The Instigator
bmascolo
Pro (for)
Losing
2 Points
The Contender
mghee188
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

Should students face drug tests throughout their education?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/18/2011 Category: Society
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 5,314 times Debate No: 15456
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (1)

 

bmascolo

Pro

I firmly believe that students from middle school to high school should have mandatory drug testing.

My reason to refute this argument is that throughout these years in a teenagers life is when the most peer pressure occurs, most likely occurring throughout the school environment. Throughout my middle school and high school career, I have seen every drug, only knowing what it had been from health classes I had to take throughout middle school and high school, this class supposed to influence students to make the right choice but not really giving hands on help.

Based on given information from (http://www.teendrugabuse.us...),

"That the teen drug/alcohol user's academic performance is severely impaired, along with his or her level of responsibility – such as skipping class, failing to complete assignments, etc. – speaks to the notion that drug and alcohol use is rampant throughout American middle and high schools."

I firmly believe that if the school system and parents combined formed a more hands on policy throughout school systems could prepare young students from peer pressure and becoming responsible for themselves throughout college. One cannot control an adults decision when going off to college, but by influencing students that drugs and alcohol can have an affect on young students education. High school is the most important four years and its important for an individual to take full advantage of their education while they have more help. Student drug tests may not stop alcohol usage but drug testing students may help students become better and become more responsible for themselves and their decisions.

Although you cannot make decisions for an individual throughout a lifetime to keep away from drugs, school systems can start students off on the right foot by drug testing and students perhaps facing disciplinary action.

(http://www.drugabuse.gov....)
Throughout these findings, drug use increases throughout ones education. The idea is not to control an individual but just give them a sense of direction with ONE drug test in the beginning of the year and ONE at the end of each school year. If teachers or administrators suspect any drug use of students, they have the right to insist on drug tests to be taken more than the two required tests. I think my argument is fair because although it may limit an individuals freedom and freedom to make mistakes, its only twice and if they do what has to be done throughout school and maintain good behavior and grades, there should be no need for more than what is asked for.

The idea is to help students realize potential mistakes that they may make when giving into peer pressure throughout environments with their peers and how it will effect the school environment. If school systems do not start doing such actions, more students will bring drugs into the learning environment, making it unsafe. And based on research, the drug usage only goes up throughout middle and high school..unless something is done.
mghee188

Con

I accept this argument.

Drug testing in middle school and high school, would have no affect on students what so ever.

My reasoning behind that would be like you said we spend many years learning about drugs, what is drug testing going to prove; besides the fact whether they listened to the speaker/teacher, or not. Also if drug testing students was to actually happen for accurate drug tests it would cost school's thousands. A cheap drug test in stores can cost fifty dollars and that test only covers marijuana and particular drugs; drug test won't cover all the drugs these students are exposed too.

You said you can't control an adult, how do you expect to control these kids? They sit in classes for 8 hours and then they are out in the world, where those teachers and even parents can't control or protect them anymore. How many times is a student or child caught smoking or drinking, and then they continue to do it - drug testing I feel is only going to push these kids to try to sneak it, and to see if they can get away with it. There teenagers there excuse is going to be were young, it's our time to make mistakes - try different things.

Everybody makes mistakes, especially teenagers they mess up numerous times throughout their younger years, and drug testing them is only going to make them rebel. If this also was to occur how can we possibly treat these kids with their confidentiality not being at risk; it's middle-school and high-school everybody is involved with one anothers lives. Something like drug testing people think can save their children or students, but it can potentially just as well ruin a child or student's life and reputation as well.
Debate Round No. 1
bmascolo

Pro

In response to your argument....

Also if drug testing students was to actually happen for accurate drug tests it would cost school's thousands. A cheap drug test in stores can cost fifty dollars and that test only covers marijuana and particular drugs; drug test won't cover all the drugs these students are exposed too.
- It would be no different from the immunizations and physicals that schools require at the start and end of each school year. The school would not be conducting the tests themselves, most physicals require a urine sample from the individual anyways, just instead of testing for infection.. test for drugs that may be present in the system. The cost would be NO different from an average required physical.

You said you can't control an adult, how do you expect to control these kids? They sit in classes for 8 hours and then they are out in the world, where those teachers and even parents can't control or protect them anymore.
-The idea is not to control the adult, which is why I stated one cannot control kids. But the idea is to push kids in the right direction by taking action. The idea is not to have drug tests all the time, just to require two (as stated) beginning and end of the year and if there is any suspected problems that is effecting a child's education than drug tests will be taken, it may not always be the case but the idea is to put the child's feelings first and help any potential problems.

