Should the pledge remain in the public school system?
Debate Rounds (4)
I realize that some teachers do teach students what they are saying, but I would argue there's only about a 50/50 chance that you would be lucky enough to have one of them. It might be better if we require teachers to teach students about the pledge, but until we do, I stand by that argument.
Also, while the pledge doesn't specifically say other countries are inferior, most students interpret the pledge to mean that the U.S. is the best country and they will stand by it, again, this could be because of the problem regarding students who are not taught what it means. Some students who are only here for a short period of time are pledging loyalty to a place they are soon to leave and most likely never see again. If nothing else, that seems to make it lose its purpose. And regarding students not here by choice, until they are 18, students go wherever there parents take them. They may like it, or they may not, but they didn't come here because they wanted to, and they shouldn't have to pledge loyalty to it.
Yes, people do divide the country, but something students are required to recite daily in the classroom they must be in is bound to cause controversy, so by giving a strong incentive, it is dividing the country, albeit indirectly.
Here's a fun fact, the founders of this country didn't have any pledge implemented. It didn't come about until the 1892, and that wasn't even the current version. This version was " I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all." There were then 3 changes, mostly just making it more specific, before the current version was implemented in 1954. So I would say removing it is far from a desecration towards the founders. If anything it is supporting what they created, Many people agree vowing to a flag or country goes against the spirit of the foundation of the country. It also goes against our freedom of speech.
So yes, I would go up to a soldier and tell them I am using the rights they have been fighting to protect. We have the freedom to disregard our flag if we so choose because of those soldiers.
Finally, I would like to add one more point. The last line of the pledge says, "with liberty and justice for all" but many would argue that, while we're better than most in that aspect, that is a utopian ideal that certainly does not exist today. Look at gay marriage, of Ferguson Missouri, or an atheist living in Texas. I think many students would prefer not to be told to say things they do not believe about their country.
Legally, the pledge is optional. You do not have to say it or even stand. Teachers also do not have the legal rights to punish you or pressure you into saying it. However, it is rare for a teacher to ever tell you about that right. I have never heard a single teacher say "it is your choice whether or not you want to say the pledge." It is still extremely common for teachers to lecture or discipline students for deciding to exercise that right. Even when that is not the case, students are also susceptible to peer pressure, and while this is a mild form of it, they still feel extremely isolated if they decide to opt out of the pledge.
While I understand it would cause an uproar, having it in the school system also causes controversy. If some students wish to say the pledge, they could say it before school officially begins or even outside the classroom walls. It is not necessary for them to say it during the official school day. There's another minute you could be using to learn, which is the actual purpose of being there.
As stated before, I personally have no opinion on the "one nation under god" line, but it doesn't seem to be worth all the controversy it creates. Since so many people have a problem with it, it seems it could be taken out. People can appreciate their god better through non-school appointed prayer.
And while we hope for justice, freedom, and indivisible part is what we hope for, some still argue we are not doing enough to get to that point. To some, it's a bit like saying, "I want to be a billionaire," then spending a day scrolling through facebook.
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door." -The New Colossus.
America was founded as an asylum- not to discriminate another's homeland.
Thirdly, the radical elimination of controversy is not always a good solution. People should know that by what happened in the civil war. The extremes are not justified here.
I am heavily set, along with many others, I preserving such things. If I may take a famous quote. "We will not go quietly into the night! We will not vanish without a fight!" I can back my point and will, without hesitation.
To your second argument, I agree, it was not an attempt to discriminate another homeland, but if you read my previous arguments, the founders didn't have a pledge, and I said the pledge doesn't specifically discriminate, but students take it that way when they are not taught the pledge, which is not always the case, but it is common.
I don't understand what you mean by referencing the civil war. Slavery justifiably caused controversy, and it was eventually removed. If anything, that backs up my point. There are less extreme ways of handling the situation, sure, but the basics are still the same. I do not understand what would be extreme about removing the pledge from the official school day. It could be a gradual removal, and it wouldn't have to be banned on school grounds or anything of the sort.
Allow me to restate my alternative. Students who really are saying the pledge because they want to out of respect, patriotism, etc. will absolutely have that right. They could say it before they enter school doors, before the school day starts, or after it ends. At the age when they would usually be told to say it, they will be taught what it means and be told that if they want to say it, they have that right, and it is one of many ways to show patriotism, but not the only one. Every teacher will still have a flag, the only difference will be that they will not be pressured into saying it, and they will be saying it on their own time. If anything, I would say this is more patriotic of students because they will be taking time out of their day to say it, not the school's. Please address any problems/fallacies you find with this idea in your final argument.
I understand that you are heavily set on keeping the pledge in the system, but that is what a debate is for after all. I apologize for offending you in any way during this debate, I assure you it was not my intention. Thank you for accepting it and I look forward to reading your final arguments.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by 4God 1 year ago
|Agreed with before the debate:||-||-||0 points|
|Agreed with after the debate:||-||-||0 points|
|Who had better conduct:||-||-||1 point|
|Had better spelling and grammar:||-||-||1 point|
|Made more convincing arguments:||-||-||3 points|
|Used the most reliable sources:||-||-||2 points|
|Total points awarded:||0||3|
You are not eligible to vote on this debate
This debate has been configured to only allow voters who meet the requirements set by the debaters. This debate either has an Elo score requirement or is to be voted on by a select panel of judges.