The Instigator
Niall_McGee27
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
lawlypants
Pro (for)
Winning
5 Points

Should radical Islam be banned from the United States?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
lawlypants
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/15/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 639 times Debate No: 85050
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (7)
Votes (1)

 

Niall_McGee27

Con

Radical Islam is a following group that follows the Sheria Law. This is a code that says to kill the infidel and rape women. This is not appropriate and should not be considered a religion but a threat to the United States
lawlypants

Pro

First of all, you have to explain what you mean by "radical" and what your idea of "Islam" is. You also have to understand what "sharia law" is. People study all three of these things for their entire life and still don't know it all 100%.

http://dictionary.reference.com... ---> dictionary definition of radical, all definitions apply.
If by radical you mean 100% adhering to the Quran and the teachings of Islam as closely as possible then some would argue that this is a wonderful thing to do.

What is Islam? https://en.wikipedia.org...
The word "islam" translated from Arabic to English means "submission to the will of God". Islam is a verbal noun originating from the triliteral root s-l-m which forms a large class of words mostly relating to concepts of wholeness, submission, safeness and peace.[23] In a religious context it means "voluntary submission to God".

What is a muslim? https://en.wikipedia.org...
The word "muslim" translated from Arabic to English basically means "one who submits their will to the will of God". The word muslim (Arabic: مسلمR06;, IPA: [G2;mA0;sl=8;m]; English /G2;mA2;zl=6;m/, /G2;mA0;zl=6;m/, /G2;mA0;sl=6;m/ or moslem /G2;m;4;zləm/, /G2;m;4;sləm/[13]) is the participle of the same verb of which islām is the infinitive, based on the triliteral S-L-M "to be whole, intact".

What is considered the "will of God" in Islam? It is whatever is written down in the Quran. So a muslim cannot be a muslim unless their believe and adhere to and agree with every single verse written down in the Quran.

The burden of proof is on you to show where in the Quran it says that muslims are supposed to rape females and kill people for absolutely no reason at all. Keep in mind that whatever verses you provide, such as verse Quran 2:191, I will read most of the verses before that verse and most of the verses after that verse so that I can fully understand what the actual message is.

You will come back and start arguing about "interpretations", I will respond by telling you that in that case everything can be interpreted differently, including a math book, physics book, dictionary, and dr. suess's "green eggs and ham". The interpretation argument is weak. If 10 different people sat down and sincerely read the book they would all come to the same conclusion about what the actual message of the Quran is in certain places.

When one side is uneducated and doesn't know the Arabic language and how much "richer" it is than the English language (one word in Arabic can be correctly translated into 10+ different words in English), of course there will be arguments.

To boot, if Islam teaches that it is okay to stone an adulterer to death then what would be anyone else's beef with it? This becomes a question of morality.

Why is it incest wrong then? Why is anything wrong then? Why is it wrong to kill and murder people if you take away the argument of God telling you not to do that because it is wrong and the argument that it does harm to people (how incest will very quickly create deformed offspring, killing people will create dead people).

Science is a methodology for understanding how the physical universe around us works. Science will NEVER have the answer to everything, and there are plenty of things science cannot speak on at all, morality being one of them. An individual then, has to utilize and exercise REASONING skills. But even then I would argue that an individual cannot come to any solid conclusion at all about what should be "right" or "wrong" on their own.

If one argues to the contrary, then they open up a can of worms, because what that entails is that everyone will start coming up with their own ideas of what is "right" and "wrong", it becomes subjective and relative to each person. One guy will be okay with incest but not be okay with killing, and another guy will be okay with murder but will shun incest. If you have 7 billion people across the planet doing their own thing, there would be chaos, with everyone pointing the finger at the other person being angry at them about why they are doing things a different way (which is currently happening more and more actually).

If you take away those things, as you mentioned before, we can all basically go around doing whatever we want. And this is why ATHEISM is extremely dangerous. When you have people who feel like they should be able to do whatever they want morally because they have no real concept of morality or where it comes from or what is "right" and "wrong", and when they also feel like they won't be answerable for their actions at all, at any point, after they are dead, you have very high potential for confused potentially genocidal maniacs running around doing whatever they want. Examples of this include Mao Zedong who killed upwards of 80 million people, Joseph Stalin who killed upwards of 25 million people, Pol Pot who killed upwards of 2 million people, Ho Chi Minh, Hideki Tojo....in fact the 20/21st century was riddled with Atheistic leaders who killed more people than all of humanity combined from all previous wars and conflicts, including religion, by far.

