The Instigator
debaterjake
Pro (for)
Winning
28 Points
The Contender
Merlingazo
Con (against)
Losing
9 Points

Should the United States withdraw from the United Nations?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/9/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,149 times Debate No: 185
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (10)
Votes (13)

 

debaterjake

Pro

The United States must withdraw from the UN. The United Nations is an organization that seeks to destroy the ultimate sovereignty of the United States. There are 2 main reasons why this is a bad thing.

First, the UN isn't a US friendly organization. Former UN Secretary General Kofi Annon, said that Cuba is a nation that the world could learn from. Is Cuba anything like what the United States should become? I don't think so. Also, the US has a Constitution that proclaims everyone to have unalienable rights ordained by God, but in the United Nations convent on civil and political rights, the UN claims that rights are given by governments. If that is true, then any government has the ability to take those rights away. If governments can take away rights, then soon there will be no rights at all. In fact, the UN Convent on Civil and Political Rights even says that every right is given only as allowed by law. That is the same phrase that followed each right in the Soviet Constitution. Just looking at the Soviet Union, it is clear that if rights are conditional upon the government then rights won't last very long.

Second, the UN usurps the people's ability to govern for themselves. When Congress, the President, or anyone else in the U.S. government makes a decision, normally they are responsible to the people who elected them. However, when a body of individual representatives from around the world begin to impose restrictions on individual nations, then the people of that nation have no say in what happens. While the UN hasn't been as powerful as other trans-national organizations, it certainly seeks to achieve that point. Look at the European Union, they have complete control over the member nations. In fact, recently, the EU imposed cow emission standards (because cows supposedly cause global warming) on all its member nations, including the UK, which because it is an island doesn't have to worry about cow emissions like other EU countries. Yet even in the face of complete contempt by the British people, they still have to follow such a standard, and can do nothing about it. This kind of usurpation of sovereignty would not be good for the people of the United States.

So clearly the US should no longer be a part of the United Nations. It is an organizations that takes away the ability of U.S. citizens to direct the path of the United States
Merlingazo

Con

Pulling the United States out of the United Nations would be nothing more than thrusting the United States into an isolationist state, which all rational sides of the political arena agree would be bad for business. Let's break down the reasons the United States should not drop out of the UN: we started it and it never looks good to drop out of an organization you started, it is the largest international political body in the world, it gives a political avenue for discussion, bolsters the rights of the dependents, is structured around the wellbeing of the United States.

First of all, we started the United Nations in 1945 to replace the League of Nations (also our idea), and to back out of an organization with the international prestige the UN now has simply because we feel tread upon would make the U.S. look like self indulgent cowards. We are currently having enough trouble worldwide with our America is better than you mentality, and to drop out of an organization that fosters conversation between us and those we look down on would be more ammo to use against us. Dropping out of the United Nations would look as bad as dropping out of NATO because we did not support their Serbian and Croatian military actions, that we felt we didn't have an adequate say in how our military was being used. The bottom line is that we set up the governing rules for both of these organizations and to now turn around and say we don't like how it's working so we quit, it would simply be bad decorum.

This leads directly into my next point, that the United Nations is structured to benefit the United States. I mean let's look at our power within this international community versus say Cuba, a nation you mentioned in your previous statement. Cuba really has very little authority in the UN, predominantly in thanks to the hierarchical manner in which we (and the other western powers) set it up to begin with. There is no doubt that the 7 permanent members of the Security Council run the entire assembly and while leaders like Kofi Annnan occasionally do speak out against us, it often falls on deaf ears and carries little to no actual authority.

Lastly, it is our stated national mission to give a voice to the people, and if we are going to make that statement, we should at least back it up in the half hearted manner in which we are by recognizing the United Nations has a place in the world. I mean this is really the only voice for nations that cannot afford the clout that we so enjoy. Issues like global warming, population control, regional struggles, famine; they are all addressed by the United Nations and the United States, as the most dominant nation on earth should at least be an involved party. If nothing else, the United Nations is the United States way of giving charity to the rest of the world.

Now, I am not going to debate whether the United Nations is an effective governing body for international politics; I mean they never get anything done and I do agree that the United States doesn't need them, but I also need to reiterate that this organization is founded to benefit the U.S. and to drop out of it would be a dangerous international move (not to mention impossible, the U.S. population would never support such a move).
Debate Round No. 1
debaterjake

Pro

Let's begin Round 2...

There were really four main arguments brought up by Merlingazo:
1. A US withdraw would lead to isolationism.
2. It would bad for the US in the international community to withdraw.
3. The UN gives the US international power.
4. The UN gives a voice to small nations.

Before I respond to each of these arguments, I would like to point out that Merlingazo never responded to the points I made about why the UN was bad, nor did he compare his reasons why the UN is good to my reasons why the UN is bad.

So let's begin with Merlingazo's first argument, that the a US withdraw would lead to isolationism. I have two main responses to this.
1. The United States doesn't need the UN to be engaged in the world. The U.S. is the foremost super power in the world, if we want to be engaged in world affairs we will be. Besides, all the UN does for international discussion is create a place where nothing gets done. I know Merlingazo said he didn't want to debate the effectiveness of the UN, but if it can't get anything done, then how does it engage the US in the world? Merlingazo himself said the US doesn't need the UN, and that's the simple truth.
2. There are other international bodies that the United States is a part of. There is NATO, the World Trade Organization, the International Criminal Police Organization, there is the world bank, and any number of other organizations.