There teenagers there excuse is going to be were young, it's our time to make mistakes - try different things.
-The idea that this time is a time to make mistakes that could be detrimental to these kids futures, health, etc is saying that we should just sit back and watch a child harm their futures and their health? That makes no sense. And these drug tests would help the child in the right direction, whether they may continue or not. The idea is to push them in the right direction, after high school, they can do whatever they want. But just like health classes teaching teenagers that drugs are bad, drug testing is a more hands on method of helping a teenager find their way and help them learn from potential mistakes they may make with drugs.

Something like drug testing people think can save their children or students, but it can potentially just as well ruin a child or student's life and reputation as well.
-How so? Can your assumption be proved. Statistics show that once students start experimenting with drugs, it only gets worse.. teenagers choosing to experiment with more drugs. These drugs have an effect on a teenagers brain, WHICH IS STILL DEVELOPING! This is extremely harmful to a teenagers health and will affect them short term and long term. The brain of a teenager is still developing and is undergoing changes still, drugs only interfere with their development. These choices they make can lead to drug addiction which is not easy to overcome. Drug testing develops a connection between the school system, parents and the child to help push children in the right direction before its too late and they ruin their future and can harm their health.

Reputation is irrelevant at this point, what does drugs do to ones reputation that is good? Nothing. By the school system having a physician drug test students as part as a physical is a way to help students succeed both academically, mentally and physically in a healthy way. And in terms of a child rebelling, they are only harming themselves and chances are if this is started from middle school there would be less peer pressure by stopping it before its started within schools, sure there is older students that can influence the younger students. But the idea is that drug testing will limit or prohibit the use of drugs and keep them out of the learning environment. If a child lives with a parent, parents take action at the sign of their child's future and health being jeopardized and if the child is so concerned about reputation they will do what it takes to keep things positive for them. By saying no to drugs and focus on preparing yourself for what comes after high school. Colleges strive off students GPA's and SAT scores, etc in order to show evidence that a student is eligible to attend their institution. We constantly push the idea of students staying "drug free", and this is the best way to enforce this, linking parents closer to children.

http://www.justthinktwice.com...
http://www.suite101.com...
http://www.psychologyinfo.com...
mghee188

Con

In response back to your argument:

It would be no different from the immunizations and physicals that schools require at the start and end of each school year. The school would not be conducting the tests themselves, most physicals require a urine sample from the individual anyways, just instead of testing for infection.. test for drugs that may be present in the system. The cost would be NO different from an average required physical.
- Okay, what about students who do not have full health coverage? Certain insurance plans don't cover drug testing in a physical, so it seems like it would be a good idea to say test them while their getting a physical but it can still be up to an extra thirty dollars; and in certain families that thirty dollars can be going towards food and bills.

The idea is not to have drug tests all the time, just to require two (as stated) beginning and end of the year and if there is any suspected problems that is effecting a child's education than drug tests will be taken.
-So beginning of the year before a child enters school you drug test them, and if they have an idea of when this physical takes place they can have time to clean their system - so they take the drug test and pass. The problem with drug testing kids through out the year is if your suspecting a problem are you ultimately going to jump to a drug test, what happens if they child just was having a problem at home or with friends etc, there are plenty of things that can effect a child's education; drugs is not always the case. Lastly at the end of the year when its time for the drug test, and lets just say the student fails, what then? It's summer, sure you can try to get involved in their life but that's about 2-3 months they're not in school; are you going to hold those results over the child's head in the fall?

The idea that this time is a time to make mistakes that could be detrimental to these kids futures, health, etc is saying that we should just sit back and watch a child harm their futures and their health? That makes no sense. And these drug tests would help the child in the right direction, whether they may continue or not. The idea is to push them in the right direction, after high school, they can do whatever they want.
-So they shouldn't mess up not, their children they should know what we expect of them and they should be worrying about their future? So whether they do drugs or not or continue to drugs or not your focused on these kids while their in high-school - am I understanding that correctly? So basically the four years their in high-school is to make sure their mistakes are not detrimental to the kids future or health, but when they graduate go crazy because "we" can't help them anymore - so do whatever you want.
But just like health classes teaching teenagers that drugs are bad, drug testing is a more hands on method of helping a teenager find their way and help them learn from potential mistakes they may make with drugs.
--> I don't understand how a drug test is going to help a teenager find their way? Learn from potential mistakes they may make with drugs, mistakes they are not going to make while their in high-school because they are being watched, but mistakes they are going to have to make when they are out of school.

