The Instigator
Brandon93
Pro (for)
Losing
12 Points
The Contender
JustCallMeTarzan
Con (against)
Winning
18 Points

Should the U.S. Government Substanittially Increase its help to Sub-Sahran Africa

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/3/2008 Category: Education
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,148 times Debate No: 2388
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (10)

 

Brandon93

Pro

Because of this shortage of Doctors and Nurses

in SSA 60% of the people in Sub- Saharan Africa

have H.I.V./ AIDS and they also have Diaherea

which 34% of is cause by dirty/contaminated

water because of the ratio of doctors and nurses

to everyday citizens there are currently not

enough available health care workers to treat

Sub-Saharan Africa's population so because of

this shortage there will not be enough doctors to

help treat the people of SSA who become sick.

The government and also the people of Sub-

Saharan Africa must overcome the fact that

almost 90% of their doctors and nurses are

leaving SSA and going to other places in the

world such as the U.S and the United Kingdom

(U.K.) in these places that they are going to they

can sometimes make up to 150,000 dollars in

U.S. currency as compared to the dollar or two

that they would make in Sub-Saharan Africa if

they stayed there. Also some people are going to

SSA but not to help out but to go to College there

because SSA has some of the best Medical

Schools in the World as said by Professor Brian

Roper whom is the Vice Chancellor of the

London Metropolitan University but even with the

best medical schools they are still leaving right

after college for more money elsewhere.

Even if you are a doctor or nurse in SSA you still

have to overcome challenges if you stay because

there aren't enough roads in SSA to be able to

have vaccines and other medicines brought/

shipped in. They must also overcome the fact

even if any money from banks or governments is

sent to Sub-Saharan Africa it is usually spent on

other things such as buying an animated

character which is what they did with the 4

million dollars we (US) sent to SSA. They say

that it is to inform people about HIV but most

people in SSA do not have a television to watch

this character so a vast majority of this money is

not spent on the people as it should be. My plans

to solve this problem are as follows and they are

that I think we should expand the budget

ceilings of loans from the big 3 which are the

"World Bank", the "International Monetary Fund",

and the "U.S. Government of Foreign Aid/ U.S.

Treasury, this would allow more money to flow

into SSA.
JustCallMeTarzan

Con

I identify the crux of your argument as the following statement. There are basically two ideas here - First that money is not being spent as it should be, and second that the budget ceilings of the "Big 3" should be raised.

"...a vast majority of this money is not spent on the people as it should be. My plans to solve this problem are as follows and they are that I think we should expand the budget ceilings of loans from the big 3 which are the "World Bank", the "International Monetary Fund", and the "U.S. Government of Foreign Aid/ U.S. Treasury, this would allow more money to flow into SSA."

First, your analysis of the end result of the money is correct - namely that it is NOT being spent on the people it should be. However, this is not a result of lack of infrastructure like roads and telecommunications. Granted, there is a lot of money being wasted through those avenues, but the vast majority of the money is wasted because of the loan conditions the World Bank and IMF attach to their money.

Second - the notion that the budget caps on US expenditures via the WB, IMF, and USFGA/USTD should be expanded is completely and unilaterally incorrect. They should be lowered or eliminated. Here's why:

1. As we agreed above, the money is not getting where it needs to go - this is the fault of the people in charge at the WB, IMF, and USFGA/USTD that think a Western philosophy is the solution in Africa. They favor top-down solution, while what's needed is a bottom-up solution.

2. Historically, the amount of aid to Africa from the US has been doubled once before - and conditions actually got WORSE. What happened was that there was more money for the governments of these SSA countries to misuse on things like their military or improving the conditions and benefits of a small elite few in power.

3. The conditions attached to these loans retard development, not advance it. Structural Adjustment Policies (SAP's - yes... ironic) often involve cutting spending on social programs and opening markets to free trade. Obviously, cutting spending on social programs reduces the amount of health care available to the people. This also drives down the wages of government-employed doctors. Opening markets to free trade is all well and good, as long as you aren't doing things like exporting cotton and importing shirts. Unfortunately, many SSA countries are doing just that - exporting raw materials and importing finished products.

