The Instigator
DiogenestheDog
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Yeshuaad30
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Should the U.S. Arm Ukraine?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/10/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 611 times Debate No: 69787
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

DiogenestheDog

Pro

Question is straightforward and relevant to ongoing global events.

State your rational for your position. I will make my arguments in R2.

Please don't argue semantics.
Yeshuaad30

Con

Honestly I don't think we should be any means arm the Ukraine. I think that If we arm the Ukraine we give Russia a reason to start another cold war. Honestly the way I see it is that Russia wanting control of the Ukraine could be an attempt for them to try to reform the Soviet Union. Yes there were several more countries but for all we know this could be just the beginning. Honestly I think as a country, we need to mind our own business and not worry about what's going on in the rest of the world for once, we should fix our problems here before we even think about going somewhere else and fixing a problem. We already have had tension with Russia since the 50's/60's so i don't think we should test the waters by helping a country that they oppose otherwise we may be next.
Debate Round No. 1
DiogenestheDog

Pro

My opponents opening argument contains two primary elements.
1) isolationism
2) fear of escalation

I will attempt to address both point while making my own arguments.

Isolationism is an impossible and unrealistic option in the globalized interconnected world of today. More than ever things that happen on the other side of the world are a serious and real impact on our lives at home. Especially when it comes it major issues of geopolitical power. The world is a grand game of chess that is being played whether you are sitting at the table or not. We can ill afford to take on an isolationist policy that proved a failure for all the 1920/1930s and would only certainly be only a larger failure today.

Isolationism would leave the world to be dominated by the likes of Russia and China. Overtime a new Soviet Union with a new empowered Chinese ally could have the ability to cause massive devaluation of the dollar, impoverish the US, and destroy our way of life. As well as threaten the democratic international order and make this hybrid/covert warfare we see in Ukraine the new norm and manner in which they try and setup new empires. The economic and political position of US requires us to protect the global order we built. An order that has ushered in the greatest era of development in human history. Thus we cannot be isolationist not now, or ever.

My opponents second point is fear of escalation, or fear of a "new Cold War."

I have three arguments on this point,

1) Russia has already unilaterally escalated again and again.

2) Russia created a form of war that threatens the entire global order and must be responded to.

3) Because the US, and the world, must avoid a new cold war the formation of a new Soviet Union must be halted in Ukraine. By allowing Russia to conquer Ukraine a new de facto soviet empire will be born which will be in conflict with the US one way or another regardless of whether we arm Ukraine.

Point 1; it should already be clear that Russia has escalated the war in Ukraine multiple times. Such that the US arming the Ukrainians would mean there is little escalation Russia could respond with other than outright declaring war on Ukraine since Russia already sent their best weapons and soldiers into Ukraine. I argue that the reason why Russia has escalated so much in Ukraine is simply because there has been no consequence for them for doing so. By arming Ukraine we will introduce a real consequence for them of the only type Putin really understands.

Also let it be clear Russia cannot invade Ukraine, there are huge diplomatic and economic problems that make it near impossible. For starters that would destroy Russia's ability to supply Europe with gas, which would drive the Europeans the the strongest possible opposition to Russia and destroy Russia's resource export economy overnight. And the global diplomatic response would have to be akin to something like the US invading Mexico.

By escalating so far Putin has left himself no real options going forward.

Point 2; the nature of the hybrid war Russia has launched in Ukraine has extremely grave implications for future world peace. It allows countries to invade others in a manner so brazen and openly expansionist it has not been seem in Europe since WWII, or most of the world world since the Iran-Iraq war. Moreover the rational of Russian involvement in Ukraine completely parallels that of a Hitler in Czechoslovakia and Poland.

By allowing Putin to violate norms, laws, and borders in Ukraine we send a signal to other aggressive dictators one and in the future, be they Chinese or otherwise, that they could and maybe should attempt the same style of warfare to push their agenda. We must set an example in Ukraine that dispels this notion or it will haunt us. Putin's sinister brand of hybrid war is something we must put in its grave in Ukraine. Or watch the same foreign funded terrorist groups take control of capital buildings for years to come,

Point 3; my opponent mentions opposing Russia in Ukraine would create a new Cold War. I propose the opposite, that failure to oppose Russia in Ukraine is much more likely to create a Cold War.

If Russia were to form a new superpower bloc it would be involved in a new Cold War with the US whether we opposed them in Ukraine or not. We are, the the most fundamental sense, rivals. Both based on history and based on strategic realities. The best way to avoid a Cold War is thus to avoid the recreation of a new soviet type power bloc that could challenge the US to such a conflict. And the best way to avoid the recreation of such a bloc would be to support the rights and freedom of Ukrainians against Russian oppression.

Moreover, opposing the creation of a power bloc based on dictatorship, corruption, and imperial ambition of the Russian variety should be a clear moral and ethical imperative for most people.
Yeshuaad30

Con

Yeshuaad30 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
DiogenestheDog

Pro

DiogenestheDog forfeited this round.
Yeshuaad30

Con

Yeshuaad30 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
DiogenestheDog

Pro

DiogenestheDog forfeited this round.
Yeshuaad30

Con

Yeshuaad30 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Jonnykelly 2 years ago
Jonnykelly
People are afraid that the US and Russia will enter another cold war, but in reality, we already are. We quietly fight numerous proxy wars, Russia opposes every thing the US or NATO does, and in turn get pounded by sanctions.
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