The Instigator
ams34
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
askbob
Con (against)
Winning
8 Points

Should there be a minimum weight limit for professional models?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
askbob
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/21/2011 Category: Health
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 9,118 times Debate No: 15511
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (2)

 

ams34

Pro

Extremely thin models have a dangerous influence on young girls and women to be their size, and can lead to eating disorders such as anorexia. Many models are under pressure from agents and designers to be thin. As a result, many develop eating disorders such as anorexia nervosa. In the recent past, several models have died as a consequence of eating disorders and a need to be thin. Others turn to drugs in order to fight their body's natural craving for food. Having minimum physical standards would ensure that young girls could not be put under pressure to adopt extreme diets. Such an objective standard would be much better than asking for doctors certificates or having age restrictions, both of which could be got round by dishonest agents.
askbob

Con

My opponent is attempting to portray herself as someone who cares about models as well as younger girls who follow them. However my good audience, do not be fooled! My opponent is attempting to vex you by justifying her socialistic advocation with utilitarianism. Even if utilitarianism was a good excuse for manipulating others (which it is not!), my opponent is incorrect to say that doing so benefits the common good over the norm.

My opponent has not proven nor given any indication that models influence young girls

Statistics on anorexia show that 1 in 200 american women suffer from annorexia (0.5%). Of that 0.5%, 20% die from anorexia or problems due to their anorexia. [Source 1] According to a 2009 US Census report, women comprise 50.8778273% of the population [Source 2] That means that the % of Americans dying from this disease is

0.005*0.2*.508778273*100 = 0.0508778273% of American women die from anorexia

According to the CDC 35.5% of women (excluding those that are pregnant) are obese compared with 32.2% of men. Therefore women are 35.5/32.2 = 10.24845% more likely of being obese than men [Source 3]

According to the CDC over 112,000 deaths a year are caused by obesity [Source 4]

Therefore we can determine through probability that 55.124225% of women die from obesity while 44.875775% of men die from obesity (10.24845% difference)

112,000 * .55124225 = 61,739 women die from obesity according to the CDC

100*(61739/153,399,000[source 2]) = 0.044158697% of women die from obesity

As the voters can clearly see
0.044158697% of women die from obesity
0.0508778273% of American women die from anorexia

There is no statistical difference between the death rates.

THUS if we were to make models fatter (by the converse of the implied logic by my opponent) there would be an increasing number of obese females who would also die.

Therefore even if my opponent's logic (which has no factual backing) were correct, it still wouldn't logically follow that the policy should be enforced by utilitarian standards due to the increasing amount of female obesity deaths.

Sources:
1. http://www.state.sc.us...
2. http://www.census.gov...
3. http://www.cdc.gov... (Page 6)
4. http://www.cdc.gov...
Debate Round No. 1
ams34

Pro

ams34 forfeited this round.
askbob

Con

A shame how when I am the one being challenged, my opponent doesn't bother to finish a round.

extend all arguments

Debate Round No. 2
ams34

Pro

My opponent says that I do not care about models and those who follow them, however, why would I bother to be for a minimum weight limit for professional models if I did not care about them at all?

I am sorry for not providing sufficient evidence in my last argument, but as you can see from the following links that there is infact evidence that young girls are affected by the images of models.
http://parentingteens.about.com...
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu...
http://www.oppapers.com...

My opponent also says that more women die from obesity than anorexia, which is true, but I am not fighting for fat models, I am nearly saying that models should not at a health threatening weight for their own sakes as well as the people who are influenced by them. Models should be required to be a healthy weight based on a case by case standard. (considering height and amount of exercise etc.)

The fashion industry leads opinion and so making a change to the kind of models used will have a big impact. Only a few thousand people will ever attend catwalk shows or buy the incredibly expensive clothes they showcase. However, these include many leading celebrities whose lives are covered in every detail by tabloid magazines read by many millions. And the clothes themselves hugely influence high-street fashions, which in turn often only look good on unhealthily thin girls. Forcing the fashion industry to make changes will therefore ripple through society in a way no other action can do.
askbob

Con

My opponent clearly is an advocate of the fast food and confectionary industry who hopes that by fattening up our models she will gain more revenue for her industry.


http://parentingteens.about.com......
Not a valid source that is evidence for your point

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu......
""Because the health dangers of being overweight are well documented, it's not a bad thing if overweight girls feel encouraged to lose weight. "

There is no link in this study between annorexia and magazine images. Only a desire to lose weight.
http://www.oppapers.com......
Not a valid source that is evident for your point.

My opponent has failed to provide any link between models and the onset of annorexia which provides no reason to make our models fatter. Furthermore, even if there was a link between models and annorexia that showed annorexia was caused by thin models, there is still no proof that making models fatter would not just make our kids fatter and thus cause more people to be obese, and thus cause higher deaths from obesity.

