to Jesus, Catholics to St. Mary, Muslims to Allah, Jews to Jehovah etc.

In conclusion, Prayer should be allowed in public schools mainly because of Constitutional freedoms.
nmullen16

Con

Again, prayer is allowed in schools. But the faculty and the school are not allowed to initiate or conduct it. All prayer is allowed in schools. At my school, Muslims went to go pray 5 times a day and no one stopped them. Your argument is a non sequitur. Obviously prayer is allowed in schools. There is no school in the United states that will prohibit you from praying in school. So in conclusion, prayer is already allows in school, there is no law abridging your right to pray in school, they school itself is not allowed to participate in any prayer, for it respects that certain religions over another. Say a Christian prayer was held by the school even though Buddihsts went there. That would be abridging freedom of and from religion. There fore your argument is already at fault, because prayer is already allowed in school.
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by IndianaFrank 2 years ago
IndianaFrank
I'm curious as to where you people live. When a child sits down in the cafeteria no one stops them from saying a silent prayer over there food if they so desire. Objections to religion come from the teaching of religion in public schools. After all, who's religion do you teach ? Yours, mine and who's prayers are to be said, Yours ? Mine ? People want there child raised according to there religious beliefs not the beliefs of you or the teacher.
Posted by ThreePointOneFour 2 years ago
ThreePointOneFour
I have a couple of questions for Pro before I vote. Your first source for your argument states: "Unfortunately, the Supreme Court ended up taking prayer out of public schools. After that, nobody could pray, read the bible, or learn about God anymore." Why do you think that is a true statement?

Do you realize that America is the most Christian country in the world and that Christians lead all other groups (religious and atheist) in abortion, teenage pregnancy, violent crimes, and divorce?
Posted by ThreePointOneFour 2 years ago
ThreePointOneFour
Does Pro think that me praying in school to be an illegal activity? Does Pro think the constitution prohibits people from praying in schools? If the answer to these two questions is "yes" then Pro is wrong.
Posted by nmullen16 2 years ago
nmullen16
For people who do not understand. The pro was saying prayer wasn't allowed in school. That is what I got from that.
Posted by Vajrasattva-LeRoy 2 years ago
Vajrasattva-LeRoy
Prayer is, of course, already allowed in schools.
There wouldn't be any way for teachers, etc. , to stop people in schools from praying silently.
Barring people from speaking out would be Unconstitutional, under the First Amendment.
(Freedom of Speech)
Not even Congress, which is called the highest law-making body in this country, can pass laws
abridging freedom of speech.
Schools, etc. , are Public/ Taxpayers' property.
The idea that you can't talk on your own property doesn't make sense.

The Catholics' deity ISN'T St Mary.
The Jews' deity was ISN'T Jehovah.
His name was Hebrew, & pronounced Yahweh.
The Muslims' deity would be in Arabic,
& pronounced in the Arabic manner.
The Christians deity ISN'T Jesus.
My name wasn't Jesus.
I had a Hebrew name, pronounced Yeshua.
I never claimed to be God back then.
Posted by samanthalamarca 2 years ago
samanthalamarca
I think that prayer in American public schools should be allowed but not required. Prayer should be something that students are allowed to do but on their free time. Students should not be required to participate in a prayer as part of the morning announcements or as part of a class.
Posted by BDPershing 2 years ago
BDPershing
the'res allot of factors that go into crime, suicide, pregnancies, assuming its because of the absence of religion is irrational. As for education that is due to the poor education system, kids are just not into the general education anymore we need to have specialization/majors offered around middle school, letting kids focus on what the want to learn so the may thrive and enjoy the educational experience. Making a person do poetry when they want to do science does not give them motivation to learn.
Posted by AbandonedSpring 2 years ago
AbandonedSpring
Schools cannot mandate prayers because of the establishment clause of the constitution. If you stand behind the constitution, then you must also stand behind the separation of church and state.
Posted by Edwar3je 2 years ago
Edwar3je
I'm confused. When you say, "we should allow prayer in schools." what does that exactly mean. Are you talking about making students recite mandatory prayers (like reciting the pledge of allegiance) or are you talking about allowing students to pray on their own. If it's the former, I'm not sure if that's covered under the first amendment considering that this would force the minority into having beliefs that they don't agree with, but if it's the latter, then I'm not sure why this would be up for debate.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Ozzyhead 2 years ago
Ozzyhead
Leo.Messinmullen16Tied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:00 
Reasons for voting decision: Firstly, no sources were used, so no points in that area for anyone. There was no debate here. Con was right, prayer is allowed. There was no argument really here.
Vote Placed by gomergcc 2 years ago
gomergcc
Leo.Messinmullen16Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro argument hinged on prayer not being allowed in school as caused all these bad things to happen. Con makes a clear argument that prayer is allowed in school. Pro should have been better not using cause and effect style argument.
Vote Placed by Solomon_Orlando 2 years ago
Solomon_Orlando
Leo.Messinmullen16Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: I think Con misunderstood the debate's topic. The title clearly represented allowance of prayer, not mandated prayer, and Pro never gave any implications of the latter in his arguments. Pro had more convincing arguments simply because Con wasn't able to refute it, but, in fact, agree with his opposition that it was allowed in school, which was the initial premise of the debate.