The Instigator
Cindela
Pro (for)
Winning
40 Points
The Contender
Brave_Yankee_87
Con (against)
Losing
39 Points

Should there be a National Minimum Wage in the USA?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/20/2007 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,548 times Debate No: 713
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (25)

 

Cindela

Pro

Before I begin my argument, I would like to thank everyone who is reading this and partially judging this. I would also like to thank my opponent for accepting this challenge. I would like to say that at the moment that this debate was posted, my opponent was against a national minimum wage.

I believe that there should be a national minimum wage. If there were no minimum wage, many companies would pay their workers absurdly low rates that no person can live off of. A national minimum wage would ensure that everyone has a chance to earn a living that they can actually live off of. Because of this, we NEED a national minimum wage.

I will only post this one argument, and save the others for later if I need them. Thank you.
Brave_Yankee_87

Con

There should not be a national minimum wage law because of several reasons.

You should not pay someone a set wage when they are clearly not as good or are better that their fellow co-workers. Each individual should be assessed by how well he or she performs at their given job. The minimum wage law has been one of the reasons that costs of goods and products are going up. When you are forced to pay someone a set price per hour, this in turn forces your products to go up in price. When someone sells something, they take into several accounts to set up a price for the item. There is the cost of the goods, the cost of putting it together, the cost of the machinery and the desired profit. When any one of these factors goes up, the end price thus goes up.

Also, when someone goes to work for a job, you usually negotiate how much you are going to work for. Many companies will pay you more than minimum wage, from what I have noticed, and not only that, but you generally get employee benefits, thats right, benefits that aren't shown on your paycheck that others don't receive. If your boss is offering you an unfair share, you don't have to take the job.

In response to what you have to say about companies will pay the individual nothing to work there, you are wrong. A company in order to compete, must be able to provide their products in a timely manner as to beat other companies. If they are unable to have workers to produce the products, they are at a loss in the market. Thus, companies will have to hire people at a rate that they find acceptable.
Debate Round No. 1
Cindela

Pro

<>
Does this mean that you can pay someone an incredibly little amount of money an hour just because they cannot do the job as efficiently as someone else?? What if they have certain disabilities that do not enable them to do the job as well? You do not take this into account. (Each individual should be assessed by how well he or she performs at their given job.) A national minimum wage will prevent this.
<> What about the companies who do not give these bonuses? There are still companies who don't give their employees bonuses.
<> What if this job is the only job that is available for you to take, and without it, you cannot support your family? Let me give an example. You are looking for a job to support your family, and you do not have a formal education. You find a job, but the wages are so low that it would be almost impossible to support your family, but if you tighten the belt, it can be done. This is the only job available, and what choice do you have? You need the money.
<> Again, look at my previous example.

In conclusion, I have refuted all your points, and proven my point to be superior. Thank You.
Brave_Yankee_87

Con

If someone agrees to work for a low amount, that is between the employer and the employee, as I said before, it is an agreement between the two of how much they work and how much they get paid. You do not have to accept a job if they do not pay you what you feel is how much you are worth. A person with disabilities has talents that I am sure that they can find a job that would allow them to capitalize on those talents. We are judging them purely on their handicap and are not looking at them for what they may potentially be able to do. It is up to them to find out what talents suit them best.

Again, if you aren't happy with bonuses that you may or may not be given, you do not have to work there, there are plenty of other jobs out there.
Debate Round No. 2
Cindela

Pro

<>
Again, you are not seeing the fact that if you have no choice, even if the money is less than what you should be paid, you would have to take the job. Again, look at my previous example. That is only one scenario in which someone would be forced to take a job.

<>
What if that someone has no choice in the matter? What if without that job, he/she cannot support himself/herself and his/her family? With a national minimum wage, employers would have to pay their workers a fair wage so that they can support themselves and their family.

Your arguments all assume that the people getting the job have a choice in the matter. However, there are a whole group of people who would not be given a choice. The people below the poverty line also have familys, and they have to support themselves and possibly 2 or 3 others! If they are looking for a job, they will need any job that pays because they need every penny that they can earn! Not all employers give bonuses. Some employers only want money, and will do anything to get it. Including paying employees absurdly low rates. If you were extremely poor, and the job that you are going for pays low rates, you will still take the job because it puts food on the table, even if you have to work a lot more than 8 hours! You would do the job, because without it, your family would go hungry! A Minimum wage would help to stop this. If you are going to work, you would at least have to pay the people who work for you a decent rate, so they can put food on the table, and not have to work incredibly long hours.