"but I am not fighting for fat models,"

by making the thinnest models fatter, more models will be in the same weight range. To compensate for this models that are currently at this range will have to gain weight until the fattest models decide to become even fatter. This (by the same logic as my opponent) will increase the number of obese females and thus increase the deaths from obesity.
Debate Round No. 3
ams34

Pro

"My opponent clearly is an advocate of the fast food and confectionary industry who hopes that by fattening up our models she will gain more revenue for her industry."
This claim made by my opponent has no grounds or backing to support it.

http://parentingteens.about.com...
This was written by Denise Witmer and her credentials for be found here:http://parentingteens.about.com...
As for it "not being a valid source that is evidence for my point"
the link states that "Advertising in teen magazines and on television typically glamorizes skinny models who do not resemble the average woman. In fact, today's models generally weight 23% less then the average woman.""...Media targeting teenage girls are emphasizing the ideal of thinness as beauty. When you stop and think about the fact that the average height and weight for a model is 5'10" and 110 lbs, and the height and weight for the average woman is 5'4" and 145 lbs, it's easy to see why this creates a tremendous health risk for young girls. "

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu...
My opponent inserts the line that states "Because the health dangers of being overweight are well documented, it's not a bad thing if overweight girls feel encouraged to lose weight." but the next sentance then states, "On the other hand, there may be harmful psychological consequences if girls feel unhappy with their bodies because they don't measure up to unrealistic standards set by underweight fashion models."

The study shows that girls want to lose their weight because of the models in the images. However, these girls may not be obese or fat, but healthy sized girls.

The following link will bring you to Walden Behavoiral Care, a facility near Boston that cares for people with eating disorders.
The link states that "A major reason many people have a negative body image is because of the impact that media have had on our perception of body image.The impact of media and body image is especially prevalent among those who develop anorexia. Media photos and films portray actresses, actors and models as ultra-thin. Young people are especially influenced by those images and perceive them as an ideal."
http://www.waldenbehavioralcare.com...


"..by making the thinnest models fatter, more models will be in the same weight range. To compensate for this models that are currently at this range will have to gain weight until the fattest models decide to become even fatter."

My opponent states that if models are all in the same weight range, then they will have to become fatter. There is no evidence to support this. Although models are in the same weight range, there would be no pressure to become fatter. That is illogical. The pressure would be on models to be better then the rest who are in this healthy weight range.

By making models healthier, it would endorse being a healthy weight, as in not over or under weight. It would encourage those who are affected by media to aspire to be a healthy weight as well.
askbob

Con

The parentingteens about article is not a valid evidence because it provides no statistical evidence regarding a link between models and anorexia.

She also says that today's models weigh 23% less than the average woman, to which i point out that the average woman has gotten significantly larger: "while the average weight for women the same age increased from 140.2 pounds in 1960 to 164.3 pounds in 2002." (http://usgovinfo.about.com...) This is a 17% increase in the average weight which renders those figures statistically insignificant.

Furthermore

My opponents next source is invalid because it also provides no link with anorexia and thin models. It's only finding is that thin models causes girls to want to lose weight and even concus that this will be helpful due to the health issues with being overweight.

The walden behavioral care simply blames the media without any proof. Therefore this source is also invalid.

"Although models are in the same weight range, there would be no pressure to become fatter. That is illogical. The pressure would be on models to be better then the rest who are in this healthy weight range."

By making models fatter it would show the fashion industry's acceptance of bigger models. By my opponent's unsubstantiated claims, bigger models equals bigger women. While it would reduce anorexia it would increase obesity.

America is fat enough as it is without turning our models into porkers.
Debate Round No. 4
ams34

Pro

"By making models fatter it would show the fashion industry's acceptance of bigger models. By my opponent's unsubstantiated claims, bigger models equals bigger women. While it would reduce anorexia it would increase obesity.

America is fat enough as it is without turning our models into porkers."

I am not looking for more fat models, I am asking that models should not be underweight and they should be a healthier, not fatter. The fashion industry would be accepting healthier models, not bigger models. Since models are there to show what the "look" is, a healthier model would promote healthier bodies for all who are affected by the appearence of models. This promotion of a healthier body would encourage others to have healthier bodies as well, reducing anorexia and obesity alike.

All in all, I am asking that models be required to have a healthier body weight for their health, as well as the people who are affected by their looks. Promoting a healthier body weight is something that America really needs.

I'd like to thank my opponent for debating me on this topic.
askbob

Con

My opponent has not provided any sources that link model's weight with annorexia nor has refuted my logic that by producing slightly heavier models, (assuming my opponent's unproved hypothesis is true) we will have slightly heavier females who emulate those models and thus slightly more obese women and thus slightly more deaths from obesity. From a utilitarian standard as my opponent's resolution hinges upon, there is no benefit to be gained statistically by creating a minimum weight for models.
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Vi_Veri 3 years ago
Vi_Veri
The mental disease with the most fatalities is Anorexia.
Posted by askbob 3 years ago
askbob
you challenged me, you better finish this
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by TUF 3 years ago
TUF
ams34askbobTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Via forfeit.
Vote Placed by Cliff.Stamp 3 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
ams34askbobTied
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Total points awarded:31 
Reasons for voting decision: "America is fat enough as it is without turning our models into porkers." - inane way to actually deal with a driver for a mental illness, conduct due to forfeit obviously.