Something like drug testing people think can save their children or students, but it can potentially just as well ruin a child or student's life and reputation as well.
- You want me to show proof but think about it for a second, your known as the school drug addict because you failed one test, and when nobody was suppose to know it's now all over the school that would not upset a student. It's high-school they find out they tell there "best-friend" and now its all over the school. Sites like formspring and facebook you say one thing that can be misinterpreted and students have taken their lives. Being teased and bullied because you failed, and now their making you seek help or you being accused of taking drugs because you might be failing it can ruin someone's reputation. So in that sense how can reputation be irrelevant; drugs can harm a child and yet rumors about the child doing drugs or failing the drug test can harm the child as well. It was you who said THE BRAIN IS STILL DEVELOPING - doesn't a child or a teenagers self esteem develop as well.

But the idea is that drug testing will limit or prohibit the use of drugs and keep them out of the learning environment.
-Like you stated the "idea" will limit or prohibit the use of drugs and keep them out of the learning environment. The learning environment that would be school - but what about when a child leaves school? You can only control a student so much and in control I mean affect them while their in the building. As soon as they step off of the school grounds, what then? Parents and family can help, but what if they are not involved like other parents are? There are many other factors to drug testing besides it affecting the learning environment - so unless you have a way to control how a student or teen can live their life outside of that school building, drug testing a child isn't going to be a solution. Lastly drugs are not the only thing that affect a child's GPA and SAT scores, yes I will agree they can affect it but it's not the only thing a child is going through that will affect those grades so dramatically.
Debate Round No. 2
bmascolo

Pro

In regards to your statement: what about students who do not have full health coverage?
Students under 18 are under their parent/guardians health care, therefore getting a physical is no extra cost and neither is drug testing. Drug testing can be requested at a physical at no extra cost. Any antigen or drug shows up when a physician tests urine.

Just because a student may experience taking drugs after the drug test is not the point. The idea is not to control the student (like i said) because in the end they WILL make their own choices. BUT, if a student is suspected to be using drugs, they can be tested. You're jumping to conclusions saying that if someone suspects that a students grades are dropping or are low, the school system isnt gonna jump to conclusions that its drugs. Thats a false assumption. The whole point of this idea is to help the student. School systems already provide guidance to students that seek help for any problem and from experience most students do feel comfortable seeking help from other than a parent. When its summer sure a student can get involved in drugs, but like I said..... The idea is NOT to control, the idea is to help influence the student to make better choices.

Nobody is gonna hold anything over the childs head, noone will be punishing them because its not about that, in the end its only trying to help care for the childs health and future so really its not about embarassing them or making them feel uncomfortable around their peers. Most people dont advertise their problems with drugs for the simple reason that most kids don't think drugs are cool, its the addictive factor of drugs and the feeling that influences a teenager to get involved.

"I don't understand how a drug test is going to help a teenager find their way?"
Its not, once again....the drug test is providing support to the teenager. What is the school system supposed to do? Sit back and watch a child become addicted to drugs, destroying relationships with their family, friends, ruining their grades and perhaps risking their lives. Do you know how many teenagers die a year from drug overdose? Teenagers are not aware of their limits and its not about destroying a teenager or making them controlled because a mandatory drug test does not mean that they are going to be punished, they will get provided help.. disiplinary action is not always negative. Teenagers die from drug overdose and getting more involved can prevent leading to less deaths per year. http://drugwarfacts.org...

Yeah a teenagers self esteem is still developing, but how are drugs impacting their self esteem to begin with? Its a fact and proven that teenagers that take drugs have a low self esteem. If we get more involved students will feel like they have a purpose, which they do. Teenagers brains are developing as well as self esteem but drugs can only decrease both.http://alcoholism.about.com...

Anything can effect a teenagers grades but most teenagers seek help for any school problem but when teenagers are too wrapped up in other things, they can get help. Doesnt mean a school system jumps to conclusion that its drugs. Like i said, false assumption but just because that may be the case doesnt mean that it immediately is going to be the problem.

