The Instigator
belindatheballoon
Pro (for)
Losing
8 Points
The Contender
TheHitchslap
Con (against)
Winning
16 Points

Should public speaking and debating be compuslory for year 7 and 8s?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
TheHitchslap
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/7/2013 Category: Education
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,962 times Debate No: 34580
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (6)

 

belindatheballoon

Pro

I think that public speaking and debating should be compulsory for year 7 and 8s as it helps with their confidence and self-esteem. Debating and public speaking allows the year 7 and 8s to boost their confidence in talking to larger amounts of people/audience, which will also help to improve their english skills because it helps to build up and strengthen their vocabulary and oral part of english.
TheHitchslap

Con

Not All Jobs Require Public Speaking:

If public education is suppose to give the student in question the skills necessary to succeed in life, along with a job (for instance math for taxation, accounts, etc...) Then because not all jobs actually require any form of public speaking, this skill is essentially useless in schools, and thus should be voluntary not compulsory.

Correlation is Not Causation:

Just because public speaking may increase a persons confidence, or oral skills (hahah oral get it?!?!) does not mean this will happen for every student, or that for that matter every student will actually experience that increase in self-esteem, other factors may do that and those factors need to be emphasized, not shoved down the throats of students.

Essentailly, There is NO Difference Between This and English:

For my opponent to meet his BOP he must show why this seperate course must be compulsory instead of simply merged in with English courses and emphasized at the teachers leisure there. There is no difference as far as I'm concerned and thus, my argument destorys his.

Thank you!

Vote Con!! (Me)

Debate Round No. 1
belindatheballoon

Pro

I understand that not all jobs require debating and public speaking, but there are still some jobs that can use these skills. At school, we are required to do history, technology, geography and so much more in Year 7 and 8. These subjects aren't needed in some jobs, but we can still benefit from them, which is the same as public speaking and donating. Like the subjects I mentioned before, you can drop debating and public speaking in Year 9 if you do not enjoy it. Public Speaking and Debating are skills that benefit you in the future, which is why I believe that it should be compulsory for Year 7 and 8s to do.

Yes, I admit that not everyone will like doing this, but it will benefit them in the long run. I still believe that all the students in year 7 and 8 will have their confidence and self-esteem raised through talking and debating in front of a larger audience. Some people may say that they are too scared or frightened to do it, but soon it will become a fun experience and opportunity. It will definitely help with their confidence because it enables them to be more dauntless.

Debating and public speaking can also help to establish new friendships or even strengthen some. I have met most of my friends through debating and public speaking and i think that Year 7 and 8s would benefit from this. Most of them have moved from different schools, without their friends and some even without their families. Public speaking and debating should be made compulsory for the year 7 and 8s.
TheHitchslap

Con

Complusory versus Non-complusory:

First the majority of subjects my opponent names off are issued to students so that they may see if they would be interested in doing those topics as a career, nothing -- I shall repeat -- nothing requires as a job only public speaking skills. If they do, it would be issued under on the job training, and thus irrelevant as a course

Schools already provide:

Although they are not manditory, debate teams exist everywhere, if not in highschools then in universities and colleges, or even this website, if students want this (public speaking) they can find it easily. Those who are shy shouldn't be forced into doing something they find uncomfortable. This may be traumatic for an introverted individual as opposed to an extroverted one. My opponents only excuse is "it will benifit them in the long run" however one Sir Ken Robinson in his speech done at RSA animate on youtube (google it if you'd like) noted that students learn better empirically when they get to learn how they want to learn then at one particular way or not (if students prefer to be alone let them, they learn better, some are better in groups)

Force does not always meqan benificial, something my opponent failed to address

Lastly Why Not English?

My opponent dropped this point. Whats the difference between English courses and debate? Why not have it as part of that course instead of a complete independant course?

VOTE ME!
Debate Round No. 2
belindatheballoon

Pro

I would like to address 3 main flaws in the opposition's case.