The second reason to stay in the UN was that it would give the US a bad image in the world if we withdrew. To this I have three responses.
1. How much worse can our image get? The US is already viewed around the world as whatever you could think of... but how much worse would withdrawing from the UN make our image?
2. Our interventionist policies create our negative image. It isn't that we are too withdrawn from the world that creates our negative image, it is that we are too involved. The United States has historically held that we have a right to intervene anywhere we feel fit, regardless of what others think. We do that all over the world today. You name it, we're doing something there regardless of the UN. From Iraq, to the 49th parallel, to our military bases in Germany, we are continuously intervening around the world.
3. We should look to Americans first. Sure our image in the world is important, but if our international image comes at the expensive of American's freedoms and rights, then it isn't worth it. America must always come first and so far Merlingazo hasn't denied that UN does trample our freedom as Americans.

Let's move on to the third argument. Merlingazo said that the UN gives the US international power, I have two responses.
1. This is a contradiction. Merlingazo said in his last paragraph that the US does not need the United Nations, and that's so true. The US doesn't the UN to give them any international power. We would probably have more power outside the UN.
2. The UN doesn't do anything meaningful. Is there a single instance where the UN has actually accomplished anything for the United States at all? No there really isn't a single example.

The fourth and final argument brought up by Merlingazo was that the UN gives a voice to small nations, to this I have three responses.
1. There is No Voice. Merlingazo himself said that small nations like Cuba don't really have much voice in the UN. Ultimately, what does the UN give to small nations, other than a place to talk about issues and make resolutions that are never acted upon?
2. The US can, and does, give charity outside the UN. The United Nations isn't the only place the US can go to help small nations. In fact, we do more outside the United Nations for small nations that the entire of the UN does for any of those nations. (Besides, the US is the single largest contributor to the UN making up more than 1/4 of its entire budget. If we weren't in the UN we could use the money even more efficiently to help small nations.)
3. Big enough issues lead to a voice. If a small nation really does have a major crisis on their hands, it isn't the United Nations that helps them, but instead individual countries and alliances. Look at the Darfur region in Sudan, the UN hasn't done anything there, instead all the meaningful help has come from private companies, individual nations, and the AU, not the UN.

Beyond all of these issues however, the reason that we should leave the United Nations still boils down to the fact that the UN wants to take power from sovereign states like the US, destroy our values, our constitutions, and promote their own agenda. The UN seeks to take away the voice of average Americans and push a internationalist agenda on the U.S.

Sure we could look into the corruption of the UN, and the terrorist ties within the UN, and other specifics like that, but what must be realized is that the UN does not have the best interest of Americans in mind, it seeks to destroy the sovereignty and independence of our great land.
Merlingazo

Con

Merlingazo forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
debaterjake

Pro

Since the other guy forfeited, does this mean I win the round? Because it certainly would in a real debate.

Regardless, I hope some of you guys out there understand the importance of the United States protecting our sovereignty and doing away with out membership in an organization that accomplishes nothing.
Merlingazo

Con

Merlingazo forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by clsmooth 9 years ago
clsmooth
Funny. "They don't like it." Whatever. The U.S. exists to do the UN's dirty work. It started with Korea. It continues with Iran. The U.S. gets to be the bad guy, doing the dirty work of the internationalists at the UN, meanwhile their hands are clean... And we drift closer to World Government.
Posted by camdamage 9 years ago
camdamage
We might as well. Everytime we go before them we tell them what we're going to do and if they don't like it we give'em the finger.
Posted by Rinaldanator 9 years ago
Rinaldanator
I did not vote for any of the people in the UN or did any other american. They have no right to tell us what we can do. US out of UN.
Posted by owensr 9 years ago
owensr
The United state is the largest contributer to the UN in both money and man power. If we withdrew the UN would almost collapse in on itself. I mean if the USA has this much invested in something I'm sure we have some power over it. There are plenty of reason for the US to be a part of the UN. Mostly i would think so we have control over it in the first place....
Posted by clsmooth 9 years ago
clsmooth
DebaterJake is right on the money. The U.N. is anti-freedom. There is no constitutional basis for the surrender of our sovereingty to socialist world government organizations like the WTO, the IMF, the World Bank, and the UN. Let's get out of them all, and NATO, too, while we're at it. Peace, friendship, and trade with all nations -- entangling alliances with none.

As for the Australian who said it would be "international suicide" if we left the UN... Oh, really? You'd rather have us in the UN and constantly invading other countries, or out and minding our own business. You can have your One World Socialism, and we can still be friends with you and trade with you. But our forefathers came here to establish a constitutional republic, not World Government and Empire.
Posted by debaterjake 9 years ago
debaterjake
Hey maqpie, I'd love to tell you about my position on legalizing drugs... maybe I should debate that next.
Posted by magpie 9 years ago
magpie
Confine me if I ever presume to debate Jake. I'm sure his parents are proud of him. He should be thankful for the griving him. I'm curious, however of his position on legalized drugs.

This is not to take anything away from merlingazo, but I disagree with his views on the value of the UN.
I agree with Phil. Great debate!
Posted by Phil 9 years ago
Phil
This is one of the best debates I've seen on Debate.org so far. Very good arguments on both sides.
Posted by bobsatthepub 9 years ago
bobsatthepub
from an Australian point a majority of people here have a strong dislike for American politics already. Dropping out of the UN would be international suicide.
Posted by Harlan 9 years ago
Harlan
I agree with the con side of this, but for dome different reasons. Id o not think it necessary at all for the US to have "Ultimate sovereighnty", and it is not at all surprising that the Universal declaration of Human Rights would word it to pertain to law, as the UN has nothing to do with god and philosophy and spirituality, they are an organization of nations, the only purpose of the UDHR is to influence what laws are passed.

Of course it restricts their right to govern for themselves, it was out after WWII, so there would never again be an incident like that. Should Hitler have been able to "govern for himself"?

The UN is largely necessary, it brings civilization as we know it to a larger level, rules that competing nations will follow, no linger tribes
13 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
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