The Instigator
rolemodel-JFK
Con (against)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
sboss18
Pro (for)
Winning
8 Points

Should society give in to the Transgender issue?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
sboss18
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/4/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 835 times Debate No: 101685
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (3)

 

rolemodel-JFK

Con

Society should not give in to the transgender issue at hand. A man is a man and a woman is a woman.
sboss18

Pro

While you have heavily skewed the wording in the resolution to your favor ("give in" being a symbol of resignation, and thus having a negative connotation), I am for the idea that society should accept the transgender community, along with the idea that gender and sex are two different things. I assume the first round is for acceptance only.

Transgender: denoting or relating to a person whose sense of personal identity does not correspond with the gender assigned to them at birth.

Good luck in the coming rounds, Con.
Debate Round No. 1
rolemodel-JFK

Con

In today's society people all over the world have subdued to the idea that transgender is the new "norm". People have looked away from the fact that they are actually looking away from a mentally ill person.
The mental disease transgender person has is called Gender Identity Disorder. It is a condition that makes people believe they are another gender then the one they were born into.
So yes, I do believe society is giving into the transgender issue. Society is promoting and aiding a mental health problem the is a significant mental disease. The only reason transgenders go under surgery is to feel accepted into the mental state they thing they are in, this is why their therapists advise them to go under surgery. The therapists believe this will help cope them with their mental issue and give them the comfort they need. But as a society we need to help these people and not be okay with them changing their body when they have a serious mental health problem.
sboss18

Pro

In the interest of fairness, I will save my rebuttal for the next round and will use R2 for my opening statements as well. My arguments will be broken into three main claims:

[Claim 1] Gender Dysphoria is not a Mental Illness

[Claim 2] Gender ≠ Sex

[Claim 3] High Suicide Rate & Bullying in the Transgender Community

[Claim 4] The History of Transgenderism

[C1] Gender Dysphoria is Not a Mental Illness

Gender dysphoria is the actual technical term used by psychologists to "...describe people who experience significant dysphoria (discontent) with the sex and gender they were assigned at birth. [1]" For example, if someone was born with a penis and possessed the physical traits and characteristics of the male sex but felt they were instead female, they would be categorized as having gender dysphoria. The outdated phrase "Gender Identity Disorder" was used to characterize trangenders as having a mental illness, but this is simply not true [2]. Contrary to what some people would like to believe to disparage the transgender movement, having gender dysphoria is not a sign of mental illness.

"A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder. [3]"

The idea that not aggreing with the gender and sex you were assigned with at birth is a sign of mental illness is one of many reasons why the transgender community is still stigmatized and discriminated against today, rather than simply being accepted.



[C2] Gender Sex


My opponent begins in his Round 1 post saying "A man is a man and a woman is a woman," which is a very antiquated way of thinking. One would assume he is under the impression that there is no distinction between gender and sex, as they are one in the same, but this is also untrue. Sex is assigned to one when they are born, and refers to your biological status, "...with physical attributes such as chromosomes, hormone prevalence, and external and internal anatomy. [3]" However, gender refers to the societal role one assumes of you based on your sex, and is disjointed from sex from a biological and emotional standpoint. Gender is a societal construct, and should be treated as such.


But this should raise the question, "Why are some people transgender?" Unfortunately, there is no straight answer, but simply dismissing it or saying they're doing it for attention or to be unique would be ignorant.


"Many experts believe that biological factors such as genetic influences and prenatal hormone levels, early experiences, and experiences later in adolescence or adulthood may all contribute to the development of transgender identities. [3]"



[C3] High Suicide Rates & Bullying in the Transgender Community


It's no secret that transgender people are more likely to be bullied and targets of hate crimes than cisgendered people. Along with this is the unfortunate fact that US legislation does not protect transgender people from discrimination under most circumstances. Passive and subtle discrimination is also rampant, with them receiving disapproving stares to being asked very personal questions about their bodies. Suicide rates among transgenders is also frighteningly high. Roughly 41% of all people who identify as transgender attempt suicide at some point in their lives, well above (approximately 10x above) the national average of 4.6% [4]. This is no doubt attributed to the staggering amount of bullying they receive, though this is also a statistic people use against the community to label them as having a mental illness, further pushing them away from society and victim-blaming them.



[C4] The History of Transgenderism


Transgender people have been around for hundreds, if not thousands, of years [3] [5]. The notion that this is a recent movement or something the "liberal media" is trying to push into normativity is unfounded.



Source(s):


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org...


[2] http://www.webmd.com...


[3] http://www.apa.org...


[4] https://thinkprogress.org...


[5] http://www.experts123.com...