My opponent has stated that the subjects that are mandatory in Years 7 and 8 help to develop careers, but we don't use public speaking and debating for any occupations. I disagree with this. Most jobs require public speaking and debating and the ability to speak in front of large audiences. I admit that jobs don't just need public speaking and debating skills, they need others as well, but you need more than one skill to do jobs. For example: even to be a cashier, you need English and Maths skills as well as communication and social skills. So I think that public speaking and debating will help the students in the future for their careers, which is why I believe that they should be compulsory for year 7 and 8s.

Secondly, he said that it would be distressing for some shy students to do public speaking and debating. This is a reason why it should be compulsory for all year 7s and 8s. There are some shy people in these years, especially because they are starting off new and without the people you know and love. If they find it uncomfortable, they should do it, in order to improve. There's a saying that goes, "Face your fears," and I think that is what the shy and uncomfortable people should do. They should face their fears and try to be better and improve. Students in years 7 and 8 who are uncomfortable and shy should face their fears. Making debating and public speaking compulsory for them will help them to become less shy.

Finally, my opponent stated that I have said that debating and public speaking has to be a separate course. I never said that public speaking and debating has to be a separate course. I am open to having them together with English as the oral (talking and listening) section.

My arguments for this debate are that it helps with the students' confidence and self-esteem, improves English skills, helps for future careers and occupations and helps to establish and create new friendships.
VOTE FOR ME!!! ; D
TheHitchslap

Con

My opponent levels no new arguments against me, in fact he just repeats everything he has repeated in earlier rounds.

Jobs with public speaking:
Politican

Jobs With No Public Speaking:
Journalist
Assistants
Teachers
Philosophers
Authors
Police Officers
Doctors
Engineers
etc...

What jobs is my opponent talking about?

My opponent ignored Sir Ken Robinson as evidence that the proposal my opponent submits is actually damaging not benifical and just makes a bare assertion fallacy without addressing my argument. This is a dropped point.

Also, I never accused my opponent of saying it should be a seperate course, but that it was implied in the resolution, and that to meet his BOP he must show why it isn't already addressed in English, or for that matter implimented as a small segment. He never does this, and instead strawmans my argument.


Vote for me please, thank you!
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by TheHitchslap 4 years ago
TheHitchslap
Just seeing it now, yes he has changed it. Thank you!
Posted by Ragnar 4 years ago
Ragnar
: At 6/11/2013 12:06:39 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
: http://www.debate.org...
:
: VB
: "Gave arguments to pro because I felt they were better"

Was the vote in question deleted by admin? Because I can't find it, and all the votes are older than this post.
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by YYW 4 years ago
YYW
belindatheballoonTheHitchslapTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: This was a fairly straightforward loss for PRO. While PRO offered speculative benefits which may stem from requiring public speech, CON sufficiently demonstrated either those were fallaciously speculative, or just do not follow. Sources to CON for his citing Sir Ken Robinson.
Vote Placed by Magicr 4 years ago
Magicr
belindatheballoonTheHitchslapTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro failed to demonstrate that such courses should be compulsory. While he did highlight some possible benefits, Con successfully demonstrated why none quite affirmed the resolution.
Vote Placed by 1Historygenius 4 years ago
1Historygenius
belindatheballoonTheHitchslapTied
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Reasons for voting decision: I felt Con was more organized in a debate structure. Overall, arguments were even.
Vote Placed by orangemayhem 4 years ago
orangemayhem
belindatheballoonTheHitchslapTied
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Total points awarded:42 
Reasons for voting decision: Really enjoyed this debate. I decided not to award points for conduct, but Con bordered on being a bit too aggressive occasionally, though not enough to make me award votes. A couple of S/G issues on each side but fewer on Pro's side, so I gave that to Pro. Arguments to Pro - I felt that Pro did a better job of combatting what Con had to say, whereas Con sought more to dismiss the relevance of what Pro was saying - a tactic I'm not sure entirely worked here. Con was the only side to mention a source though it would've held more weight if Con had cited it, as opposed to telling me to Google stuff.
Vote Placed by Risen 4 years ago
Risen
belindatheballoonTheHitchslapTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con demonstrated his points better
Vote Placed by SlaterJ23 4 years ago
SlaterJ23
belindatheballoonTheHitchslapTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con flip flops too much even though he is more organized