Its all about the child, and future teachers and teachers know its all about the child. Thats what you are there for and drug testing can help a student that may potentially not be aware of how risky drugs can be. When you are young you do not know much about drugs..only what you hear from people and in health class. But getting more involved in a childs life beyond school, letting them be open about personal problems or drug use. It can potentially be one less teenager that faces drug abuse and one less death from drug overdose. The whole point is to be there for the child, no matter what the case is and make them more aware that drugs are not a joke by addressing potential problems teenagers may face.
mghee188

Con

Yes the child is covered under the parent's health care, but you then face the problem they are under 18.
Drug testing can be requested at a physical at no extra cost. Any antigen or drug shows up when a physician tests urine.
-So it's up to the parent whether or not they want their child drug tested. The school can ultimately ask the parents if they can, but it up to the parents.

Also your saying that drug testing your NOT trying to control the student's, but you are trying to control their decisions. And you are also making a false assumption that the school isn't going to hold it over their heads, how are you positive that each school that is going to drug test is not going to use it against a student; you can't be positive, so you yourself are making a false assumption. Your also assuming that just because you drug test students you will be influencing the students to make more positive decisions. I quote what you said in an earlier round, " The idea is to push them in the right direction, after high school, they can do whatever they want." Your making an assumption that drug testing them will push them in the right direction - how can you be positive, you can't be?

Nobody is going to hold anything over the child's head, no one will be punishing them because its not about that, in the end its only trying to help care for the child's health and future so really its not about embarrassing them or making them feel uncomfortable around their peers. Most people don't advertise their problems with drugs for the simple reason that most kids don't think drugs are cool, its the addictive factor of drugs and the feeling that influences a teenager to get involved.
-Where did you get this information from? I'm not saying drugs are cool, but how do you know what teenagers are thinking? There has to be some reason drugs are right below teen obesity in schools. The addictive factor? A child is not going to wake up one morning and decide hm I think I'd like to try drugs today, so I'm not sure where your getting the information that the addictive factor and feeling is influencing them.

"I don't understand how a drug test is going to help a teenager find their way?"
Its not, once again....the drug test is providing support to the teenager. What is the school system supposed to do? Sit back and watch a child become addicted to drugs, destroying relationships with their family, friends, ruining their grades and perhaps risking their lives.
- No if any students was showing signs like that the school gets involved but drug testing each student ASSUMING this can happen to them, their family, and life. A school steps in before this can possibly happen. You would have to see a decline in a student's participation and attentiveness before it possibly ruined their life; that's taking it to the extremes. Realistically it would take a a few months before their life down-spirals like you are assuming.

Yeah a teenagers self esteem is still developing, but how are drugs impacting their self esteem to begin with?
If Anything can effect a teenagers grades but most teenagers seek help for any school problem but when teenagers are too wrapped up in other things, they can get help. Doesn't mean a school system jumps to conclusion that its drugs. Like I said, false assumption but just because that may be the case doesn't mean that it immediately is going to be the problem.
-How to drugs affect or impact their self esteem the same way alcohol does, they smoke they drink and in those couple of hours they feel confident - they don't have to worry about who they are or what they are doing. School's do jump to a conclusion you notice a girl is more confident, and a guy is more cocky people start to question why? It is just a part of human nature; questioning!

Its all about the child, and future teachers and teachers know its all about the child. That's what you are there for and drug testing can help a student that may potentially not be aware of how risky drugs can be. When you are young you do not know much about drugs..only what you hear from people and in health class. But getting more involved in a child's life beyond school, letting them be open about personal problems or drug use. It can potentially be one less teenager that faces drug abuse and one less death from drug overdose. The whole point is to be there for the child, no matter what the case is and make them more aware that drugs are not a joke by addressing potential problems teenagers may face.
- I agree that teenagers should address their problem, but what makes you think they are going to be more open in sharing this. Let's think about this they are 16 and 17 year old kids who think their way is the right way, also no matter what adults say their wrong because we don't know what there going through. They do learn the potential problems what happens if they continue drinking and smoking and popping pills - we all learn the horror stories, and everybody thinks NO IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN TO ME! We have them for eight hours of a day and then their free how do you plan on implementing strategies outside of school, it sounds like a good plan but you can't make a kid want to learn more.

I'm not saying we shouldn't try to educate them more on the potential dangers, but implementing something such as drug testing is not going to solve the problem of teens using drugs.
Debate Round No. 3
bmascolo

Pro

So it's up to the parent whether or not they want their child drug tested. The school can ultimately ask the parents if they can, but it up to the parents.
- Physicals are required for some jobs and schools in order to attend. It would be no different, a parent can't say no to a school or job demanding a physical, so they would not be able to say no to a drug test if thats what the school is asking for. Thats like saying no i'm not getting an immunization when its required to attend school.

