The Instigator
Youredone82
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
TheShaun
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Should the Government be allowed to put a visual descriptor on sex offenders passports

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/13/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 353 times Debate No: 86553
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (0)

 

Youredone82

Con

The government very sneakily passed a very expensive and bad legislation that will put a visual descriptor on passports of "registered sex offenders" stating its to protect the children of other nations fromf child and sexual tourism.
This is an affront to the rights of any individual and once we start to become indifferent to the mistreatment of any class of people we have lost our humanity. We need to all stick together and tell the politicians while we want our children safe and to prevent sexual assaults and tourism, making certain individuals wear a badge identifying them is wrong.
TheShaun

Pro

Sex offenders lost their rights to privacy when they assaulted people in one of the most heinous ways possible. It's called punishment. You are basically advocating escape from punishment. Not only should they be permanently labelled, but you also should be permanently labelled as a supporter of sex offenders. They do not deserve any rights or protection. You almost don't either for defending them.
Debate Round No. 1
Youredone82

Con

The Shaun, which one of the vile and disgusting sex offenders are you speaking of? Is it the man who raped and killed John Walsh's son, because you have no argument from me. Or is it the 17 year old who has consensual sex with his 16 year old girlfriend. Perhaps it is the 6, 7, and 8 year olds on the registry for playing doctor? Maybe the married couple who has sex on a beach, or the drunk guy who peed in public? No I got it your after the cheerleader who took a inappropriate photo of herself and text it to her boyfriend making him in possession of child porn and her a maker of child porn.. The biggest problem with the registry is that it encompasses so many people who don't belong on it that you cant start giving away their basic human rights.
And on another point you stated. You said that they "want to get out of punishment" that's not true, the majority of offenders have served their sentences, so in a word have had their punishment. This would be an EX Post Facto punishment, which would be a violation of the constitution on the US. The very same document that allows us to freely and civically express our opinions in this forum , granted some more eloquent and articulate then others. Once you start down a road of removing ones basic rights under the constitution where do you stop, gays, blacks, trans-gender's. Its a very slippery slope, and we must use extreme caution before we take a step.
TheShaun

Pro

First, a 17 year old with a 16 is legal. Kids being kids by "playing doctor" is not illegal either. Each state has their own age limit. The most common I've seen is there has to be a 4 year age difference while one is below 16 years old and the other is above 16 years old.

Everyone else you mentioned broke the law and that comes with consequences. If they don't want to be punished, then they shouldn't break the law.

You say that majority of sex offenders have served their sentences. In my opinion, they haven't served enough. They should endure punishment for the rest of their lives. That's subjective though. Putting them on a list is part of protecting potential future victims. Criminals can not be trusted to not break the law again.

When it comes to people who commit crimes, screw the constitution. They made their choice even though they knew it was wrong.

Being gay, black, or transgender is not a crime. So, that is irrelevant. They might be treated differently than other people by other individuals, but a person should not have to avoid offending them just cause they're part of a "special group".

You mention people having their basic rights removed. They removed their own rights when they chose to break the rules that go along with their rights. If you can't abide by the rules, then you deserve to lose the rights that come with them. You can not have rights without rules.
Debate Round No. 2
Youredone82

Con

The Shaun, you are severely under informed my man. the reason I brought up kids playing doctor and 17 year olds with 16 year olds is because there are cases of them on the registry. If you don't believe me google tales from the registry or mothers against the registry. You cant just toss out facts because they make a very damaging blow to your argument. And did you say you were cool with a high school girl being charged with making child porn for taking a picture of herself? That's just insanity, as you put it kids should be able to be kids. They should be reprimanded, they should be corrected but in no way does anyone under 18, belong on the registry. And you are right most states do have differing laws, so if the legal age of consent is 14 like it is in Georgia, and a 30 year old sleeps with her in your opinion that fine, because he didn't "break and laws" however if he does this is New Jersey he's a villainous pig and deserves swift and capital punishment? How about the fact that even if the kids are the same age the majority of the time only the male gets charged with the offense while the female is always the victim, even in consensual settings.