Furthermore, there is no single place on earth where Sharia law is adhered to 100% today. Not Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Indonesia, Malaysia, USA, Canada Europe, not anywhere. There are already laws that have been put in place that would not allow Sharia Law or any other religious law to be implemented 100%, because people have their own confused ideas of what is right and wrong.

Should "radical Islam" be banned? But then you will have to ban everything else, ban christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, etc etc etc, ban every single other belief on earth as well.

So my answer is NO. I would argue no, but that is my personal opinion and where I personally stand on morality. I would argue no, also for the reason that it wouldn't change anything at all. Banning guns won't stop a terrorist hell-bent on using guns to massacre people (the recent Paris attacks are a perfect example, automatic rifles and explosives were illegal and 100% banned in France and that didn't stop them did it? NO), and banning "radical Islam" won't stop anyone who wants to be a "radical muslim". I don't like advocating for things that won't make any real difference.
Debate Round No. 1
Niall_McGee27

Con

Ok all of this is great that you actually look up things. Congrats. Facts and the written law can be broken. You just have to look at reality. Reality means that radical Islam is not even a religion. Ok look when you have a code such as Shria Law that says kill the infidel and women are to be mistreated. The American society doesn't need this to be in our country. First off all people who follow this always want to kill Americans. 9/11, San Berniedino, Charlstown SC. According to sources there are multiple cases where people turn to Shria law and do mass shootings.
lawlypants

Pro

You said:Ok all of this is great that you actually look up things. Congrats. Facts and the written law can be broken.

I say: You rather make things up and follow conjecture and do whatever you feel like doing?

You said: You just have to look at reality. Reality means that radical Islam is not even a religion.

I say: Yes, so lets forget about facts and meanings and reality and let's just believe what the nice looking tv lady on the TV screen says? That isn't how reality works. Islam is a religion... what you consider "radical" I have absolutely no idea.

You said: Ok look when you have a code such as Shria Law that says kill the infidel and women are to be mistreated.

I say: There is no official book out there titled "Sharia law". No such book exists. The Sharia law comes from an understanding of Islam and Islamic Jurisprudence which comes from the Quran and Hadith and a scholarly understanding of those sources. It doesn't come from your mommy or daddy or your news anchor.
You have no idea what Sharia law is. Sorry buddy.

You said: The American society doesn't need this to be in our country. First off all people who follow this always want to kill Americans. 9/11, San Berniedino, Charlstown SC. According to sources there are multiple cases where people turn to Shria law and do mass shootings.

I say: Because you are the spokesperson for America? Atleast 10 million Muslims live in the USA and that number is growing. And how do you know people want to kill americans or why they want to or what the Quran teachs? I don't think you've opened up the Quran and read it for yourself not even one time your life so far, this is probably very likely true which makes it extremely sad in my opinion.

Maybe people want to kill Americans because of political reasons and not religious reasons at all. Maybe if you vote for your government to go and kill 100,000's of INNOCENT people in a village in the middle east, maybe those people will simply want to get revenge because you just killed their entire village who didn't do anything to anyone at ALL. Maybe that is why and it has nothing to do with Islam? But political motivation or any other possibility can't be a possibility at all right?
Debate Round No. 2
Niall_McGee27

Con

You seem to think that I am referring to all Muslims. This isn't true. Look an article from FoxNews says that at least 50% of the Muslims in America follow and are followers of the shreia law. Look all I am saying is that we as the United States of America shouldn't allow a pratice that says killing the infidel and raping women and all of the other things is ok and let it be. This can not and should not be the case. I respect the Quran and Muslims who don't follow shreia law.
lawlypants

Pro

You said: Look an article from FoxNews says that at least 50% of the Muslims in America follow and are followers of the shreia law.

I say: I don't watch or listen to the media, because I like to get my information from real sources.

You said: Look all I am saying is that we as the United States of America shouldn't allow a pratice that says killing the infidel and raping women and all of the other things is ok and let it be. This can not and should not be the case. I respect the Quran and Muslims who don't follow shreia law.

I say: Let's keep it simple...here it goes. SHOW me where it gives the message in the Quran that women need to get raped. Right now. Give me the exact location where I can find it in the Quran so I can see it for myself.
Debate Round No. 3
Niall_McGee27

Con

You are like many. The Quran and shreia law are not the same thing. Shreia law is based off the Quran. The Quran doesn't mention anything about raping women but it does say to kill the infidel. Either one of those things shouldn't be allowed. Also you mention to get real information. If you are suggesting that foxnews is not a sorceable site tell me how you are citing Wikipedia. But you cannot prove that Fox News isn't sourceable so you cannot tell me it is not a reliable source.
lawlypants

Pro

You said: "You are like many. "

I say: This debate isn't about me. Focus on the topic.