Where did you get this information from? I'm not saying drugs are cool, but how do you know what teenagers are thinking? There has to be some reason drugs are right below teen obesity in schools. The addictive factor? A child is not going to wake up one morning and decide hm I think I'd like to try drugs today, so I'm not sure where your getting the information that the addictive factor and feeling is influencing them.
-Where am I getting this from? I've learned it many times in health classes and I'm citing all my sources used whereI'm getting my information. (http://www.yic.gov...) The addictive factor is what leads to drug abuse, and the feeling that people get from drugs are why they get addicted. (http://www.schickshadel.com...) From that source, "The body's normal production of chemicals in the brain, which ordinarily produce feelings of pleasure, are suppressed; as this occurs the brain is sent into a state of depression. The body physically demands more of the drug to go back to "normal" and feel good again."

No if any students was showing signs like that the school gets involved but drug testing each student ASSUMING this can happen to them, their family, and life. A school steps in before this can possibly happen. You would have to see a decline in a student's participation and attentiveness before it possibly ruined their life; that's taking it to the extremes. Realistically it would take a a few months before their life down-spirals like you are assuming.
-It doesn't have to be like that, school systems monitor childrens behavior to begin with, it would be no different some schools search for drugs too, so going more in depth and having drug tests does help the child in many ways. Any family problems such as abuse, etc schools also get involved. Drug abuse would be no different. Im not assuming anything, Its not like the school is gonna be jumping down students throats about drugs, its not always gonna be drugs. So therefore, I am not assuming and neither would the school system. Chances are if a student is taking drugs, there are many signs to look for and becoming certified to be a teacher, you are taught these things especially in secondary education. I don't see why you think a child testing positive for a drug test will "RUIN" their life, thats honestly a huge exaggeration and not true at all. If they become addicted to drugs, that will ruin their life. So whats worse? A school system protecting their students and help demonstrate why preventing drug use is important. Health classes obviously aren't helping get rid of problems with drugs, so things should be taken further.

How to drugs affect or impact their self esteem the same way alcohol does, they smoke they drink and in those couple of hours they feel confident - they don't have to worry about who they are or what they are doing. School's do jump to a conclusion you notice a girl is more confident, and a guy is more cocky people start to question why? It is just a part of human nature; questioning!
-Ok, question, where are you getting the information that drugs make you feel confident? That is not the case at all, drugs do not make someone confident. The "confident" feeling you referring to is not confidence it is pleasure that is caused by the chemical imbalance, when a person takes drugs they get a feeling of pleasure, but once it wears of leads to irritability and depression---which is why most teenagers don't just take drugs once to "try". Trying leads to trying again, and again and then leading to more dangerous hazards such as drug addiction and dependence the body forms.

We all learn the horror stories, and everybody thinks NO IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN TO ME! We have them for eight hours of a day and then their free how do you plan on implementing strategies outside of school, it sounds like a good plan but you can't make a kid want to learn more.
-Yeah but thats what you learn everyday from hearing these horror stories, that it easily could happen to anyone. And yeah eight hours a day and theres no plans to implement strategies for outside of school. School is all about learning, so teaching students more about drugs and its dangers by implementing drug testing would help schools limit drug use.

We already educate them about potential dangers, thats why health classes address and teach about drugs. Teaching students about drugs obviously is not enough. What are we supposed to do? Sit back and watch teenagers who are not mature enough engage in something that they are not fully aware about and are not prepared with the dangers that come with it. Yeah it would solve some problems with teens using drugs, if they are gonna get so "embarrassed" like you said about drug testing don't you think they would not do it? If parents and school systems are getting involved, do you really think a child would keep doing something, they are under 18 they are not gonna risk their relationship with their parents because more than likely a parent isn't gonna sit back. They are gonna take action. Its not an assumption, like i said the school is not gonna assume that they are on drugs if they are acting different one day, never once did i say that. But taking drugs there are physical signs that one can see. I stand by my case that drug testing will help the drug problems in school.
mghee188

Con

Physicals are required for some jobs and schools in order to attend. It would be no different, a parent can't say no to a school or job demanding a physical, so they would not be able to say no to a drug test if that's what the school is asking for. That's like saying no I'm not getting an immunization when its required to attend school.
-Except we are not talking about a job, that is a different topic. Why couldn't a parent say no to a school or job? Drug testing is different then immunization shot. Immunization shots besides protecting that particular student make sure the entire school is not at risk; workers and students as well. So now your making this a state regulated law; with that what problem comes with the results, confidentiality, and also what about kits students can take to make sure their drug test comes out positive?