You mentioned that "All criminals cant be trusted to not break the law again" have you seen any of the DOJ statistics on the recidivism rates for sex offenders? They are at about 2.4 percent. they are lower the every other type of crime except murder, and that's only because most murderers are in jail so long they are old if they ever get out and most die in prison.
Additionally, have you ever seen any of the individual state, independent organization or federal DOJ facts that show that the registry in fact does not work, and actually is counter productive because the public shaming it does makes it impossible for people to get jobs and find homes. which makes them more likely to break laws to survive.

This is not something new, in the turn of the century mobsters and bootleggers were the scum of the earth in peoples eyes, in the midst we had Germany, then Russians, communists, then the drug users of the 70's and 80's. people used to say a drug user needed to be put away for life because their was no cure, now we know that its an addiction which is a disease. Now more people get treatment then jail and it works. no court, no prison, and re-offense rates are down.
You want sex offense re-offense's down, phone your local politician, tell them that the registry does not work, tell them that the registry should be for the top 1% of offenders, and all violent or predatory offenses.
but they wont ever do anything about it, because jail, the registry and everything else, its all a money making scheme.

And once again I will reiterate you cant continually punish one population of law breakers because of your own preconceived notions. A sentence from a judge is a legally binding contract, if we allow the government to alter that contract whenever they see fit, what sort of prescient are we setting. That's the real danger with democracy, once we sit idly by and watch the government take away our basic rights under the constitution we have lost our democracy. You say its only criminals so who cares, well what happens when they come for your home because they need it, or your family members because of some reason. what about when they start censoring our speech, our TV, shut down the internet, and put us into a police state. The constitution is applicable to all people because our founding fathers knew what we could not allow any government they put in place have too much power over anything for any period of time, because that's when power starts to corrupt. The last know civilization known to mark people like this was Nazi Germany in the holocaust, do you want to live there?
TheShaun

Pro

"You cant just toss out facts because they make a very damaging blow to your argument." And you can't treat rare flukes as if they are common. It's a war on crime and war comes with casualties.

"That's just insanity". It's illegal. Get over it.

"in no way does anyone under 18, belong on the registry." Sure, let's not punish a few people over technicalities which could cause the more harsh criminals to believe they can create loopholes for themselves as well. The bigger criminals seeing the lesser ones catching such harsh punishment is more persuasive for them to refrain for such actions. It's a war on crime and war comes with casualties.

The different ages were selected for different locations based the average maturity level of kids for that area. In some areas the average maturity level is higher and was agreed upon to be high enough to be fairly trusted to make decisions about sex. So, based on your example, a 14 year old from New Jersey on average is not mature enough to to be trusted with such decisions while a 14 year old from Georgia is.

"They are at about 2.4 percent." Technically, that's just the repeaters that got caught again. The number is higher when you consider the ones that learned how to not get caught again. Also, the victims of that reported 2.4 percent would have really appreciated it if we were harsher towards their attackers so that they might not have become another victim.

"which makes them more likely to break laws to survive." And exactly how does raping and molesting help someone survive? The closest way would be that it gets them arrested and now they get 3 free meals and shelter. Though, it increases their chances of being murdered by other inmates that don't take too kindly to people who touch kids.

Drug users aren't helpful to you, they partake in victimless crimes.

"tell them that the registry does not work" That's your opinion.

"its all a money making scheme." It's a war on crime, wars cost money.

"government take away our basic rights under the constitution". The criminals took them from themselves. They made their choice and broke the rules that you must abide by in order to maintain rights and freedoms.

"what happens when they come for your home because they need it". Yeah I'm sure they really need a small house in a poor neighborhood.

"what about when they start censoring our speech, our TV, shut down the internet, and put us into a police state". And guess what would end up causing that? Too many criminals cause they weren't scared straight.

"The constitution is applicable to all people". That's your opinion. In my opinion, criminals don't deserve any constitutional rights.

"The last know civilization known to mark people like this was Nazi Germany". Marking a group of people due to racism instead of criminal activity is not equal to marking people convicted of heinous crimes. It doesn't help your point.

"do you want to live there?" Wouldn't have to. I know how to walk, swim, climb, etc and they can't watch every inch of the border.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by TheShaun 1 year ago
TheShaun
"Once again shaun, your argument has no statistics, no facts." Pay attention, numbnuts. I just told you that I deliberately exaggerated the detail in order to drive the point home. I don't see you providing anything that proves less than majority of sexual offenses were victimless crimes. So, my point before I exaggerated it still stands.