You say: "The Quran and shreia law are not the same thing. Shreia law is based off the Quran. The Quran doesn't mention anything about raping women..."

I say: So one minute you are claiming that Shariah Law and the Quran tells people to rape women and now you are saying it doesn't? So either you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about when it comes to Islam, rape, and Sharia Law, OR you are a liar. In either case, it's not looking good for you. If you are confused about these topics or if you are LYING about these things, then I think to myself, "what else could this guy be LYING about", you lose credibility when you show yourself to be a liar or confused. Everything you say I will fact-check, and you should do the same thing before you speak or respond.

In every instance that Quran mentions that "the infidel" should be killed it is talking about what is permissible for a Muslim to do during times of war with another combatant, that message is clear in the Quran but you wouldn't know this because you've never read the Quran thoroughly, you've just simply listened to your Fox news. If you bring me quotations from the Quran I will go straight to the Quran and read a couple verses before and after until I have a full proper understanding of what the Quran is actually saying and I will fact-check you again, so be warned, kafir.

You say: "Either one of those things shouldn't be allowed.

I say: By the way, who put YOU in charge to decide what should or should not be allowed? Who are YOU that people need to follow your potentially confused and definitely subjective ideas of morality? What makes your ideas of "right" and "wrong" better than everyone elses, including the Quran or Shariah law?

You say: "Also you mention to get real information. If you are suggesting that foxnews is not a sorceable site tell me how you are citing Wikipedia. But you cannot prove that Fox News isn't sourceable so you cannot tell me it is not a reliable source."

I say: You can source Foxnews all you want, sure it is "sourecable", but I don't consider it credible, because I'm not in high school anymore. The problem with that is that Fox News doesn't define Islam, the Quran does. What are we still in high school or something? Jennifer told Jessica that John told Mike who told Amber who told Lewinsky that Jacob farted, so lets not ask Jacob if he really farted or not, lets just believe whatever rumor everyone wants to spread without any real evidence (i.e going straight to the source which is the Quran, in terms of what we are talking about...this is called an "analogy" in case you want convolute it), what are you, in high school dude? Get real. Fox news doesn't define Islam, the Quran does.
Debate Round No. 4
Niall_McGee27

Con

You can't make the argument that I was saying both shreia and the Quran. That is why i say I respect the Quran but not shreia law. You have no reason for calling me a liar because I am only comparing Sheria law and not the Quran. I state that the shreia law is based off the Quran but I never said that the Quran says anything about raping women. So you are a bigot for calling me a liar when you don't even know what you are saying.
lawlypants

Pro

You say: You can't make the argument that I was saying both shreia and the Quran. That is why i say I respect the Quran but not shreia law.

I say: The entire foundation of Sharia law is the Quran...if the Quran doesn't allow people to get raped, it will never be allowed in Sharia law. People cannot just pick and choose what is Sharia law, the entire foundation of "sharia law" IS the Quran.

I have already mentioned this in a previous round, ROUND 2, which you seem to have completely and conveniently ignored, and here it is again:

--->There is no official book out there titled "Sharia law". No such book exists. The Sharia law comes from an understanding of Islam and Islamic Jurisprudence which comes from the Quran and Hadith and a scholarly understanding of those sources. It doesn't come from your mommy or daddy or your news anchor.
You have no idea what Sharia law is and/or you are very confused about this.

You say: "You have no reason for calling me a liar because I am only comparing Sheria law and not the Quran. I state that the shreia law is based off the Quran but I never said that the Quran says anything about raping women. So you are a bigot for calling me a liar when you don't even know what you are saying."

I say: See my previous statement above: Sharia law comes from an understanding of Islam and Islamic Jurisprudence which comes from the Quran and Hadith and a scholarly understanding of those sources. Sharia Law, essentially, comes from the Quran, the two are inseparable. Sharia law can NEVER allow anything to be okay if it is not allowed in the Quran. Therefore when you say that Sharia law tells everyone to rape women, you are saying that the Quran allows people to rape women. Sharia law comes from an understanding of Islam and Islamic Jurisprudence which comes from the Quran and Hadith and a scholarly understanding of those sources.

You say that sharia law is bad and it shouldn't be allowed and radical Islam is bad, and 50% of muslims believe in Sharia law, and then you are confused about where Sharia law comes from, you have no idea what it is, you have no idea what a muslim is, you have no real idea what Islam is. How can you even begin to speak about something and formulate an opinion about something that you seem to have absolutely no real idea of where it comes from?

Sharia deals with all aspects of day-to-day life, including politics, economics, banking, business law, contract law, sexuality, and social issues.

