The Instigator
suumerbee
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Ragnar
Pro (for)
Winning
8 Points

Should the US have mandatory military DRAFT/conscriptions? for whom?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Ragnar
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/8/2013 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,478 times Debate No: 32220
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (6)
Votes (2)

 

suumerbee

Con

why should the u.s. have mandatory military DRAFT/conscriptions?
Ragnar

Pro

As confirmed in the comments section, CON shall be arguing against the whole system, to include the current Selective Service System (1). I shall thus be defending the existence of the system, without agreeing with each and every use of it; as much as Con may seek to prove the system has been too often misused to continue. The system is much like keeping a weapon in your home for self defense, that you hope to never have to use, but still keep oiled.


As was inquired elsewhere on this site (2), both men and women should be required to resister. This is however not the system, for strange reasons of politics. Most counter arguments to keep women separate from it, are demeaning to them; as even men with the worst disabilities are required to register. While the system should apply to all people within the defined age bracket, it currently applies to all men in a non-discriminatory way: even disabled people and aliens, are brought together in their concession of patriotism by signing up.

In speaking of the draft during Vietnam, Noel Koch a former speechwriter for president Nixon and current supporter of president Obama, wrote "The draft shattered class distinctions. It mixed high school dropouts with college graduates, rich with middle class and poor" (3). He went on to say "Class lines blurred and so did racial lines. The military did more to advance the cause of equality in the United States than any other law, institution or movement. Not for nothing did 'Bro' come into common usage in the Vietnam era."

While the draft was ugly, without it for so long now we are arguably more divided a people than even before civil war. Many politicians send us to bloody conflicts in a seemingly carefree manner, since if it goes bad their children will not be at risk of service. Some even insult military service claiming it is exclusively for the under-educated, while voting to send soldiers to Iraq without body armor (John Kerry).

The draft not only helped get us out of Vietnam by way of encouraging protests against an unjust war, but it also helped keep the nuclear option out of the hands of men like general Curtis LeMay who wanted to nuke Vietnam (4), and our ability to raise enough ground troops instead helped stop that from happening.

Sources:
(1) http://www.sss.gov...
(2) http://www.debate.org...
(3) http://www.washingtonpost.com...
(4) http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk...
Debate Round No. 1
suumerbee

Con

i think that the U.S. should let the people decide if they want to go to the military or not.
Ragnar

Pro

Generially it is a volenteer army, in large part thanks to president Nixon. However as the future is unpredictable we maintain the SSS (Selective Service System), as a low cost safty net in case events force us into bringing back the draft. It in essence follows the logic that it is better to have something and not need it, than to later need it and not have it.

In addition to unifying the country as I proved in Round 1, even the current inactive draft helps legitamize Undocumented Immigrants (1) should they wish to remain in the USA permanently. I can find no news stories or reports of anyone being deported for registering, but legal immigrants wishing to become citizens are sometimes weighted on the Good Moral Character clause, based on having filed it (2). Merely by having the SSS we can determine if an interested new member of our democracy, is interested in supporting us or at least obeying the most easy to follow rules.


Can you really imagine no emergency that would warrent the need to rapidly expand our fighting force? Remember WWII, and the needed sacrifice to prevent global genocide.


Sources:
(1) http://www.sss.gov...
(2) http://www.jessenlaw.com...
Debate Round No. 2
suumerbee

Con

i know that people want to have their say in what they want to do all im saying is that the U.S. military should let the people choose what they want to do for themselves.
Ragnar

Pro

Why should they have a say?

Within the confines of this argument, the draft has been established as a healthy thing (good sources, and lack of counter points against it).

The miltiary provides job skills, teaches those from lower class families how they can go to college, ensures an education, gives wonderful travel opertunities, and improves median health levels. In the USA where 35.7% of adults are obese (1), the draft would solve much of our health care burden by getting many of those sufferers into peak physical condition.

Just look at how well off countries like Isreal are, where concription is mandatory. The USA should do the same, for the good of the country, and for the clear benifit to its citizens.


Sources:
(1) https://www.cypanthers.org...


Note: The above argument has been intentionally weakened to give Con something to target.
Debate Round No. 3
suumerbee

Con

suumerbee forfeited this round.
Ragnar

Pro

No further comments.
Debate Round No. 4
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Ragnar 4 years ago
Ragnar
Right now it runs the risk of becoming an Argument By Assertion, which is a type of fallacy.

Your best way to win this, will be by finding information which proves the draft and the SSS (the system the draft uses) are harmful in various ways. My first link includes the annual cost of it, if you multiply that by the years we've been at peace, you may be able to prove not funding it could have paid off our national debt or some such (maybe not our current national debt, but there's something good it could have paid for).

During Vietnam there were reports of draftees shooting our own medics, to end missions early (if used, you'll need to find a source to back it... even a blog post, but ideally something from a .gov or .edu site).

Also you could counter my assertion that the draft unified us, by pointing out flaws in how the GI housing grants were applied (while all returning soldiers could get them, the government actually lowered housing values for any neighborhood with non-whites present).

Also if you spotted where my argument has a ring of BS to it, you can call fallacy against those points. Even without knowing the name of the fallacies I've commited, you can still point them out. (Yes, I layered a couple fallacies in intentionally, trying to be sporting about this).
Posted by suumerbee 4 years ago
suumerbee
ok what do you think about what i have said then?
Posted by William.Burnham 4 years ago
William.Burnham
If he doesn't, I'd be interested in this debate also.
Posted by suumerbee 4 years ago
suumerbee
i think that we should have a say in what we want to do
Posted by suumerbee 4 years ago
suumerbee
all
Posted by Ragnar 4 years ago
Ragnar
Con, is your argument that the US should have none at all, or none at all in our current state of the world? Or perhaps that the legal filling out the draft card for adult males should be revoked?

I can try debating almost any side of this, but I need a sign of good faith that you will login again first.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by imabench 4 years ago
imabench
suumerbeeRagnarTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by Smithereens 4 years ago
Smithereens
suumerbeeRagnarTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: forfeit+lack of case.