The Instigator
SouthernPride12334
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
TBR
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points

Should the confederate flag not be allowed in schools...

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
TBR
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/9/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 815 times Debate No: 73176
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (13)
Votes (1)

 

SouthernPride12334

Con

I think the confederate flag should be allowed in schools and other places. The first thing people immedaitly jump to when they see that flag is racist, but most people do not mean for the flag to stand for racism. Most people like me fly that flag to show that we come from the south it is not a hate thing, it is basically saying that is where people come from.
TBR

Pro

Let"s get some clarity of what is at issue first. Generally this issue centers on use of the "Confederate Battle Flag" used during the civil war, primarily by troops under General Lee of the confederacy. The flag has been applied to shirts, hats, and other clothing items that schools may or may not "ban". The legality of banning this, and other controversial or distracting clothing items has been tried and precedent set. School districts are well within their rights to ban clothing items that bear this flag and symbol. [2]

The reasoning behind banning the symbol has to do with disruption, and inciting racial tensions. That all people accept the meaning of this symbol in the same was as con is either naive or supercilious. The flag has deep and conflicting meanings based on the viewer. This is the very basis of the disruption it has caused at schools and other public areas.

The symbol, born under the context of a war at least somewhat fought over issues of slavery, cannot be reformed so easily for those know it as a symbol of oppression and dehumanization. Simply saying "That not how I see the symbol" is dismissive of how others view the same symbol, bring me right back to - con is either naive or supercilious in his personal definition of the meaning of the symbol.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[2] http://legalclips.nsba.org...
Debate Round No. 1
SouthernPride12334

Con

NO, stupid people will take that flag in a bad way when it means your from the south I am not racist but I have the confederate flag on my wall. Because my great great great great great uncle was Robert E Lee does that make me racist if it does then you need to get your head checked.
TBR

Pro

The problem lies not in what one person may believe the flag symbolises, but how it is preceived by a great many, and if that preception is valid and may further lead to interfearance with the proper functioning of the school.

As we can see from this polling data, it is not just black studentes that have a negative reaction to the flag, it is the plurality of both white and black.

This is not hard to understand, as the flag has both recent history as a raciest symbol.


But a historic use as a symbol of oppression


The desire to reform the meaning of symbols is understandable. Even this verbage has been used before.

The simple fact that you personally want the symbol to be accepted, and mean what you want it to mean doesn’t make it so.

Debate Round No. 2
SouthernPride12334

Con

I read about a school in 2012 that did not allow a shirt with the confederate flag on it, yet they allow its ok to be gay t shirts.
They cant ban one thing and allow somthing like it in a dffrent versian.
TBR

Pro

Rebuttal

The first thing people immedaitly jump to when they see that flag is racist, but most people do not mean for the flag to stand for racism.

Unsubstantiated.

Most people like me fly that flag to show that we come from the south it is not a hate thing, it is basically saying that is where people come from.

Your interpretation of the symbol is not germane to the debate question.

NO, stupid people will take that flag in a bad way when it means your from the south

The plurality of people who see it as a negative symbol would disagree.

I am not racist but I have the confederate flag on my wall. Because my great great great great great uncle was Robert E Lee does that make me racist if it does then you need to get your head checked

I am not saying you are or are not a racist. I don’t have that information. I am saying you are attempting to wear a symbol that is closely related, and perceived as, a symbol of racism, discrimination and oppression. That this is true makes it in the interest of schools to ban the wearing of this symbol in order to maintain the environment for its designed goal.

I read about a school in 2012 that did not allow a shirt with the confederate flag on it, yet they allow its ok to be ga y t shirts.
They cant ban one thing and allow somthing like it in a dffrent versian.

Aside from being completely unsubstantiated, I fail to see how this changes the issue at hand. If the “gay t-shirt” were causing disruptions, or inc1ting violence, then the school could have “banned” the wearer from continuing to wear it.

Debate Round No. 3
SouthernPride12334

Con

SouthernPride12334 forfeited this round.
TBR

Pro

Con has forfeited the last round.

I extend each of my uncontested arguments.
Debate Round No. 4
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by TBR 2 years ago
TBR
Opulence - I would take the debate again if you like.
Posted by Opulence 2 years ago
Opulence
Sad state of affairs. Con I hope you can pick up some points about how I'd tackle this & subsequently you can up your game.

Pro attacks Con as naive or supercilious [ad hominem], says in effect one's persons emotions override another persons emotions[argumentum ad passiones]. Pro references a study saying a portion of the public find the flag offensive (a portion of what public...a portion that were fed what propaganda? Was this study taken in school directly after they basically watched a 45 minute video about how the 'losers' of the war were so bad?) [Con, here you dispute the source]

I did think the flag was a "raciest symbol" on this one website...but that's got nothing to do with this debate & children might be watching. [lighten the mood...because that typo was hilarious]

On Round 3...Pro informs Con why the symbol is banned
The question one needs to ask is....... why can the school not maintain the environment for its designed goals. [inject a possibility that you know you can rebuke]. Is it because the offended students create disruption? Why is it acceptable for a person to make a "song and a dance" about the confederacy flag. Yet if someone was to make a "song and a dance" about a gay shirt they are deemed intolerance.

Is Pro seriously advocating MOB rule? Is Pro seriously advocating the schools ability to ostracize someone because they are the minority?

I'm voting pro, but I would be interested to see how you'd deal with my points
Posted by Varrack 2 years ago
Varrack
@Con saying that "you read about a school in 2012" is anecdotal evidence, which is logically fallacious.
Posted by TBR 2 years ago
TBR
Well... If/when you make it back to this debate, I would offer you some help on how to organize your debate better. Fact is, personally I disagree intensely with use of this flag, but I could put together a... much more convincing argument for it, and show you a little about how to debate on the issues that are important to you.
Posted by TBR 2 years ago
TBR
You on?
Posted by TBR 2 years ago
TBR
You still on-line?
Posted by TBR 2 years ago
TBR
OK. Some points on your story.

1) It, oddly enough, has this quote "the shirts included the slogan 'heritage not hate.'. I would have used that in my debate as an example relating to the last flag image.
2) There is NO mention of "gay t-shirt" in the referenced story. In the comments, another unsubstantiated clam is made about it, with NO reference.
3) It seems, again, the story referenced backs the legality of banning shirts etc.
Posted by TBR 2 years ago
TBR
You should have included a reference in the debate. As I said, however, it is immaterial to the debate.
Posted by SouthernPride12334 2 years ago
SouthernPride12334
www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3018890/posts

look it up
Posted by SouthernPride12334 2 years ago
SouthernPride12334
I'm just getting warmed up.
Get wrecked!
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Varrack 2 years ago
Varrack
SouthernPride12334TBRTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro used the only sources, and Con FF'd, thus losing conduct. Con made no arguments but used opinion and anecdotal evidence, which doesn't suffice. Only Pro made any real argument, which was that it can cause disruption sinceit is a symbol of oppression/racism.