Where am I getting this from? I've learned it many times in health classes and I'm citing all my sources used where I'm getting my information. (http://www.yic.gov......) The addictive factor is what leads to drug abuse, and the feeling that people get from drugs are why they get addicted. (http://www.schickshadel.com......) From that source, "The body's normal production of chemicals in the brain, which ordinarily produce feelings of pleasure, are suppressed; as this occurs the brain is sent into a state of depression. The body physically demands more of the drug to go back to "normal" and feel good again."
- In your health classes I feel is not a source we could use, everybody can be taught something different. It is not world-wide what we learn in health classes; for example Catholic schools preach abstinence and many other schools push the idea of frightening the students. You also mentioned the pleasure feeling the students get from taking these drugs in an earlier round, and now you saying that pleasure feeling is suppressed; wouldn't that be contradicting? One time is not going to make the student want to go back for another round. Like you used your health class, I learned in my drug class the first time students do drugs their body is likely to reject them; its a foreign substance, the student has to be willing to do it again and again. Like I said myself we are all don't learn the same things in school.

It doesn't have to be like that, school systems monitor children's behavior to begin with, it would be no different some schools search for drugs too, so going more in depth and having drug tests does help the child in many ways. Any family problems such as abuse, etc schools also get involved. Drug abuse would be no different. I'm not assuming anything, Its not like the school is going to be jumping down students throats about drugs, its not always going to be drugs. So therefore, I am not assuming and neither would the school system. Chances are if a student is taking drugs, there are many signs to look for and becoming certified to be a teacher, you are taught these things especially in secondary education. I don't see why you think a child testing positive for a drug test will "RUIN" their life, that's honestly a huge exaggeration and not true at all. If they become addicted to drugs, that will ruin their life. So what's worse? A school system protecting their students and help demonstrate why preventing drug use is important. Health classes obviously aren't helping get rid of problems with drugs, so things should be taken further.
- A school would have to have adequate proof to search for drugs, if you search for drugs what is the school expecting to find? No it's not exaggerating that drug testing can ruin a student's life, after those drug test come in and that child plays a sport will they be able to continue, can they participate in school events or are they on probation. Drugs can ruin a child's life, but the results from the drug test can ultimately ruin their reputation. Health classes aren't getting rid of drugs, so drug testing is going to be the final solution - if it is not drugs I guarantee it will be another substance.
Oh I know that you learn about these warning signs, and the first thing you learn after you learn these warning signs is not to jump to conclusions, and not to jump to a solution because ultimately you don't know the full scenario or story.

Ok, question, where are you getting the information that drugs make you feel confident? That is not the case at all, drugs do not make someone confident. The "confident" feeling you referring to is not confidence it is pleasure that is caused by the chemical imbalance, when a person takes drugs they get a feeling of pleasure, but once it wears of leads to irritability and depression---which is why most teenagers don't just take drugs once to "try". Trying leads to trying again, and again and then leading to more dangerous hazards such as drug addiction and dependence the body forms.
-Wasn't it in your first opening statement you said when a child takes drugs it suppresses this "pleasure" feeling. Does it suppress it when they take the drugs or is it when they come off of it.

Yeah but that's what you learn everyday from hearing these horror stories, that it easily could happen to anyone. And yeah eight hours a day and there's no plans to implement strategies for outside of school. School is all about learning, so teaching students more about drugs and its dangers by implementing drug testing would help schools limit drug use.
-Yes it could easily happen to anyone, except these students like I said in the earlier round they don't think its going to happen to them. How does implementing drug testing teach student's more about drugs, drug testing is not going to add an extra hour to the school day.

We already educate them about potential dangers, that's why health classes address and teach about drugs. Teaching students about drugs obviously is not enough. What are we supposed to do? Sit back and watch teenagers who are not mature enough engage in something that they are not fully aware about and are not prepared with the dangers that come with it. Yeah it would solve some problems with teens using drugs, if they are going to get so "embarrassed" like you said about drug testing don't you think they would not do it? If parents and school systems are getting involved, do you really think a child would keep doing something, they are under 18 they are not gonna risk their relationship with their parents because more than likely a parent isn't gonna sit back. They are gonna take action. Its not an assumption, like I said the school is not gonna assume that they are on drugs if they are acting different one day, never once did I say that. But taking drugs there are physical signs that one can see. I stand by my case that drug testing will help the drug problems in school.
-Except here is the problem with that well written paragraph. Whether you educate them or not how can you be positive they are not going to try it, and how can you sit back and watch them especially after 2 or 3p.m they leave to go home. Many students or teens are rebellious at this time how can you be positive there not gonna risk their relationship with their parents; you can't be sure how the child's relationship with his parents is before hand. Also on the home topic in this day how can you be positive a parent is even home, parents can work two or three jobs to make sure they can pay bills and buy food. Today in this day you can't be sure what is going on in a student's home life that they do not put out even for the school to know, that's the one thing they are more likely to hide. I stand by my case that drug testing is not going to help the student's with their education like you are hoping for.
Debate Round No. 4
bmascolo