My solutions are as follows (I actually already had a debate on this, so I'm using my solutions from there...)

1) Loan money to individuals - mostly WOMEN. Women are more likely to use capital for activities like education, improvement of the community, and farming. Men, on the other hand, are most likely to invest the money in some way to try to make MORE money, such as a business or market investment. In an impoverished economy, these ventures usually fail.

2) Educating the populace is important, but it is being done backwards at the moment. Many new schools are being built, but the students in them are mostly male. This isn't a case of a 60/40 split - it's more like 80/20 or worse. Educating the female population does two things - first, it creates a larger educated workforce, and second, it DECREASES the fertility rate of a country. The education of women can reduce the fertility rate (children per woman) by 2/3 or more. This controls population growth and also reduces the workload of the woman in the family (the woman is traditionally the homebuilder - the man is working in a city much of the time and sending money back).

3) Incentives should be given to companies that move factories and other businesses to the developing world with the EXPLICIT PURPOSE of returning portions of their product to the country. This could be in the form of reduced tariffs on the goods that were exported. Doing this allows for cotton from one country to be processed in a textile factory IN THAT COUNTRY and returned to the market in the country. This is the basis for economic independence.

To reiterate - the IMF and World Bank have no business providing financial aid to impoverished governments - The Grameen Bank's microfinance model is much better - Western SAP's have no business telling developing countries how to develop - A Bottom --> Up approach is needed.
Debate Round No. 1
Brandon93

Pro

Thank you for taking me on in a Debate.

Ok first off you say to give the money to women what are these women going to do with that money since there arent enough roads and most women there have 2-3 kids and they also do not have any cars there usually.

Second how are you going to educate these women since most of them already have kids because they are forced to have sex with guys that they do not know and second how are they going to get to these schools ecspecially since most of them are very far away from the places that need them.

Third how would you be able to know that this money that you are talking about would be used on the people and not on other things as is the money that we are sending to them currently and second most of their governments in SSA are not able to support this money from tariffs coming into their country.

SSA-Sub-Saharan Africa

Oh and um sorry about the double spacing it was from a debate that I had and I was just copying and pasting.
JustCallMeTarzan

Con

>>"Ok first off you say to give the money to women what are these women going to do with that money since there aren't enough roads and most women there have 2-3 kids and they also do not have any cars there usually."

What are these women going to do with the money? Well, historically, it's been shown in Bangladesh and some of the surrounding countries that when they receive money from the Grameen bank they put it to use for the good of their community. You see these women doing things like buying a breeding pair of goats and making more goats to sell to the community. These goats provide meat, milk, and labor to the community. None of this presumes roads exist. This model exists in Bangladesh at this very moment, and the company is actually quite successful - they've been making a handsome profit, as well as helping develop the world: their revenue is measured in BILLIONS of taka (the currency of Bangladesh)(http://en.wikipedia.org...). Other times, the women of the community will use this money to buy things like grain so they have more time to invest in community services instead of harvesting grain to make bread. Putting forth the initial money for education (building a school, getting books, etc...) is also something that is done with Grameen-like funding.

>>"Second how are you going to educate these women since most of them already have kids because they are forced to have sex with guys that they do not know and second how are they going to get to these schools especially since most of them are very far away from the places that need them."

This is highly implausible - the fertility rate in Africa is very HIGH - many instances of forced sexual encounter end in miscarriage or forced abortion, especially in the developing world. With a high fertility rate, women are often forced to make a painful choice about which of their children to feed. Doesn't sound like the unwanted children from a rape.

Furthermore, this business about the schools is quite simply erroneous - these schools are not far away from the children. Sure, the institutionalized, government schools in major cities are far away from the rural communities that make up much of African society, but the most effective schools are the ones IN small communities.

The key here is not to provide money to send these children to a far away school - the idea is to build a school that they can get to for free.

>>"Third how would you be able to know that this money that you are talking about would be used on the people and not on other things as is the money that we are sending to them currently and second most of their governments in SSA are not able to support this money from tariffs coming into their country."

Apparently you did not read most of my argument. The Grameen bank does NOT loan to governments - it loans to individuals, which is what I advocated in the first place. When the money is given to the PEOPLE, it is used FOR the PEOPLE.