There is not a strictly codified uniform set of laws that can be called Sharia. It is more like a system of several laws, based on the Qur'an, Hadith and centuries of debate, interpretation and precedent.

Islamic shariah is not implemented in any country of the world, most Muslim countries have their own laws & chosen only few of laws from Islamic shariah.

How long does it take for a person to become a Judge in the United States? It takes years upon years of studying, well the same thing applies to Sharia Law. You think you are going to be an expert on Sharia law and how it works by watching foxnews every night? Get real dude. It is way more intricate and complex then you think, and your idea of it and where it comes from and what it is, is very warped and riddled in confusion.

In conclusion: No, Islam should not be banned from anywhere. The entire world needs Islam, Islam is the cure for all sorts of nonsense around the world actually. A Muslim is a person who believes in and strives to adhere to 100% of everything that is written down in the Quran and Sharia law comes from the Quran. Even if Islam was banned, it isn't going anywhere. No one can control what a human being thinks or feels in their heart.
Debate Round No. 5
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
raskuseal, this has nothing to do with who you voted for. I haven't read the debate, I don't know either of the debaters at all. There's no reason for me to impose bias on you to any degree.

What is unusual is me giving 4 separate reasons for a vote's removal. Usually it's one or two. The reasons you gave for your decision are, frankly, baffling. That you think posting more words in a round is reason enough to award conduct means a) that you don't understand what conduct is, or b) that you don't like reading longer posts and wanted to take it out on Pro. You didn't explain S&G despite awarding it. Your reasons for awarding arguments could be copy-pasted onto any debate and have exactly the same meaning as they have here, informing no one of anything beyond your generalized perceptions. And yes, source points require more reasoning than that.

So while you may feel as though your vote was perfectly fine, I'm telling you now that it did not meet the basic standards of the site. You flippantly awarded points and never really explained the overall decision. Either of those would be reasons enough to remove your vote.
Posted by raskuseal 1 year ago
raskuseal
You're joking, right?... no, seriously?.... wow. this is getting ridiculous. I can't vote ANYWHERE without some lowlife reporting my vote and having a moderator remove it. This is getting REALLY annoying. I GAVE my reasons WHY I voted the way i did. Just because some one doesn't like who I vote for doesn't mean they have to drag me down.
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: raskuseal// Mod action: Removed<

4 points to Con (Conduct, Arguments), 3 points to Pro (S&G, Sources). Reasons for voting decision: Con may not have used sources, but he uses common knowledge and logic. He also makes has a more convincing argument because he had better conduct then lawlypants, as he did not flood the debate with text.

[*Reason for removal*] (1) The voter doesn't explain S&G. (2) The lack of sources by one side is not enough to justify the source point allocation. If sources effectively added to the other side's argument, that would be sufficient, but the voter has to say that that's the case. (3) This justification for conduct is insufficient. One side using a longer argument is not reason enough to award conduct to the other side. (4) The voter doesn't explain arguments. Conduct alone doesn't justify the argument point allocation, nor does the use of "common knowledge and logic." The voter must point to specific arguments made in the debate.
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Posted by imabench 1 year ago
imabench
rask dont ever vote on a debate again because you clearly have no idea how to vote properly
Posted by raskuseal 1 year ago
raskuseal
I completely agree with Nail_McGee27. Unfortunately, our dear, beloved Muslim president, Obama and his leftist cronies support the Muslims because of of being politically correct! (most of that was sarcasm, except for me saying I support Nail_McGee.)
Posted by shalal12 1 year ago
shalal12
He also doesnt know what "radical Islam" is.

I suggest you to do research about this sub-sect of Islam (Wahhabism). Here is the branch:
Muslims=>Sunnis=>Hanbalis=>Wahhabi and Takfiri Muslims.
All the radical Muslim terrorists all over the world e.g al-Qaeeda, ISIS, Buku Haram, an-Nusrah and... are basically from Wahhabi sect. To let you know that your government DOES support Wahhabi and Takfiri nations!! Strange yeah?!!

USA supports the stub of terrorism tree and fights with leaves!!!
All the Muslims are following Sharia, ALL!!
Those radical Wahhabis have their own interpretation of Sharia.
Posted by WAM 1 year ago
WAM
You're debating on the wrong side.....
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by imabench 1 year ago
imabench
Niall_McGee27lawlypantsTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Con essentially dismissed all of pro's arguments and sources because it disagreed with his warped worldviews. Ignoring arguments rather then proving why they are wrong doesnt defeat the pro's points, it just concedes them. Full argument and source points to pro, spelling almost went to Pro as well since Con is apparently inept at spelling "Sharia' correctly....