Pro

Except we are not talking about a job, that is a different topic. Why couldn't a parent say no to a school or job? Drug testing is different then immunization shot. Immunization shots besides protecting that particular student make sure the entire school is not at risk; workers and students as well. So now your making this a state regulated law; with that what problem comes with the results, confidentiality, and also what about kits students can take to make sure their drug test comes out positive?
-Youre honestly making so many assumptions throughout your argument. Its gonna have to be state regulated because a school can't just do something without it being approved by the state. But I'm saying a parent cannot deny a school of a physical because a student is required to have a physical to attend much like some jobs ask for a physical for a person to work for them. And with the kits students can take to make sure their drug test comes out positive, Where are you getting this from?

And I cited my sources for why drugs are used and if you are reading any of them you would notice that it clearly states why teenagers turn to drugs. Its not contradicting at all, you are not reading information correctly. The body is suppressed after drugs wear off, which is why it leads to depression, no confidence comes from drugs whatsoever as you stated previously so i don't know where you are getting your information from.

How does a student see peers around them suffering from drug abuse or dying from overdose and not think that it could happen to anyone? Implementing drug tests serves as a model to the student how important it is to test for drugs to prevent future issues that come with drugs. Such as depression, anxiety, dependence, etc. Just like the military, they have no tolerance for the use of drugs, much like jobs and why can't schools have no tolerance? Schools at least care for the children by looking out for their health and education. "Using the U.S. military's policy of random drug testing and zero tolerance, we find that a strict employer anti-drug program is a highly effective means of deterring illicit drug use among current users as well as potential users."(http://www.nber.org...)This site is supported by the government as well. So the government supports jobs drug testing and schools are allowed to drug search so i'm sure if the drug use keeps continuing the way it is, sooner or later some policy is going to be implemented to help prevent drug use amongst teenagers.

You're assuming from my argument that just because I think drug testing will help the problems with drugs that they wont try it. Thats not the problem, the problem is that more than likely when a teenager tries drugs once, they try it again. Drug addiction is not easily to overcome but the dependence of drugs happens rapidly due to the chemical imbalance it causes in the brain. What kind of child would risk getting kicked out, etc from their parents. And yeah parents are busy but a parent is never to busy to care for their child and I know their may be some parents out there that let kids do what ever they want but thats not the point im making. The school systems getting involved CAN fill that void. They can help, not just drug testing but like i said schools aren't gonna jump down a childs throat but really help them with programs, consueling and the testing.

Cited from a government website:
"Schools that have adopted random student drug testing are hoping to decrease drug abuse among students via two routes. First, schools that conduct testing hope that random testing will serve as a deterrent, and give students a reason to resist peer pressure to take drugs. Secondly, drug testing can identity adolescents who have started using drugs so that interventions can occur early, or identify adolescents who already have drug problems, so they can be referred for treatment. Drug abuse not only interferes with a student's ability to learn, but it can also disrupt the teaching environment, affecting other students as well."(http://www.nida.nih.gov...)

This idea isn't unheard of, some schools already conduct it, the point is.. Teenagers are young and yeah they are prone to making mistakes--some in which parents and teachers cannot prevent but drug use is not one of them. There are many ways to prevent drug use, one of them being drug testing but also include positive role models having discussion and inforcing rules and schools can get more involved. If they can get involved with child abuse that could be occurring in their childs life, they can get involved with potential drug use. I am firm that drug testing is going to deter a student from engaging in drugs--preventing abuse and even bigger..overdose. If the military requires drug testing, employers require drug testing, it is VERY likely for schools to start drug testing (as stated above) as an effective way to prevent problems with drugs in the school environment. THAT BEING THE ARGUMENT..nowhere in the argument is anything saying there are going to be ways to stop what the child does after they leave school which is easily spotted as a presupposition in your argument.

http://www.meditests.com...
mghee188

Con

You're honestly making so many assumptions throughout your argument. Its gonna have to be state regulated because a school can't just do something without it being approved by the state. But I'm saying a parent cannot deny a school of a physical because a student is required to have a physical to attend much like some jobs ask for a physical for a person to work for them. And with the kits students can take to make sure their drug test comes out positive, Where are you getting this from?
-Actually I am not making any assumptions, I am trying to correct your assumptions. Yes a school does ask for a physical, but I was making the point that a child goes for a physical and in that physical if a parent does not want to drug test their child they can't attend school? http://www.alwaystestclean.com... That website along with many other ones have kits, and pills you can take to make sure you can pass a drug test.