In conclusion, my opponent has not shown that having no National Minimum Wage to be better than having one, and therefore I win this debate. My opponent has failed to combat my points, and I have proven all of his points to be immaterial. Thank You
Brave_Yankee_87

Con

You are quite cocky for someone who doesn't even get the last word. If you had paid attention to my first argument you would see why if we had gotten rid of a National Minimum Wage it would easily force prices to go down. You say that I didn't even touch your points, which, if you had paid attention, I did, but yet if you look at your responses to me, you don't even touch on the economical point that I made.

A company can not sell a product for a high price if people are not making the money to purchase that product. The whole idea of a minimum wage is to give people the minimum amount of money that they need to survive. Yet, if that is true, than how come they have to up the minimum wage every several years? Why is it costing more and more to live? I tell you its because of this very minimum wage. When the cost of workers salaries go up, thus the cost of the product also goes up and it takes several years for the effects to be felt for those earning the minimum wage and then the minimum wage is raised again and the cycle repeats.

Banning the minimum wage would drive costs down tremendously. $7.15/hr is ridiculous to be paying someone who works at McDonald's because anybody can flip burgers and dip fries into a deep fryer that beeps when they are done, and has anyone else noticed that since the recent increase in minimum wage the "dollar menu" is now the "dollar and a half menu"?

If you actually understood anything about business you would clearly understand why the minimum wage is harmful. As I have seen from taking Economics, Accounting and Finance, when you have to pay people more, the cost of the product goes up. If you want to make a dollar profit on each item, and suddenly the cost of the worker goes up, the dollar profit is no longer there, and thus to keep that same profit you must raise the entire cost of the product. Understanding these principles would help you to understand why people should work on a per agreement based system where you and your employer agree on a wage.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Cindela 9 years ago
Cindela
>>recent increase in minimum wage the "dollar menu" is now the "dollar and a half menu"?

Are you kidding? If you go to a McDonald's everything on the dollar menu costs a dollar and eight cents including tax. I should know, seeing as I go to McDonald's all the time and my uncle owns a few McDonald's.
Posted by clawki 9 years ago
clawki
A minimum wage actually works most against those that it intends to assist. All products are a portion labor. When that cost goes up, then the costs of those goods go up as well. So those on the lowest end of the spectrum have a more difficult time meeting their basic needs.

Additionally the employee who was already at the "new" minimum wage does not a see a proportional increase in their salary. Therefore they have lost buying power as well. Those who benefit the most from a minimum wage are low skill, low experience, short term worker (particularly students). Workers who are already at the "new" minimum wage have earned it and are additionally employable in other locations.

So should those who are truly trying to survive on the minimum wage be forced to have their standard of living further impacted so that a teenager can get a new video game?

Cheers
Posted by Cindela 9 years ago
Cindela
Is there a reason that the comments have been in my favor, but the votes have not? Just wondering what I am doing wrong.
Posted by Guardian27 9 years ago
Guardian27
I think that Brave Yankee is a little off. Minimum wage really is need. You say that $7.15/hr is rediculous to pay someone who works at McDonalds. That may be true, but if you look at the prices of oil, the dairy industry, and many other areas of day to day life, the need for a minimum wage that people can survive on is greater than ever. It may be easy to make it when it's just yourself living in your own place or at home. However, have you put the thought of families into your opinion?? I'm a proud father of two and I can tell you that $7.15 is BARE MINIMUM to TRY and survive on. I just don't think that you're looking at this from the stance of a young family.
Posted by NSG 9 years ago
NSG
There are two possibilities.

Inelastic: If the raise is small, chances are nothing will happen. There will be no significant benefit to low-wage workers, who STILL won't be able to afford the basics, and it won't affect those with higher wages at all.

Elastic: If the raise is significant, it will result in employers hiring fewer employees and trying to get by on fewer workers. Or else, they will fire their legal employees and replace them with illegal, lower-wage workers. The result will be an increase in unemployment, a decrease in retail sales, a decrease in manufacture and wholesale trade, layoffs of more employees, a general recession, increased poverty, and lower average incomes overall.

Simply put, unless wages are driven by market forces, an increase in wages through artificial means always causes economic problems. And in a time when low-inome, sub-prime borrowers are having trouble making their house payments, the last thing we need is to compund the problem by causing those same low-income people to lose their jobs because employers can't afford to pay their salaries.
25 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by burningpuppies101 8 years ago
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