Debate Round No. 2
rolemodel-JFK

Con

My opponent has stated that the suicide rate is "roughly 41% of all people who identify as transgender". What he fails to mention is the fact that the Anderson School of UCLA came out with a study saying that the suicide rate is still the same after the operation and after the person identifies themselves as the other sex. So virtually, it does not matter if society accepts them or not they still will commit suicide due to their mental disease.
Which brings met to the next point, I will strongly urge my opponent to relook at the fact that Gender Dysphoria is a mental disease. The disease makes the person delusional, and ultimately American Society is fueling the delusion.
The rebuttal to the proposition that this is a recent movement is correct, it isn't. It has been around for many years but since Bruce(Caitlyn) Jenner has announced and undergone his transformation it has taken the liberal media by storm. They(Liberal Media) claim that transgenders are discriminated and should have rights. They do have rights and society needs to know that by backing the movement they are backing the new age Liberals(violent and very progressive).
Finally, as I conclude this I would like to thank my opponent for his opinions and his thoughtfulness. But I must say, society had give in to the transgender movement and need to know the real reason people turn transgender.
sboss18

Pro

While I thank Con for seeing the debate through, there is really no substance to their arguments. It is all sans evidence to back up their claims, and he has failed to accurately explain why exactly transgender people should not be more accepted in our society. With all of that said, I will rebut what little arguments they have.

"In today's society people all over the world have subdued to the idea that transgender is the new 'norm'. "

You're not using the word "norm" correctly, as no one is arguing being transgender is the norm. If, however, you mean it to say "a way of behaving or doing things that most people agree with," you have failed to explain *why* it's a problem.

"The mental disease transgender person has is called Gender Identity Disorder."

Pro has failed to back up this claim as well, while I have already explained why gender dysphoria is not a mental illness.

"But as a society we need to help these people and not be okay with them changing their body when they have a serious mental health problem."

You are not an authority on society, and as such, should not be dictating what is "necessary" for it. I agree that we should be helping them, and one way to do that is through acceptance. If someone genuinely feels their gender does not match their sex, and would be more comfortable having reassignment surgery to conform and feel more "normal," what is wrong with that?

Other than that, I extend all my previous arguments. My opponent has done nothing but push an antiquated rhetoric without any evidence to support his opinions. Vote Pro.
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by missmedic 9 months ago
missmedic
your religion is telling people what to do.......................................
Posted by BJanders96 9 months ago
BJanders96
Transgenderism is a disorder... A disorder is defined as being a state of confusion, a disruption of normal physical or mental function, or peaceful or law abiding nature (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com...).

The thought of being something other than what your genetics state that you are (which are the final decision maker of whether you are male or female: your chromosome number and type) is not normal and has only recently begun to emerge. To be satirical, I kind-of wonder if all this pollution has done something to the brains of Americans. Many of them seem to be polluted now...

Also, I don't believe that I should be hated and scorned because I hold my religious beliefs and beliefs in actual science higher than the opinions of society. That's one of the main reasons America was founded: so I can have the right to practice my religion the way I want without people telling me how to worship.
Posted by dsjpk5 9 months ago
dsjpk5
You should! It's hilarious!
Posted by sboss18 9 months ago
sboss18
I laugh too, dsjpk5.
Posted by whiteflame 9 months ago
whiteflame
Debate: http://www.debate.org...

Profile: http://www.debate.org...

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>Reported vote: Capitalistslave // Mod action: NOT Removed<

5 points to Pro (Arguments, Sources). Reasons for voting decision:

[*Reason for non-removal*] No RFD is required on this debate. That doesn"t change depending on the vote.
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Posted by dsjpk5 9 months ago
dsjpk5
I always laugh whenever someone reports a vote whenever no rfd is required. For some reason, I felt like somebody would do that on this debate. Looks like I was right!
Posted by whiteflame 9 months ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: dsjpk5// Mod action: NOT Removed<

3 points to Con (Arguments). Reasons for voting decision:

[*Reason for non-removal*] No RFD is required on this debate.
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Posted by rolemodel-JFK 9 months ago
rolemodel-JFK
"Facts don't care about your feelings" great quote from the great Ben Shapiro, who inspired me to question this movement and its ideas.
Posted by TheOnlyPinecone 9 months ago
TheOnlyPinecone
So many tangents to pick from but I think I have decided, let's talk. (I nit picked some spots that caught my eyes)
I always enjoy starting with "Facts don't care about your feelings."
If we wish to make ground in this debate then let's start with more definitions, how to we define transgender?
The way I would define gender is through biology, chromosomes (specifically the sex chromosomes in humans).
I could care less about how a transgender person feels, but my problem is how they affect me. They can do whatever they want, as long as it doesn't infringe upon my rights as a person. I accept them, but that doesn't mean I should be forced to call them by the pronouns they prefer (for example); that would violate my free speech as a United States citizen.

In regard to the suicide numbers for transgender people:
Anyone know what the suicide rates were in the Nazi concentration camps during WW2?
It was about 25% or 1/4th (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...).

Hmmm, I guess transgender people are just under worse conditions than those poor souls...
Oh wait, they aren't, most especially in the United States. It's almost like they have a psychological condition. Also the suicide rates don't get any better after the transformation surgery, so that isn't really helping them.
I want to help all people, including the transgender people, but the truth is that they 'are' accepted in the modern western world, both on a legal level and a societal level. I can give more examples and happy to talk about our different perspectives.
Posted by sboss18 9 months ago
sboss18
My Round 2 post should read "four* main claims".
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by SolonKR 9 months ago
SolonKR
rolemodel-JFKsboss18Tied
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Vote Placed by Capitalistslave 9 months ago
Capitalistslave
rolemodel-JFKsboss18Tied
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Vote Placed by dsjpk5 9 months ago
dsjpk5
rolemodel-JFKsboss18Tied
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