And I cited my sources for why drugs are used and if you are reading any of them you would notice that it clearly states why teenagers turn to drugs. Its not contradicting at all, you are not reading information correctly. The body is suppressed after drugs wear off, which is why it leads to depression, no confidence comes from drugs whatsoever as you stated previously so I don't know where you are getting your information from.
-http://www.avert.org... This site right there if you read it talks about how drugs make them get energy, they take them as a stimulant. I did read the information I was talking about you said one thing in one round then switched it in another; I was only trying to clear up which idea you were following.

How does a student see peers around them suffering from drug abuse or dying from overdose and not think that it could happen to anyone?
-Excuse me it is actually quite easy. I graduated from a high-school where many kids in my school either died from drugs or alcohol; and right after they were partying and back to the life. It affected someone in their life and not them, yes some have the abilities to realize it and others honestly don't care. So drug testing can yes potentially help students, but others aren't going to care; there going to see it as another test that they don't care whether they pass or fail - then what are the teachers and schools suppose to do?

The school systems getting involved CAN fill that void. They can help, not just drug testing but like I said schools aren't gonna jump down a child's throat but really help them with programs, counseling and the testing.
- Many parent's don't care for their children, they are more pre-occupied with their own life; look at the rates of children who are in foster care now because of their parents not caring. http://www.ocfs.state.ny.us... That website you can see they have risen in the past couple of years. Also with the programs in the school high-school's now have YFS (youth family services) that can help the students, but that's only if the students want help; the program is their for them, they have it available they are reminded their in the building and they don't judge - but still student's don't go.

Cited from a government website:
"Schools that have adopted random student drug testing are hoping to decrease drug abuse among students via two routes. First, schools that conduct testing hope that random testing will serve as a deterrent, and give students a reason to resist peer pressure to take drugs. Secondly, drug testing can identity adolescents who have started using drugs so that interventions can occur early, or identify adolescents who already have drug problems, so they can be referred for treatment. Drug abuse not only interferes with a student's ability to learn, but it can also disrupt the teaching environment, affecting other students as well."(http://www.nida.nih.gov......)

- I like that website quite a lot, and I like that source but right in the first sentence they "hope". Their hoping that if they implement these drug tests the good that can come from that - but they can't be positive it's going to work. These interventions though outside of school or inside of school, because once again the school has to be careful with confidentiality. It can affect the teaching environment especially if the teacher or other student's are concerned but like I said in an earlier round that's when the school is suppose to step in; and like I also said in and earlier round it is not going to happen overnight where they can disrupt a classroom right away - it is going to happen gradually where they can notice the change in the student and their behavior.

I would like to thank you for debating with me. The points you made were very clear, and your sources seemed accurate, except I still stand by my belief that drug testing is not going to help. I understand your argument and the fact you would like to help the students, before they potentially ruin their future but it is up to them to really stop; their the ones taking the drugs they have to be the ones accepting the help that is offered - what is that saying you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. A student is going to have to want to help themselves and the family and friends are going to be supportive of whatever they are going through. Plus we won't be able to be really sure of what the school is going to hold the kids accountable for when the test results come in; for example if they try something once is the school going to label them for the rest of their stay in that school. It's hard to say but you can't really be sure what the school is going to truly think of the student's results; a child on the principle's honor roll does drugs - will they think less of him, we can't be sure.

Thanks for the debate!!
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by AverySchlacter32 3 years ago
AverySchlacter32
Thanks for this I've been looking into this a lot and I think it would prevent kids from doing drugs in the future and prevent addiction. My friend recently got out of a center that really helped her but it was a long challenging battle with drugs and addiction that all started in school. http://www.olalla.org...
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
bmascolomghee188Tied
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Total points awarded:23 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro used far better sources, but con's argument on cost won it for me. Yes pro attempted to say it wasn't that expensive, but such ignores the number of students, so the refutation failed.