I suggest you re-read my initial argument - all of your points simply regurgitate ideas that I have already provided an answer to. You are supposed to be arguing that the government should increase its monetary support to Sub-Saharan Africa. You are simply providing me with cannon fodder, especially by reintroducing notions I have already answered.
Debate Round No. 2
Brandon93

Pro

Exactly I know what you said but I would like for you to go into greater detail so that I can better understand what you are debating about and what YOU propse to do about it.
JustCallMeTarzan

Con

I've gone into sufficient depth to make my point. The only thing that remains is for small details in the implementation of this broad bottom-up solution. I clearly showed that the current African aid model is not working, and that we have previously expanded the funding as you suggest, to not only no avail, but to a detriment of the status quo. I also showed a solution to the problem that involves eliminating the immense amount of money we waste this way AND is currently solving the problems we're wasting money trying to solve.

You have not given me any substantiative arguments to refute - only regurgitated information I already provided and gave me cannon fodder instead of counterargument.

My points stand with no need for clarification.
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by JustCallMeTarzan 9 years ago
JustCallMeTarzan
Lol - much thanks to cooperman for providing evidence of what I didn't have data on hand for. I had a course last semester over specifically this set of ideologies - a 300-level course usually isn't wrong, but I don't have my notebook or textbooks here to back up my assertions with references...
Posted by Cooperman88 9 years ago
Cooperman88
Con easily wins because the aff doesn't do any work at all in the last two speeches. But if you are going to start debating this topic soon, then I would suggest you actually do some research. And if what you presented here is your research, then you had better find some credible research. I got back from Zambia, which is part of sub-saharan africa, four days ago. I believe it was the pro that said women are forced to sleep with men. I have to believe you made that up. I can't think of any credible resource that would give you that information. If you are talking about the "outstanding number of rapes" that happen there, then you had better look up the number of rapes that happen here in america, and compare them. You will be suprised. Not only that, but the road systems there aren't great, but they aren't horrible either. They provide adequate enough transportation to wherever they need to go. People there are accustomed to walking long distances. And yes, many don't have a car, but they take buses which are extremely cheap. If they are in the bush, then the government is already working on getting a school there, if there isn't a school there already. Do some actual research. Otherwise I would be surprised if you ever win a round.
Posted by JustCallMeTarzan 9 years ago
JustCallMeTarzan
PS - please type your argument into the space, or at least format it so it's not double spaced and justified - that's kind of a pain to read.
Posted by Jokerdude 9 years ago
Jokerdude
This year is going to be so terrible because it will be counterplan galore
Posted by fresnoinvasion 9 years ago
fresnoinvasion
next years is

Resolved: The United States federal government should substantially increase alternative energy incentives in the United States.

i think this years is better. but who knows, once more info comes out my position might change.
Posted by wingnut2280 9 years ago
wingnut2280
High school policy debaters have been putting this up since this sites inception. You should pick challenging topics instead of ones that your coaches have blocks on. I was always sick of my topic by December when I was in High School.
Posted by Brandon93 9 years ago
Brandon93
No its not our debate isnt until Thursday for this topic.

Does anyone know what next years debate topic is and where I can find it???
Posted by Jokerdude 9 years ago
Jokerdude
Lol this is last years old high school debate topic
10 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Jamcke 8 years ago
Jamcke
Brandon93JustCallMeTarzanTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by flor 9 years ago
flor
Brandon93JustCallMeTarzanTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by crazypenguin 9 years ago
crazypenguin
Brandon93JustCallMeTarzanTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by batman_is_dumb 9 years ago
batman_is_dumb
Brandon93JustCallMeTarzanTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
Brandon93JustCallMeTarzanTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by padfo0t 9 years ago
padfo0t
Brandon93JustCallMeTarzanTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by Brandon93 9 years ago
Brandon93
Brandon93JustCallMeTarzanTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by Crust89 9 years ago
Crust89
Brandon93JustCallMeTarzanTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by JustCallMeTarzan 9 years ago
JustCallMeTarzan
Brandon93JustCallMeTarzanTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by Cooperman88 9 years ago
Cooperman88
Brandon93JustCallMeTarzanTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03