"Get an education man. Your ignorence is staggering." Says the hypocrite that also doesn't have anything to prove "theire are more deserving people on the registry then non deserving" wrong and misspells often.

"I defent people because no one else will"? Well, I "defend" the innocent.

"everyone deserves a second chance." That's subjective. Pure opinion.

"Look at the police officer whos gun accidentally went off"? Why wasn't it in it's holster? Why wasn't the safety on? Why was it pointing at someone? Even if he didn't intend to shoot anyone, he made foolish mistakes that lead to that outcome. He is still at fault.

"the real world is calling" I know, I gave them your number. You should really answer that.

"Get out frkm under your rock" I don't own a rock.

"stop being scared of the sun its not a god" I have no reason to fear a mass of burning gas in space when it is stable enough to not produce any danger to me other than sunburn. And of course it's not a god, I just told you what it is.

"get out of the stone age." You mean one of the ages where a person could easily get away with rape and molestation due to the low moral standards of primitive humans? I've never lived there. I live in an age where we mark you for life so that everyone knows what you are and keeps their kids away from you.

I'm beginning to suspect you are on the sex offenders list yourself and can't handle your punishment.
Posted by Youredone82 1 year ago
Youredone82
Once again shaun, your argument has no statistics, no facts. You toss out that theire are more deserving people on the registry then non deserving, and you base this on what? How many of the " deserving people" vs undeserving people are there?
Get an education man.
Your ignorence is staggering.
I defent people because no one else will and everyone deserves a second chance. You say you dont care because you would never break a law. Well for your sake i hope thats never a reality. Because in this world you dont have to set out to break a law to become a criminal. Look at the police officer whos gun accidentally went off in the hiusing project in Brooklyn. Did he wake up saying today im going to murder someone? No but it happened and now 25 years of his life and a felony tag are upon him.
Wake up man the real world is calling
Get out frkm under your rock stop being scared of the sun its not a god and get out of the stone age..
Posted by TheShaun 1 year ago
TheShaun
@Youredone82 First, you need to understand how exaggerating a detail in order to drive a point home works. The point is that most belong there and the few innocent ones just caught a hand that sucks. Life sucks and then you die.

"Once again you are making presumptive and ignorant statements without anything other then your cognitive distortions to guide you." That's your opinion.

"calm your emotions down". Lmao. That's a good one.

"the registry does little to change the outcome". Those victims it does save are really appreciative for even that small difference.

"make a new decision your is old and outdated." How about you make a new decision and stop being such a wuss towards rapist and molesters.

"calling someone stupid". Technically, I called your actions stupid. Intelligent people make stupid or foolish mistakes too sometimes. If you were as intelligent as you think you are, you would have understood how that concept works.

"unintelligent and inarticulate". Says the person who doesn't consider that intelligent people can make stupid choices too and didn't recognize how that statement was clearly about a person's actions, not overall intelligence.

"sort of like a school yard bully." Lmao. Another good one. Yeah I'm really sure that people consider a person a bully for strongly standing by rules put in place to protect victims. Nice logic there.
Posted by Youredone82 1 year ago
Youredone82
The Shaun once again you are under informed, please don't toss out statistics like 99 percent of offenders are justly on the registry. Please do your homework first. Visit tales from the registry or mothers against the registry. There is a far greater number then 1% wrongly on the registry. And isn't even 1% too large a population wrongly on the registry, where is their justice.
Once again you are making presumptive and ignorant statements without anything other then your cognitive distortions to guide you. calm your emotions down and get some facts behind your argument, it doesn't hold water. The fact is that some states even now have district attorneys, sheriffs, and the people who are charged with "monitoring" sex offenders saying that the registry does little to change the outcome of sexual offences.
Get some facts
read them
make a new decision your is old and outdated.
And calling someone stupid just because they have a varying opinion is your right under our constitution which I love, but makes you seem sort of unintelligent and inarticulate. sort of like a school yard bully.
Posted by TheShaun 1 year ago
TheShaun
It's pretty stupid that Youredone82 is defending all sex offenders just cause a few people get labelled as one due to the law deeming them as one for lesser crimes. 99% of registered sex offenders are rapists or molesters. That last 1% just got dealt a bad hand in life. Though, we can not go easy on the majority that deserves harsh punishment just cause a few dummies screwed up and got themselves on the list too.
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